Strut mount diagnosis - Honda Odyssey

[JHZR2]

With just a hair under 100k on my wife’s Odyssey, some services are coming due. And parts are showing wear.

She recently mentioned a bit of looseness at slow speeds on rough roads, coming from the front left side. I had fixed a right inner tie rod a few months back, but that’s not the issue here.

I know when we were shopping vans, I test drove a few used odysseys that had noise from what seemed like the strut mount bearings. We don’t have that.

But if I put my hand in the spring,, and bounce the van up and down. There’s a bit of movement in the spring itself. I can’t grab the spring and move it by hand.

What’s the best bet for diagnosing exactly what the issue is?

I don’t think the spring itself Is broken.

Thanks!

 

[BrendanC]

With just a hair under 100k on my wife’s Odyssey, some services are coming due. And parts are showing wear.

She recently mentioned a bit of looseness at slow speeds on rough roads, coming from the front left side. I had fixed a right inner tie rod a few months back, but that’s not the issue here.

I know when we were shopping vans, I test drove a few used odysseys that had noise from what seemed like the strut mount bearings. We don’t have that.

But if I put my hand in the spring,, and bounce the van up and down. There’s a bit of movement in the spring itself. I can’t grab the spring and move it by hand.

What’s the best bet for diagnosing exactly what the issue is?

I don’t think the spring itself Is broken.

Thanks!

i wonder if it could be either the lower ball joint or the rear lower control arm bushing like what happens on the accord.

 

[ctechbob]

i wonder if it could be either the lower ball joint or the rear lower control arm bushing like what happens on the accord.

If it has the compliance bushings, that's usually a good place to start. You've got a 2003 Accord, so you're familiar. They changed them up in later years though as I recall.

 

[JHZR2]

i wonder if it could be either the lower ball joint or the rear lower control arm bushing like what happens on the accord.

The only movement I sense is when I physically put my hand on the spring, and bounce the car up and down. I don’t sense it from the strut shaft itself, or elsewhere.

I don’t think the spring is broken. That makes me think it’s the mount.

 

[SARG52]

The first component I would check that creates such a rattle is the sway bar links. They do go bad.... I've replaced mine several time with 200+K miles on the van.

 

[brages]

The strut mounts on these are two plastic discs that slip against each other. No ball bearings involved. Some of the aftermarket ones are low quality or smaller discs. My experience is with 3rd gens.

 

[Trav]

With just a hair under 100k on my wife’s Odyssey, some services are coming due. And parts are showing wear.

She recently mentioned a bit of looseness at slow speeds on rough roads, coming from the front left side. I had fixed a right inner tie rod a few months back, but that’s not the issue here.

I know when we were shopping vans, I test drove a few used odysseys that had noise from what seemed like the strut mount bearings. We don’t have that.

But if I put my hand in the spring,, and bounce the van up and down. There’s a bit of movement in the spring itself. I can’t grab the spring and move it by hand.

What’s the best bet for diagnosing exactly what the issue is?

I don’t think the spring itself Is broken.

Thanks!

Look at the nut on top of the rod that goes through the mount when bouncing it up and down any movement other than normal rubber flex indicates a worn mount or spring insulator, compare it to the other side. I have replaced front springs on a few (3 i can think of) of these, they seem to break in the upper regions of the spring.

 

[Trav]

The strut mounts on these are two plastic discs that slip against each other. No ball bearings involved. Some of the aftermarket ones are low quality or smaller discs. My experience is with 3rd gens.

It has balls or needles in between the 2 disk otherwise it would just bind. Every one of these mount bearings has them.

https://www.hondapartsnow.com/oem-honda-odyssey-strut_bearing.html

 

[brages]

It has balls or needles in between the 2 disk otherwise it would just bind. Every one of these mount bearings has them.

https://www.hondapartsnow.com/oem-honda-odyssey-strut_bearing.html

Have you actually had one of these apart? My 2010 is just plastic sliding on plastic.

51726-SHJ-A52 - Genuine Honda Bearing, Front Shock Absorber Mount

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[Trav]

I have and I know the design you are referring to a 3 part disk with a composite disc in the middle AKA Norglide. The disc does use a teflon based polymer between the disc plates that acts as a "bearing" but this design has a lot of shortcomings and not common.
I suspect this is what you have.

Edit: This may be interesting to you. The red part is the "bearing element" if this wears out it would appear to be just a plastic disc on a plastic disc.

Find out about the suspension strut bearing and what it does

Suspension strut bearing - a hugely important sub-system in automotive vehicles for a smooth ride

www.bearings.saint-gobain.com

 

[JHZR2]

Have you actually had one of these apart? My 2010 is just plastic sliding on plastic.

51726-SHJ-A52 - Genuine Honda Bearing, Front Shock Absorber Mount

HondaPartsNow.com offers the great deal for genuine Honda parts, 51726SHJA52. Bearing, Front Shock Absorber Mount for $24.54. All parts are backed by the Honda's warranty.

www.hondapartsnow.com

I believe there are two designs, before and after a certain chassis number.

I don’t think it’s the bearing. I remember test driving a used odyssey when we were shopping and noting noise from the strut bearing. This isn’t the same at all. It’s a rattle/looseness on bumps. Steering and turning is perfect and no play.

I am kind of concerned it may be a broken spring, though I can’t get the spring to move at all if we’re not pushing the body up and down. Hoping it’s just the upper perch piece that it sits on maybe. The issue is it may be hard to tell until it’s removed from the van… and then there’s the timeline to get the stupid part.

 

[JHZR2]

The first component I would check that creates such a rattle is the sway bar links. They do go bad.... I've replaced mine several time with 200+K miles on the van.

View attachment 214172

So this is I think the culprit. Because while the motion and clunk was transferred to the spring, it was much sharper and more noticable when I was handling the sway bar and lower ball joint of this link.

What’s the best bet? Sankei 555 is about $22 at AAP. Their house brand parts are more like $30-50, moog is $60!!!

The OE part from Hondapartsnow is $22.

 

[spasm3]

So this is I think the culprit. Because while the motion and clunk was transferred to the spring, it was much sharper and more noticable when I was handling the sway bar and lower ball joint of this link.

What’s the best bet? Sankei 555 is about $22 at AAP. Their house brand parts are more like $30-50, moog is $60!!!

The OE part from Hondapartsnow is $22.

OEM, i replaced my hyundai sway bar bushings with moog, and had to redo it 5k miles later with oem.

Moog isnt as good as they used to be

Moog's Problem Solver line with the sintered metal bearings should in theory be tougher than the OE sealed style which uses a smooth ball in a teflon retainer. However, that's ONLY if they get greased regularly which the majority of owners likely don't do. Also, if the vehicle is serviced by a...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[Nukeman7]

So this is I think the culprit. Because while the motion and clunk was transferred to the spring, it was much sharper and more noticable when I was handling the sway bar and lower ball joint of this link.

What’s the best bet? Sankei 555 is about $22 at AAP. Their house brand parts are more like $30-50, moog is $60!!!

The OE part from Hondapartsnow is $22.

What year is your Odyssey? I have replaced these sway bar links on 3 Odysseys, two Accords and one Element. Each and every time, I chose the Moog part purchased for ~$25 from Amazon. The Moog Problem Solver sway bar links are 50% beefier than the OEM Honda part and they come with two critical features that I prefer. One, they have Zerk grease fittings and second, they have wrench flats on the base of each attachment stud instead of the lousy Allen hex key orifice at the end of the stud.

The OEM Honda sway bar links are installed with interference thread nuts/studs that deform and bind the threads. As such, you will most likely have to grind or saw off the old nut/stud to remove them. I will almost guarantee that the hex key orifice at the end of the stud will strip out (if not already rusted out) before you can remove all four nuts. If you can back off the nut a bit, you can lock the stud from spinning with needle nose Vise-Grip pliers on the newly exposed part of the threads.

If you want to go with a sealed part w/out Zerks, I'd suggest the Sankei 555 links. However, Advance Auto was backordered indefinitely when I tried to get them in October 2023. CTR sway bar links are also good South Korean alternatives.

 

[BrendanC]

So this is I think the culprit. Because while the motion and clunk was transferred to the spring, it was much sharper and more noticable when I was handling the sway bar and lower ball joint of this link.

What’s the best bet? Sankei 555 is about $22 at AAP. Their house brand parts are more like $30-50, moog is $60!!!

The OE part from Hondapartsnow is $22.

i replaced the end links on our accord today. it was making the clunk sound and now it is gone. i got these. with a $15 coupon i paid $4.32 a piece.

 

[brages]

I used Delphi. They are cheap and seem to be ok. I don't like greasable links.

 

[JHZR2]

What year is your Odyssey? I have replaced these sway bar links on 3 Odysseys, two Accords and one Element. Each and every time, I chose the Moog part purchased for ~$25 from Amazon. The Moog Problem Solver sway bar links are 50% beefier than the OEM Honda part and they come with two critical features that I prefer. One, they have Zerk grease fittings and second, they have wrench flats on the base of each attachment stud instead of the lousy Allen hex key orifice at the end of the stud.
View attachment 215243
The OEM Honda sway bar links are installed with interference thread nuts/studs that deform and bind the threads. As such, you will most likely have to grind or saw off the old nut/stud to remove them. I will almost guarantee that the hex key orifice at the end of the stud will strip out (if not already rusted out) before you can remove all four nuts. If you can back off the nut a bit, you can lock the stud from spinning with needle nose Vise-Grip pliers on the newly exposed part of the threads.

If you want to go with a sealed part w/out Zerks, I'd suggest the Sankei 555 links. However, Advance Auto was backordered indefinitely when I tried to get them in October 2023. CTR sway bar links are also good South Korean alternatives.

Thanks. Don’t really want greasable… but if this is a known weak point on Hondas, the 25% larger is interesting. Where did you find that it’s 25% larger than the OE part?

 

[Nukeman7]

Thanks. Don’t really want greasable… but if this is a known weak point on Hondas, the 25% larger is interesting. Where did you find that it’s 25% larger than the OE part?

I just visually compared the OEM ones to the Moog sway bar links that I have installed on the 6 Honda vehicles that I own or service for family members. They are pretty much 25 - 50% thicker in the linear rod section and the ends appear to be stouter than the Honda and aftermarket links. Some of the larger ends caps might be attributed to the greaseable design of the Moog part. I know that Moog's quality has dropped, but FYI, none of the Moog sway bar links I installed on these Hondas were made in China. They were made in Japan, Taiwan, or USA according to their boxes.

Like I stated, if you prefer the sealed design, take a look at the CTR sway bar links which I think are the only other links that have the wrench flat nuts built in the base of the studs like the Moog. You will greatly appreciate that feature when you go to install or remove them.

 

[SARG52]

Also another suggestion ...... I use one jack on the vehicle body and then a second jack under the lower control arm to get the stabilizer link lined up to the holes.
Makes the replacement much easier.
And you should be sure to follow Nukeman7's guidance on the wrench flats....... without them the job becomes a PIA.

 

[Dave9]

If your originals were bending, or rusted through, beefier on the connecting shaft may help, but otherwise, that's not where the link usually wears out. Also on some occasions you will find a thicker shaft is due to using less hardened metal to compensate. This is very common on the cheap straight bolt type links you see on Rock Auto and various other mechants' generic brands, more so than the designs with cast metal or welded on structures at either end.

Greaseable vs not, many people think greaseable means you have some burden to grease them often but if you are not losing grease, it's more of a feature than a liability to be able to add lube later. A lot of people like to claim you need to grease them with every oil change but this is not typically needed for an on-road vehicle, unless an old part and the grease/dust boot is shot and the regrease is putting back what is lost or trying to flush out contaminants. This latter issue is more of a stop gap measure till a replacement is installed, or in case of boot failure if caught early on, then boot replacement.

All else equal, you do eventually need to add lube to achieve same service life as a quality non-greaseable part, but in doing so with a quality greaseable alternative, you then end up with even longer life. The other benefit if the greaseable that have metal on metal contact surfaces is that they are significantly more resistant to shock force wear. This is not as much of a factor on sway bar links as it is on ball joints.

Sankei makes quality parts and I would not hesitate to pick one of their non-greasables over a greaseable generic.