Stick or Automatic

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Besides, it's hard to talk on the phone or text or pay attention to the navigation system when driving a stick.

I wish I could just assume this was a troll, but I've heard people make this exact argument unironically in real life.

Amazing what people are willing to admit about themselves in public.


You have to read what I wrote very carefully. I was just explaining why sticks aren't popular anymore. I see people texting all the time. Used to be when people were driving erratically you'd assume they were drunk, but now it's probably because they're texting. I always feel like yelling at them to stop texting, but I know it's pointless so I don't.

To be fair, the totality of what you've posted here is really easy to interpret as sympathetic toward the demise of the manual transmission.

Either way, my own point was that people really do use the "I can't text while driving stick" argument to justify automatics. If you're not among them, then I guess I'm not talking about you.

Amateurs!

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Besides, it's hard to talk on the phone or text or pay attention to the navigation system when driving a stick.

I wish I could just assume this was a troll, but I've heard people make this exact argument unironically in real life.

Amazing what people are willing to admit about themselves in public.


In today's "me first" society, being in the car means it's time to get on the phone to way too many people...

Have you ever seen people read newspaper or magazine while driving? I did, several times. Fixing make up? Etc.
Problem with texting is just sheer number of people that are ding it, but people were doing always stupid stuff. Now, those same people have phone.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Besides, it's hard to talk on the phone or text or pay attention to the navigation system when driving a stick.

I wish I could just assume this was a troll, but I've heard people make this exact argument unironically in real life.

Amazing what people are willing to admit about themselves in public.


You have to read what I wrote very carefully. I was just explaining why sticks aren't popular anymore. I see people texting all the time. Used to be when people were driving erratically you'd assume they were drunk, but now it's probably because they're texting. I always feel like yelling at them to stop texting, but I know it's pointless so I don't.

To be fair, the totality of what you've posted here is really easy to interpret as sympathetic toward the demise of the manual transmission.

Either way, my own point was that people really do use the "I can't text while driving stick" argument to justify automatics. If you're not among them, then I guess I'm not talking about you.


Just stating facts. When less than 3% of the cars sold are manuals, we're basically talking about 97% of the new car buyers out there.

I did drive a stick for 5 years. I don't think I'd do it again although it's handy if you go to Europe and get a stick for a rental. Other reason is too much traffic, you'd be stuck in 1st gear all the time and have the clutch in all the time. It was fun at the time though, you could chirp the tires in 2nd gear with a stick which you can't do with an automatic. Also while some people claim they can get 100k+ or more out of clutch, I think on average you're going to get less than that and it will cost you more to replace a clutch than the cost of an automatic. In my case, I buy cars used so there'd be no additional expense with an automatic aside from changing the fluid a few times. But a used car with a stick, you'd probably have to factor in a clutch at some point. Also I'm buying luxury cars so I'd rather have a luxury car that doesn't come in a stick than something more basic that came in a stick. Even Ferrari doesn't offer cars with a stick anymore.

 

[d00df00d]

Touched a nerve, have we?

 

[pbm]

I have been an M/T guy for over 40 years but my 2014 Focus is probably my last for numerous reasons...First..the clutch is the 'touchiest' I've ever driven (and it's much better since I did the 'snorkel delete' but still hard enough to get smooth take-off. Secondly, it's a PITA in the ever worsening traffic. Third, the MPGs with the m/t are now lower than most A/Ts. Fourth, the cost of clutch replacement on fwd cars has gotten very pricey..Fifth. it's hard to drink coffee, answer your phone and switch gears (of course I only answer my cell phone in Florida where its legal).....So...my next car will be an A/T.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Also while some people claim they can get 100k+ or more out of clutch, I think on average you're going to get less than that and it will cost you more to replace a clutch than the cost of an automatic.


If people are having to replace their clutches at 100K or less, then they don't know how to properly drive a stick. I've NEVER had to replace the clutch in any of my manuals. My '99 Corolla had 295K on it when the engine went, and it still had the original clutch...and even if a clutch had to be replaced, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive of a repair as repairing one of today's mega-gear automatics...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by pbm
I have been an M/T guy for over 40 years but my 2014 Focus is probably my last for numerous reasons...First..the clutch is the 'touchiest' I've ever driven (and it's much better since I did the 'snorkel delete' but still hard enough to get smooth take-off. Secondly, it's a PITA in the ever worsening traffic. Third, the MPGs with the m/t are now lower than most A/Ts. Fourth, the cost of clutch replacement on fwd cars has gotten very pricey..Fifth. it's hard to drink coffee, answer your phone and switch gears (of course I only answer my cell phone in Florida where its legal).....So...my next car will be an A/T.


Legal or not, no one should be doing anything with a phone while they're driving...

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Also while some people claim they can get 100k+ or more out of clutch, I think on average you're going to get less than that and it will cost you more to replace a clutch than the cost of an automatic.


If people are having to replace their clutches at 100K or less, then they don't know how to properly drive a stick. I've NEVER had to replace the clutch in any of my manuals. My '99 Corolla had 295K on it when the engine went, and it still had the original clutch...and even if a clutch had to be replaced, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive of a repair as repairing one of today's mega-gear automatics...

Wife's Civic had original at 173k when traded, her current Camry is at 200k with original. My Jetta had the clutch changed at 250k when the flywheel died; all the clutch parts were perfectly fine and good for another 200k by our estimation (but go figure, VW can't make a flywheel).

 

[GZRider]

I always prefer a manual, but for Japanese vehicles (excluding pickups) with AWD or 4x4 that's rarely an option with an i6, v6 or v8. The only ones made in number are Subi WRX and STI and with the community reputation, flat plane engines, DI and forced induction issues and other quirks they are more trouble then they are worth. And the few Acura's that had the 3.7 port injected engine, SHAWD and the manual always sell at a stupid premium cause fanboys gonna fanboy.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Also while some people claim they can get 100k+ or more out of clutch, I think on average you're going to get less than that and it will cost you more to replace a clutch than the cost of an automatic.


If people are having to replace their clutches at 100K or less, then they don't know how to properly drive a stick. I've NEVER had to replace the clutch in any of my manuals. My '99 Corolla had 295K on it when the engine went, and it still had the original clutch...and even if a clutch had to be replaced, it wouldn't be nearly as expensive of a repair as repairing one of today's mega-gear automatics...


Depends on the driving style that you do. Some people can get their brakes to last 100k. Mine are done in 20-30k. City stop and go driving, not long highway stretches are going to burn out the clutch. I've had a tank of gas give me 12 mpg because of all the stop and go traffic and I averaged 16mph. Last time I had a stick, I replaced the clutch when replacing the engine and it was almost worn out, no idea how bad it was originally as I bought it used. And dropping the clutch will burn it out too...

 

[dfarr67]

Well I have a 15 Accord.

- If I had gone V6, it would have had a conventional auto with shift paddles on the wheel, with programming probably a hoot to drive.
- but I bought a Sport with THE Honda 2.4L, currently the only auto is a cvt and in the far north I wasn't happy with the reliability reports of that particular trans- ended up with the MT6 which admittedly the only thing I don't like is 6th gear is not high enough, still revs 3000 at 115km. Other than that it is a good match and rare in that car. And so far with wifeys abuse has given no issues at all.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Originally Posted by dfarr67
Well I have a 15 Accord.

- If I had gone V6, it would have had a conventional auto with shift paddles on the wheel, with programming probably a hoot to drive.
- but I bought a Sport with THE Honda 2.4L, currently the only auto is a cvt and in the far north I wasn't happy with the reliability reports of that particular trans- ended up with the MT6 which admittedly the only thing I don't like is 6th gear is not high enough, still revs 3000 at 115km. Other than that it is a good match and rare in that car. And so far with wifeys abuse has given no issues at all.


Betcha your first shifts of the day in wintertime in Edson are a mite stiff... if possible, park facing downhill and start in 2nd for the first few shifts... Mind you, Edson is pretty flat... Re the gearing, well, at least you can pass without shifting... It is a 3300 or 3400 lb. car with only about 146 cu in motivating it... and Hondas make power with revs. Good car, in any case!

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by dfarr67
Well I have a 15 Accord.

- If I had gone V6, it would have had a conventional auto with shift paddles on the wheel, with programming probably a hoot to drive.
- but I bought a Sport with THE Honda 2.4L, currently the only auto is a cvt and in the far north I wasn't happy with the reliability reports of that particular trans- ended up with the MT6 which admittedly the only thing I don't like is 6th gear is not high enough, still revs 3000 at 115km. Other than that it is a good match and rare in that car. And so far with wifeys abuse has given no issues at all.


I've driven other 4 cylinder cars that have this issue with 6th gear. I think this is intentional, so that it keeps the engine in it's power band and you have to downshift less when climbing hills at highway speeds while getting the best mpg. If you lug the engine at lower RPM the fuel mileage will go out the window. 3000 RPM really isn't that high revving for a Honda engine, and they have very little low end torque anyway. 3000 RPM is the sweet spot for that engine for highway cruising.

 

[john_pifer]

I prefer a manual transmission, especially in smaller cars that don't have a lot of power. A manual gearbox just frees up some horsepower that would otherwise be robbed by an automatic. And there's just a more direct feel.

In a sporty car, it just goes without saying that a good ole manual ‘box is best. I personally wouldn't buy a sports car or sporty sedan with an automatic. I know the DSGs and automated manuals are faster around a racetrack. I don't care about that. My driving is mostly not on the track. What I'm interested in, is a fun and engaging driving experience.