Supercharger - Worth It?

[NMBurb02]

I have steered my used car search toward the 2004-2007 Pontiac Grand Prix with the venerable GM 3800. Some of the models have factory superchargers, which bump the horsepower from 200 to 260 with only a 1-2 mpg dip in fuel economy and not much of a difference in price. Do factory superchargers add significant maintenance/repair headaches or are they a good option to up the fun factor?

And while I have your attention, what sort of things should I look for when viewing and test driving these cars (100-120k miles) before spending my time and money to take them to a mechanic?

 

[jsnyder49090]

the lower intakes leak often as does valve covers the coolant elbows also.The blowers are solid the couplers sometimes make noise but is not that hard to repair a 20.00 part.The transmissions are problematic with higher miles they tend to shift hard when hot but they make a kit to fix and can be installed pretty easily.Look for these issues and service the trans should be good for atleast another 100,000

 

[JHZR2]

When gas goes back over $5 will the 1-2 MPG make a difference?

If you buy the souped up version, can you afford an additional $1k part replacement?

Those are the questions Id be asking.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
When gas goes back over $5 will the 1-2 MPG make a difference?

If you buy the souped up version, can you afford an additional $1k part replacement?

Those are the questions Id be asking.


Which $1k is that ?

15mm spanner to flip the blower belt off bypasses the blower should you need to (and it's bypassed anyway at part throttle).

Biggest problem that I have with the L67 is the special accessory belt and pulley that the regular V-6 doesn't have.

Bottom end is shot peened and bullet proof

 

[ls1mike]

The Supercharger adds no significant repairs or maintenance. Make sure to check the stuff jsnyder said. The N/A cars suffer from the valve cover gaskets and intake gasket too.

However the 2004 to 2007 have the updated transmission and intake gasket. So that makes it easier. You should not have to worry about the intake gasket.

The valve cover gaskets are easy to replace. I have a shift kit in my car, makes it shift nice and even the 2004 and up cars can benefit from one

Agree with Shannow. Not sure what extra 1000 bucks you are going to need. I don't rememeber the last time I have seen an Eaton M90 fail, but if it does, 649.99 from ZZpeformance.com. 799.99 for the ported one. Swapping one out takes about an hour and a half.

I have owned 3 3800 cars. Two supercharged and one N/A all have been good. I ran my 2001 GTP to 270,000 and my i998 N/A Bonneville out to 280,000. I don't really even think the mpgs were any different if you drove reasonably.

 

[KD0AXS]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I don't really even think the mpgs were any different if you drove reasonably.


Who drives "reasonably" in a supercharged car?

 

[SteveSRT8]

While the enthusiasm for the incredible torque will be high for a while you must remember the Buicks have a pretty sedate chassis set up and modest brakes.

Use too much supercharger and you'll end up in the woods. A lot like the supercharged 2006 Tahoe we turned through here once.

There's much more power than anything else, and the fun stops at the corners. Mileage across the 3800 series is remarkably similar in daily driving once the thrill wears down a bit.

 

[Trav]

I have a 2000 GTP with under 100K, no problems with the engine. I did the LIM gaskets as a precaution.

What really helps this car is Bilstein struts and GM performance chassis upgrades.
Tubular rear trailing arms, strut connectors, performance sway bars front and rear really help in handling.
I put later model impala front rotors 12" up front with Camero front twin piston calipers,
SS lines, its a huge improvement.

OEM Front sway bar breakage was very common on the W body, look for it.
The SC cars have the HD transmission and much stronger than non SC cars, all in all the SC cars are better than their non SC brothers.

One word of caution on the 3800 of this vintage SC and non SC. DO NOT clean the throttle body with the MAF sensor installed! It is in the throttle body and has the durability of a wet noodle.
Always remove it first.

Things to look for..
Rocker panel rot in the rear especially on sunroof cars (the rear drains are in the rocker)
Oil pan rot
Filler pipe rot
Blown lower control arm bushings especially the front donuts.
LIM and elbow leaks, valve cover leaks.
Broken front sway bar
Parking brake problems(common PITA)
Any transmission issues especially the non SC and pre 2003 units
Sagging rear springs (all) and door hinges on the 2 doors.
Tail light separation (Grand Prix)

Aside fro these few things these are good cars.

 

[eljefino]

I had a N/A Intrigue 3800. Fun! Didn't drive like typical front-heavy GM FWD.

Then I got a 3.1 W-body Century. Junk! It at least had sizeable brake rotors. I'd cry if they put that setup on supercharged 3.8s though. Century had that "firm shifting transmission when hot" problem.

Chase your dream! Those cars were real sleepers.

 

[beast3300]

Supercharged doesn't add to more repair costs unless you use regular fuel and beat on it. On the series 2 the SC was slightly more reliable from the stand point of having a SC instead of a plastic upper intake. But I digress... go for the SC model. You will love it.

 

[sciphi]

Those NEED premium. It'll be an extra $3-4 a tank depending on how much it is in your area.

2004-2007 GP's should be fairly problem-free. The later of those years (late 2004-2007) got the Series III L32 version of the 3800. Those had the updated intake manifold gaskets from the factory and were overall more refined engines. If you get a Series III, most of the problems mentioned in this thread disappear. The coolant elbows still remain AFAIK, but there are metal replacements available now.

Ask the owner what fuel they put in. If they give you a blank look, I'd walk. Running regular for an extended period of time in a SC 3800 is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Recalculating]

Excellent input from all. Readying my BPAU for the serpentine and supercharger belt change, coupler in the supercharger with new supercharger oil.

Have owned since new and enjoy its ride and taking care of it to specs. It's amazing to see how little money you can pick up a used one for. Sometimes an old timer is giving it up for something easier to get out of the pharmacy lot with and just wants to sell. I do not qualify......yet.

 

[PhillyJoe]

Original owner of a 2007 Pontiac GT here with 97k. Like any car, maintenance is the key. I changed fluids on a regular basis and the car still runs like new. No unusual issues. Yes, I use premium; not the engine to be penny-wise and pound foolish. Bilsteins only came on the GXP model, but has a solid ride and feel. H/D trans is a bonus. Bottom line, if you can buy a s/c version for relatively the same as the regular base model, it's a great car and remember - it all comes down to how the car was taken care of.

 

[Ram01]

I just traded in a 04 gp gtp with 125k the car ran great until the abs module went and they wanted $1500 to fix. I purchase a 2013 Chevy. Malibu 2LT I like the fuel savings but miss the gp power

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
When gas goes back over $5 will the 1-2 MPG make a difference?

If you buy the souped up version, can you afford an additional $1k part replacement?

Those are the questions Id be asking.


Which $1k is that ?

15mm spanner to flip the blower belt off bypasses the blower should you need to (and it's bypassed anyway at part throttle).

Biggest problem that I have with the L67 is the special accessory belt and pulley that the regular V-6 doesn't have.

Bottom end is shot peened and bullet proof


Lol just what I'd want, a car with a ghetto "bypass" because something failed.

Engine and trans are likely within statistical limits for potential for failure.

You just bought a supercharged car at a premium potentially for the supercharger... It's one more part to break no matter how you look at it.

It may well be super reliable, but the potential still exists, and in used cars, more stuff must be considered in the lifecycle cost.

 

[Spazdog]

Car fires.

I think the problem is solved by 2004, but I've been on two Grand Prix GTP fire investigations. Both 2003 or earlier. Both times the GM rep took one look at the car and said, "Nahh....it's not your device." In fact we recovered both breathalyzers completely intact. He knows what it is but he didn't tell me. Another outside rep in safety orange jumpsuit began dismantling and taking pictures of my installation work. Handed me the unit and said that we were good. My company didn't hear any more claims on the fire after that.

If I had to guess, I would say that it was something by the driver's side headlamp. That was where both cars were burned the worst.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rtdphotography/3057046359/
Not my pic. But consistant with what I saw.

 

[NMBurb02]

Thanks for all of the advice.

If the owner has no/limited maintenance records, is that an automatic no-go for you or could taking it to a good mechanic determine if it was neglected?

 

[supton]

I'm not sure I'd buy anything used unless if I had a couple grand sitting around "just in case". Even if it checks out great, it's still used, and, stuff can and does just break. Out of the blue. That couple grand is your "warrenty" that pays for it.

Limited maintenance records, eh, hard to say. Should be able to look at the fluids and tell w/in reason if anything is badly amiss. Records are great but I suspect a lot of cars that are record-less are just fine. And more than a few with bogus records.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Ram01
I just traded in a 04 gp gtp with 125k the car ran great until the abs module went and they wanted $1500 to fix. I purchase a 2013 Chevy. Malibu 2LT I like the fuel savings but miss the gp power


Rock Auto lists the module for $680 plus a $50 core for a car with traction control, $210 without.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Car fires.

I think the problem is solved by 2004, but I've been on two Grand Prix GTP fire investigations. Both 2003 or earlier. Both times the GM rep took one look at the car and said, "Nahh....it's not your device." In fact we recovered both breathalyzers completely intact. He knows what it is but he didn't tell me. Another outside rep in safety orange jumpsuit began dismantling and taking pictures of my installation work. Handed me the unit and said that we were good. My company didn't hear any more claims on the fire after that.

If I had to guess, I would say that it was something by the driver's side headlamp. That was where both cars were burned the worst.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rtdphotography/3057046359/
Not my pic. But consistant with what I saw.

The fix is replacing the valve cover gasket and removing the goofy item that hold the holds the spark plug wires in place.
It was a recall.