Studdable Snows (without studs) vs Studless Snows
- Thread starter 99Saturn
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: faramir9
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: faramir9
the General's Q-speed rating seems too low for your commute
Care to elaborate on this?
Personal preference. Not a slam at the General Arctic: never driven on it, but know a guy who has; he was satisfied.
I (almost certainly) know part of the route the OP takes on his daily commute. On dry days at rush hour it can be like NASCAR. He said part of the trip is at speeds up to 80 mph. For that part of the trip there will be bare or nearly bare roads more often than not, unless it is a very bad winter.
I'm pretty sure I know much of his route, which is mainly to avoid traffic as much as possible, as I question why he needs to swing around into Bergen Co, to get to Morris Co (which I used to live and still work).
Q-speed rated snow tires is more than sufficient.
Coming from ORange Co area, I would think the OP would go into NJ either from the Sussex Co side (ie like Vernon) or Passaic County (ie Greenwood Lake), and make his way to Rte 23, which can be a parking lot in certain areas, until he gets to I-287
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: faramir9
the General's Q-speed rating seems too low for your commute
Care to elaborate on this?
Personal preference. Not a slam at the General Arctic: never driven on it, but know a guy who has; he was satisfied.
I (almost certainly) know part of the route the OP takes on his daily commute. On dry days at rush hour it can be like NASCAR. He said part of the trip is at speeds up to 80 mph. For that part of the trip there will be bare or nearly bare roads more often than not, unless it is a very bad winter.
I'm pretty sure I know much of his route, which is mainly to avoid traffic as much as possible, as I question why he needs to swing around into Bergen Co, to get to Morris Co (which I used to live and still work).
Q-speed rated snow tires is more than sufficient.
Coming from ORange Co area, I would think the OP would go into NJ either from the Sussex Co side (ie like Vernon) or Passaic County (ie Greenwood Lake), and make his way to Rte 23, which can be a parking lot in certain areas, until he gets to I-287
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
I'm pretty sure I know much of his route, which is mainly to avoid traffic as much as possible, as I question why he needs to swing around into Bergen Co, to get to Morris Co (which I used to live and still work).
Q-speed rated snow tires is more than sufficient.
Coming from ORange Co area, I would think the OP would go into NJ either from the Sussex Co side (ie like Vernon) or Passaic County (ie Greenwood Lake), and make his way to Rte 23, which can be a parking lot in certain areas, until he gets to I-287
I-287 is what I was thinking of. It can be fun, especially at rush hour. Plus if you get to 287 via I-80 or 280 that's more fun times. And if you get off 287 onto Rte. 10, to corporate park city....take a deep breath.
I'm pretty sure I know much of his route, which is mainly to avoid traffic as much as possible, as I question why he needs to swing around into Bergen Co, to get to Morris Co (which I used to live and still work).
Q-speed rated snow tires is more than sufficient.
Coming from ORange Co area, I would think the OP would go into NJ either from the Sussex Co side (ie like Vernon) or Passaic County (ie Greenwood Lake), and make his way to Rte 23, which can be a parking lot in certain areas, until he gets to I-287
I-287 is what I was thinking of. It can be fun, especially at rush hour. Plus if you get to 287 via I-80 or 280 that's more fun times. And if you get off 287 onto Rte. 10, to corporate park city....take a deep breath.
Originally Posted By: Sequoiasoon
Whatever you do I HIGHLY recommend having them put on extra rims. If you don't you will pay $100 in fall and again in spring to mount/dismount/remount that adds up quick. Ask Tirerack or wherever you get them about "cloning" your TPMS http://www.standardbrand.com/TPMS-Standard Cloning Process/Content.aspx This way you can driveway swap and keep all TPMS functions.
Definitely going on new wheels. You're correct, cost of 4 OEM steelies is a little more than one season of mounting and unmounting. I honestly need to investigate the TPMS more, I planned on ordering OEM from a dealer but need to research if they need to be programmed (and what the cost might end up being).
Originally Posted By: faramir9
I (almost certainly) know part of the route the OP takes on his daily commute. On dry days at rush hour it can be like NASCAR. He said part of the trip is at speeds up to 80 mph. For that part of the trip there will be bare or nearly bare roads more often than not, unless it is a very bad winter.
This is pretty accurate, and as famamir9 and UG_Passat put together, the 24 mile run at 65 to 80 mph is I-287. Speed is not the issue it's the thought process (or lack of) of many drivers (passing on the right, not enough space between vehicles, merging without enough time to get up to speed, etc.
In reality there could be (on average) 1 trip a week during a bad winter that becomes a questionable drive. The vast majority of the time is dry pavement. When the snow falls and the plows can't keep up, it is a long commute. To be fair, it's not my commute but the gf's (which probably makes me over think the decision as well).
I also broke out the trip as I did because it presents various breaks in driving patterns, plow and salt quality, etc. Last year presented 3 to 4 times with heavy snow that I swear was not touched on the road for the last 4 to 5 miles. All that said, I managed in a Ford Aspire (if you don't know, insertglorified clown car and you'll get the picture) and new KR21s. She managed in the Saturn with P4's, probably ~8/32nds.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
I'm pretty sure I know much of his route, which is mainly to avoid traffic as much as possible, as I question why he needs to swing around into Bergen Co, to get to Morris Co (which I used to live and still work).
Q-speed rated snow tires is more than sufficient.
Coming from ORange Co area, I would think the OP would go into NJ either from the Sussex Co side (ie like Vernon) or Passaic County (ie Greenwood Lake), and make his way to Rte 23, which can be a parking lot in certain areas, until he gets to I-287
I guess that would depend where your starting point is in OC. If you start around Harriman, Monroe, maybe even Washingtonville and Chester, the Thruway to 287 is a pretty clean run. I just prefer to keep off the thruway as there is no exit if you hit traffic, plus I can avoid the tolls both ways (hence the 14 miles at 55 mph with some 35 mph stops) and some easy pull offs in the case of a breakdown. Thru Greenwood Lake or Warwick (I think that may be where you were thinking I am) always appears to me to be a bit longer, if not in miles in time.
Whatever you do I HIGHLY recommend having them put on extra rims. If you don't you will pay $100 in fall and again in spring to mount/dismount/remount that adds up quick. Ask Tirerack or wherever you get them about "cloning" your TPMS http://www.standardbrand.com/TPMS-Standard Cloning Process/Content.aspx This way you can driveway swap and keep all TPMS functions.
Definitely going on new wheels. You're correct, cost of 4 OEM steelies is a little more than one season of mounting and unmounting. I honestly need to investigate the TPMS more, I planned on ordering OEM from a dealer but need to research if they need to be programmed (and what the cost might end up being).
Originally Posted By: faramir9
I (almost certainly) know part of the route the OP takes on his daily commute. On dry days at rush hour it can be like NASCAR. He said part of the trip is at speeds up to 80 mph. For that part of the trip there will be bare or nearly bare roads more often than not, unless it is a very bad winter.
This is pretty accurate, and as famamir9 and UG_Passat put together, the 24 mile run at 65 to 80 mph is I-287. Speed is not the issue it's the thought process (or lack of) of many drivers (passing on the right, not enough space between vehicles, merging without enough time to get up to speed, etc.
In reality there could be (on average) 1 trip a week during a bad winter that becomes a questionable drive. The vast majority of the time is dry pavement. When the snow falls and the plows can't keep up, it is a long commute. To be fair, it's not my commute but the gf's (which probably makes me over think the decision as well).
I also broke out the trip as I did because it presents various breaks in driving patterns, plow and salt quality, etc. Last year presented 3 to 4 times with heavy snow that I swear was not touched on the road for the last 4 to 5 miles. All that said, I managed in a Ford Aspire (if you don't know, insert
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
I'm pretty sure I know much of his route, which is mainly to avoid traffic as much as possible, as I question why he needs to swing around into Bergen Co, to get to Morris Co (which I used to live and still work).
Q-speed rated snow tires is more than sufficient.
Coming from ORange Co area, I would think the OP would go into NJ either from the Sussex Co side (ie like Vernon) or Passaic County (ie Greenwood Lake), and make his way to Rte 23, which can be a parking lot in certain areas, until he gets to I-287
I guess that would depend where your starting point is in OC. If you start around Harriman, Monroe, maybe even Washingtonville and Chester, the Thruway to 287 is a pretty clean run. I just prefer to keep off the thruway as there is no exit if you hit traffic, plus I can avoid the tolls both ways (hence the 14 miles at 55 mph with some 35 mph stops) and some easy pull offs in the case of a breakdown. Thru Greenwood Lake or Warwick (I think that may be where you were thinking I am) always appears to me to be a bit longer, if not in miles in time.
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
I guess that would depend where your starting point is in OC. If you start around Harriman, Monroe, maybe even Washingtonville and Chester, the Thruway to 287 is a pretty clean run. I just prefer to keep off the thruway as there is no exit if you hit traffic, plus I can avoid the tolls both ways (hence the 14 miles at 55 mph with some 35 mph stops) and some easy pull offs in the case of a breakdown. Thru Greenwood Lake or Warwick (I think that may be where you were thinking I am) always appears to me to be a bit longer, if not in miles in time.
Harriman/Monroe, you're right, I would not consider taking the Truway, I would rather go through 17 down to 287. Chester is tough, because you can go towards the Truway or down to Warwick & Vernon.
I guess that would depend where your starting point is in OC. If you start around Harriman, Monroe, maybe even Washingtonville and Chester, the Thruway to 287 is a pretty clean run. I just prefer to keep off the thruway as there is no exit if you hit traffic, plus I can avoid the tolls both ways (hence the 14 miles at 55 mph with some 35 mph stops) and some easy pull offs in the case of a breakdown. Thru Greenwood Lake or Warwick (I think that may be where you were thinking I am) always appears to me to be a bit longer, if not in miles in time.
Harriman/Monroe, you're right, I would not consider taking the Truway, I would rather go through 17 down to 287. Chester is tough, because you can go towards the Truway or down to Warwick & Vernon.
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
I honestly need to investigate the TPMS more, I planned on ordering OEM from a dealer but need to research if they need to be programmed (and what the cost might end up being).
This was/is a major reason my sister and brother-in-law don't get snow tires anymore (they run WRG2's on CRV and Murano). I did forward the info when I found it. They drive I-287 through Westchester into CT and have had a couple flats that their TPMS picked up early before killing the tire so they won't go without it. When he first inquired the Honda dealer by him wanted I think about $20 tire just to reprogram which he would have had to do 2x year because they were different ID codes. With the clones you eliminate that issue.
I don't have TPMS on either car so I'm old schoolin' it. Check pressure 1-2x month and hope no metal on road (like I just got last week). Not that it would have helped much on saving the tire since it was at sidewall by tread but could have made a difference if I kept driving.
Check craigslist and others (maybe even boneyard) for steelies or even factory alloy. My factory alloys were cheaper than getting steel from dealer.
I honestly need to investigate the TPMS more, I planned on ordering OEM from a dealer but need to research if they need to be programmed (and what the cost might end up being).
This was/is a major reason my sister and brother-in-law don't get snow tires anymore (they run WRG2's on CRV and Murano). I did forward the info when I found it. They drive I-287 through Westchester into CT and have had a couple flats that their TPMS picked up early before killing the tire so they won't go without it. When he first inquired the Honda dealer by him wanted I think about $20 tire just to reprogram which he would have had to do 2x year because they were different ID codes. With the clones you eliminate that issue.
I don't have TPMS on either car so I'm old schoolin' it. Check pressure 1-2x month and hope no metal on road (like I just got last week). Not that it would have helped much on saving the tire since it was at sidewall by tread but could have made a difference if I kept driving.
Check craigslist and others (maybe even boneyard) for steelies or even factory alloy. My factory alloys were cheaper than getting steel from dealer.
Last edited:
Your Cruze will not do anything if it goes without TPMS. All it will do is light the TPMS light and make you toggle past the warning screen on startup. Traction/stability control are not affected.
Chevy used to let the computer re-learn TPMS without a tool, but took away that functionality for the later-built 2012's and early-build 2013's, IIRC. A later-built 2013 may have the ability to re-learn TPMS, but from what I've heard it's hit or miss. My early-built 2012 has that ability, which I do like.
Chevy used to let the computer re-learn TPMS without a tool, but took away that functionality for the later-built 2012's and early-build 2013's, IIRC. A later-built 2013 may have the ability to re-learn TPMS, but from what I've heard it's hit or miss. My early-built 2012 has that ability, which I do like.
sciphi - Just to make sure I understand, you were able to just use the relearn process in order to sync up the new TPMS sensors in your Cruze (in other words, you didn't have to get anything "set" first when you mounted the tires the first time)?
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
General Altimax Arctic works fine in Northern NJ (sussex county) weather & road conditions. I know this..because I have used them and live in Sussex Co.
It will have mushy handling when the road is dry though.
I found their dry handling when compared to other snow tires was excellent. Anyone who has seen my posts regarding snow tires knows how much I love the Altimax Arctic. I think it is the snow tire bargain of the market. I need new snows (larger size) for my SI and I plan on buying those again. They are excellent tires.
General Altimax Arctic works fine in Northern NJ (sussex county) weather & road conditions. I know this..because I have used them and live in Sussex Co.
It will have mushy handling when the road is dry though.
I found their dry handling when compared to other snow tires was excellent. Anyone who has seen my posts regarding snow tires knows how much I love the Altimax Arctic. I think it is the snow tire bargain of the market. I need new snows (larger size) for my SI and I plan on buying those again. They are excellent tires.
Agree with SLCraig. I really can't say a single bad word about Altimax Arctic. They're a great tire for their intended purpose.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Q-speed rating is good for 99 mph sustained.
More than sufficient for a 50 mile (one-way) commute.
http://www.barrystiretech.com/speedratings.html
"...tire to have an overlay - commonly called a "cap ply" and nylon is a commonly used material. This overlay restricts the growth of the tire due to centrifugal forces as well as the movement caused by the standing wave. Not only does this result in reduced stresses in the tire, it also reduces heat generation."
Look at the tiny print on the tire sidewall. If the number of plies includes one nylon ply in the tread, that is probably the cap ply. A good sign. The tiny print will say something like, "1 polyester ply sidewall, 2 steel ply tread, 1 nylon ply tread" or something like that. If it doesn't have that cap ply, keep looking for one that does.
Q-speed rating is good for 99 mph sustained.
More than sufficient for a 50 mile (one-way) commute.
http://www.barrystiretech.com/speedratings.html
"...tire to have an overlay - commonly called a "cap ply" and nylon is a commonly used material. This overlay restricts the growth of the tire due to centrifugal forces as well as the movement caused by the standing wave. Not only does this result in reduced stresses in the tire, it also reduces heat generation."
Look at the tiny print on the tire sidewall. If the number of plies includes one nylon ply in the tread, that is probably the cap ply. A good sign. The tiny print will say something like, "1 polyester ply sidewall, 2 steel ply tread, 1 nylon ply tread" or something like that. If it doesn't have that cap ply, keep looking for one that does.
This is what my Altimax Arctic says:
Sidewall 1 ply polyester
Tread 5 plies: 1 polyester + 2 steel + 2 nylon
Not sure if that means it has a cap ply or not. Being Q-rated, I'd be surprised if it did.
Sidewall 1 ply polyester
Tread 5 plies: 1 polyester + 2 steel + 2 nylon
Not sure if that means it has a cap ply or not. Being Q-rated, I'd be surprised if it did.
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
sciphi - Just to make sure I understand, you were able to just use the relearn process in order to sync up the new TPMS sensors in your Cruze (in other words, you didn't have to get anything "set" first when you mounted the tires the first time)?
Yes. Keep in mind, your 2013 may or may not have that ability. Mine definitely does, and GM definitely removed the capability a few months after I purchased mine. I've heard reports that some 2013's have it again, but I am not sure.
Here is the process to check if yours needs a tool or not (copied and pasted from http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/12-wheels-tires-suspension/7845-2012-tpms-relearn.html):
1. Remove ALL four of the plastic tire valve caps before you get started.
2. Use the owner's manual instructions on how to get to the TPMS screen on the DIC (Hold "set" button on end of stalk)
3. Start letting air out with front driver tire valve. Horn will sound when sensor detected
4. Next procede to front passenger tire valve. Again horn will sound when sensor det.
5. Procede down side of car to rear passenger tire valve and deflate. Again horn will sound when sensor det.
6. Go around rear of car to driver side rear tire and repeat above. Horn will sound.
sciphi - Just to make sure I understand, you were able to just use the relearn process in order to sync up the new TPMS sensors in your Cruze (in other words, you didn't have to get anything "set" first when you mounted the tires the first time)?
Yes. Keep in mind, your 2013 may or may not have that ability. Mine definitely does, and GM definitely removed the capability a few months after I purchased mine. I've heard reports that some 2013's have it again, but I am not sure.
Here is the process to check if yours needs a tool or not (copied and pasted from http://www.cruzetalk.com/forum/12-wheels-tires-suspension/7845-2012-tpms-relearn.html):
1. Remove ALL four of the plastic tire valve caps before you get started.
2. Use the owner's manual instructions on how to get to the TPMS screen on the DIC (Hold "set" button on end of stalk)
3. Start letting air out with front driver tire valve. Horn will sound when sensor detected
4. Next procede to front passenger tire valve. Again horn will sound when sensor det.
5. Procede down side of car to rear passenger tire valve and deflate. Again horn will sound when sensor det.
6. Go around rear of car to driver side rear tire and repeat above. Horn will sound.
Originally Posted By: krzyss
Speed rating on winter tire may have something to do with the rubber compound not construction alone.
Krzys
combination of both, in certain instances it was just rubber compound, such as the Blizzak WS60 vs LM60. Structurally and the tread pattern, they were identical. The difference was the compound, were the WS had the Microcell tube compound and the LM had a silica based compound. The Microcell on the WS cannot sustain the heat generated from 130 (H) or higher mph speeds, so the LM version gets the harder silica based compound.
Of course, this means the WS had better traction in the wet stuff.
Speed rating on winter tire may have something to do with the rubber compound not construction alone.
Krzys
combination of both, in certain instances it was just rubber compound, such as the Blizzak WS60 vs LM60. Structurally and the tread pattern, they were identical. The difference was the compound, were the WS had the Microcell tube compound and the LM had a silica based compound. The Microcell on the WS cannot sustain the heat generated from 130 (H) or higher mph speeds, so the LM version gets the harder silica based compound.
Of course, this means the WS had better traction in the wet stuff.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
sciphi - Just to make sure I understand, you were able to just use the relearn process in order to sync up the new TPMS sensors in your Cruze (in other words, you didn't have to get anything "set" first when you mounted the tires the first time)?
Yes. Keep in mind, your 2013 may or may not have that ability. Mine definitely does, and GM definitely removed the capability a few months after I purchased mine. I've heard reports that some 2013's have it again, but I am not sure.
Thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression that the manual reset was totally out in the 2013 model, I'll have to give this a try at some point. I have the reset tool, so I should be all set, but I'll still test it to satisfy my curiosity. (I was concerned that I would need something other than the reset tool to set the TPMS the first time.)
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
sciphi - Just to make sure I understand, you were able to just use the relearn process in order to sync up the new TPMS sensors in your Cruze (in other words, you didn't have to get anything "set" first when you mounted the tires the first time)?
Yes. Keep in mind, your 2013 may or may not have that ability. Mine definitely does, and GM definitely removed the capability a few months after I purchased mine. I've heard reports that some 2013's have it again, but I am not sure.
Thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression that the manual reset was totally out in the 2013 model, I'll have to give this a try at some point. I have the reset tool, so I should be all set, but I'll still test it to satisfy my curiosity. (I was concerned that I would need something other than the reset tool to set the TPMS the first time.)
- Status