Studdable Snows (without studs) vs Studless Snows

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99Saturn

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I'm planning on buying snow tires this year (have never bought or used snow tires in the past) so I've been reading reviews and searching for deals, etc.

Anyway, I would prefer to get something that is not studded - and I'm wondering if studdable tire without studs makes any sense (from the snow traction/performance point of view, is it a waste?) versus buying something designed only to be studless?
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Some additional details:
2013 Chevy Cruze LS - 215/60/R16 is stock (will likely just stay with the stock size).

Car sees a commute of 100 miles round trip daily, 4 to 5 times a week. The commute in normal weather consists of:
1 mile in a residential community
4 miles on a county route (45 to 55 mph twisty road)
4 miles on a highway (65 to 75 mph with some hills)
14 miles on county road (55 to 60 mph with some slowdowns to 35mph through villages/towns)
24 miles on interstate (65 to 80 mph)
3 miles through local roads
Reverse for trip home
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Geographically the commute is NY to NJ. Snow comes into play maybe 3 to 10 times a year where it is bad enough to impact the commute. More of a concern driving in snow accumulated on roads yet to be plowed than roads being slick.

I'm leaning towards getting Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice WRT's.

I was/have considered General Altimax Arctic's based on the tirerack survey results, which is what's prompted my question about running without studs.

I'm not all that concerned with noise and comfort, really thinking more about handling and treadwear.

Thoughts? Suggestions are welcome.
 
General Altimax Arctic works fine in Northern NJ (sussex county) weather & road conditions. I know this..because I have used them and live in Sussex Co.

It will have mushy handling when the road is dry though.
 
I've been using Altimax Arctics in the same size as yours on my 530i for the past 4 winters without studs. They work very well in snow/slush. Plus, they were really inexpensive so it was a great deal.

Noise and comfort are not an issue.

Treadwear appears pretty good.
 
I wouldn't worry about it being studdable. Definitely make sure the tires are rated for ice traction just in case you hit some gnarly roads.
 
A "Snow tire" will not do well on Ice.
A purely "Ice Tire" will not do well in deep snow / slush.

There are tires that are a good compromise between both ice and snow. Something like a Blizzak Ws-70 with a lot of siping or a General Altimax Arctic.

A Firestone Winterforce does excellent in snow, but , without the aid of studs, has very poor ice traction.

Which part of NY do you live in? If you live in CNY, Western NY or Northern NY you shold be able to get by with snow tires or studded snow tires.

Eastern NY sees a lot of ice. You'd be better off with an ice tire if you were in Eastern NY.

ANY snow / winter / ice tire will be better than an all season, touring or summer tire!
 
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Southeastern NY - Orange County. The typical commute I outlined travels through Orange and Rockland in NY and Bergen, Passaic and Morris in NJ.

Not to state the obvious, but weather varies a lot based on location in that trip outline. 15+ inches at one location has equated to 3 inches or less at the other end of the trip.

IMO deep snow creates more problems than ice.

Edit: UG Passat just beat me to it
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Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=123


^I'm reading now, and will see if I can find this for the Goodyear's I mentioned as well with the same type of writeup as this.

FWIW, one of the main driving factors that got me to mentioning these two were the survey numbers on tirerack:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=W&VT=C

The list on DTD is fair game too:
Cooper Weather Master S/T 2
Hankook Winter I*Pike RS W419
Hankook I*Cept Evo W310

Both the Goodyear's and the Generals I mentioned can be bought and mounted ~$400 today, though I'm in no rush.
 
Originally Posted By: 99Saturn

^I'm reading now, and will see if I can find this for the Goodyear's I mentioned as well with the same type of writeup as this.

This is the only test of the Goodyears that TR has done:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=167

Alas, I'm not sure if it can be directly compared to the Altimax Arctic test. I think the methodology may have been somewhat different.
 
iirc, the Hankook I*Cept Evo got pretty high ratings on Consumer Reports. THis is a performance winter tire, so it trades some deeper snow/ice traction for dry road holding and a H/V speed rating.

The Ipike RS seem new. Hopefully it is as good as the old Ipike (seems like a canadian market tire)

The new Hankook I*cept IZ intrigues me also.
http://www.hankooktireusa.com/Product/pr...3&FnCode=03
 
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the issue I have with the goodyears, looking at them, while they have a decent number of sipes, they are all straight.

the need to thave the saw-tooth style, which gives it more biting edges.
 
One thing to consider: Non-studded studdable winter tires will last much longer on dry roads than will non-studdables. That's from both conventional wisdom and my personal experience. (see below)

It sounds like you might put on as much as 10K miles on your winter tires, depending how early/late you swap them out. If it's a warm, dry winter, a non-studdable tire could be close to shot by then. A non-studded studdable, like the Hankook iPike, will likely have plenty of tread left for next year.

The treadwear on dry roads between the two types of tires is striking. One year, for strange reasons never to be repeated, I wound up running a set of Kelly Snowtrakker non-studded studdable tires through two winters and also the summer in between. (i.e. had them on the car for almost two calendar years straight; don't ask)

I was about to change over to all-seasons the first week of May the following spring, when one of the Snowtrakkers blew out. After 20 months and 20-some K miles, including one whole summer, they still had enough tread left that I kick myself for not saving the three good ones to sell when I got the P4s installed.

Those were decent tires, but by far the best winter tire I ever drove on was the Nokian RSI: forerunner of the R and R2. That tire transformed my totally average Chevy Classic into a winter beast. OTOH, I only ran them one winter, then gave them to a friend who needed them more than I did the next year; she only got one winter out of them, so two winters total---with no summer usage. (When she took them off after their second season they still had enough tread to be run as all-seasons---but that seems a blasphemy for that tire.)

I would consider either Hankook model or the Cooper listed here: (the General's Q-speed rating seems too low for your commute) http://is.gd/w87uGI
 
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I have the Altimax Arctics (not studded) on the Sequoia and it is a beast in the snow. In 2WD it did 1000% percent better than the "not for all seasons" in 4WD. I would definitely recommend them to anyone. I got them as I didn't have the extra cash for Nokians that I really wanted. I'm on 4-5 seasons already but they only see 3k/year. They are a rebadged Gislaved Nord Frost 3 which was a top pick for many years (Continental owns General and Gislaved). My parents had the Gislaved and after a non fixable flat replaced it with the General and it was exact match.

The Generals will be noisier than your all seasons but not to bad and for the extra grip/safety WELL worth it IMO.

The Sonata is currently on Continental ExtremeWinterContacts in winter (same size as you). They currently have 3-4 seasons on them and they see about 5-6 during each season. These are by far the quietest snow tire I ever used. When new it got my Sonata through almost 10" of unplowed parking lot pushing snow the whole way. Softer ride which is nice on longer drives. One thing I do like about them is that the tread pattern is asymmetrical so you can cross rotate if they start to wear or cup and make more noise. With directionals that is not an option.

Whatever you do I HIGHLY recommend having them put on extra rims. If you don't you will pay $100 in fall and again in spring to mount/dismount/remount that adds up quick. Ask Tirerack or wherever you get them about "cloning" your TPMS http://www.standardbrand.com/TPMS-Standard Cloning Process/Content.aspx This way you can driveway swap and keep all TPMS functions.

I've had many different snows, Nokians were always my favorite, price is up there. Directional will always be better in slushy stuff. I REALLY like the idea of the new Nokian R2 with embedded crystals and might have to get those next.

A 4-5 option is the Nokian WRG3 (comes directional OR asymmetrical). I had the WRG2 asymmetrical as first snows on the Sonata and personal experience is that they were about 90% of a full out snow but much nicer in dry/wet and handling. At 6/32" they became my "all season" and did great until 4/32" then got questionable in the rain. As snows on the Sonata I started and stopped better than many SUV's at intersections which of course were 4WD but with all seasons.

If you look at the WRG3 (or WRG2) they have a lot of similarities to the Conti EWC for tread pattern.

For a long commute of mixed use I'd probably go 1)Conti EWC, 2)Altimax Arctic non studded just from my ride/noise experience with the "I really want to buy and try the Nokian R2" caveat. Followed by if I can only afford one set of tires Nokian WRG3.
 
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: faramir9
the General's Q-speed rating seems too low for your commute

Care to elaborate on this?


Personal preference. Not a slam at the General Arctic: never driven on it, but know a guy who has; he was satisfied.

I (almost certainly) know part of the route the OP takes on his daily commute. On dry days at rush hour it can be like NASCAR. He said part of the trip is at speeds up to 80 mph. For that part of the trip there will be bare or nearly bare roads more often than not, unless it is a very bad winter.

For those reasons---plus I like to allow lots of leeway on things related to safety and driving---I would choose a T-rated (or S, at minimum) winter tire that was, if not "performance"-oriented, at least leaning that way.

I've been on the other side of this, too. Whenever someone insists that H is the minimum truly safe speed rating for an all-season and backs that up with Capri's recommendation, I note that my H727s have a cap ply, are T-rated, and I drive a 100-h.p. compact sedan like a grandpa most of the time.

All depends on circumstances.
 
Originally Posted By: faramir9


For those reasons---plus I like to allow lots of leeway on things related to safety and driving---I would choose a T-rated (or S, at minimum) winter tire that was, if not "performance"-oriented, at least leaning that way.

Gotcha. I've driven on the Arctics at 80 mph for hours at a time (200+ hwy miles trips) without any problems, but I understand your point about wanting a larger safety margin. A lot also depends on the load carried. The more load, the harder the tire will have to work and the smaller the margin.
 
You'll find that with snow tires the Cruze is a beast in the snow. The only limit to what it can do is limited by ground clearance. Being a porker of a compact does have some advantages in the snow. FYI, the "traction control off" button is to the right of the shifter. You may need it to get started in deep snow on a hill.

I like the General Altimax Arctics. The only downside is that they have a substantial fuel economy penalty. On my old Buick LeSabre those tires knocked 3-4 mpg off the car just by themselves. Aside from that, they were darned good snow tires.

Since you have such a long commute, you may want to look into the Michelin X-Ice XI-3 or the Nokian Hakka R2. I have a set of the Hakka R's in 215/60-16 that have about 15k-18k miles on them, and they still have about 7-8/32" of tread left. Fuel economy did not take a hit from switching them on, either. Being a Nokian, performance in everything was great. When the roads were dry, they acted like all-seasons for comfort and noise. Great snow tires.
 
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+1 go with the michelin xice xi3 or hakka R2

both great tires. both have good dry handling(for snow tire)
also much better gas mileage vs some snow tires.

for the most part its like driving on a normal all season feel.. except they are amazing in winter conditions.

no mud bogger noise, no 10% less mpg, no massive tread squirm.

either of those tires will take your cruze through snow deep enough that I would fear for parts being ripped off by the snow ie bumper, or snow packing up on the radiator etc.
 
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