Sorry if this has been asked by is Shell 87 Octane have the same
- Thread starter Tundra1
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They clearly advertise the Nitro as having more cleaning additives.
Also, in Ontario, they do advertise the V-Power Premium as having zero ethanol.
Also, in Ontario, they do advertise the V-Power Premium as having zero ethanol.
Exxon also advertises that their hi-test 93 octane has twice the detergent levels of their regular. However, all grades meet the Top Tier requirements. If mid grade is 2 parts regular and 1 part high test, then it would have 1.33 times the detergent of their regular gas.
Usually the add packs are the same, but several companies use more of it in the premium fuels.
BP was always one that got more additives in their premium grade at my terminal.
However, the additives are not put in "per product". In other words all 89 and 87 is additized at the 87 levels, there is not "a little bit more" additive in mid grade. Computers control the loading rack and the additive injectors so this is easily accomplished. Both Top Tech and Fuel Facs can do it through the recipes.
Kinda strike another blow against top tier in my opinion.
BP was always one that got more additives in their premium grade at my terminal.
However, the additives are not put in "per product". In other words all 89 and 87 is additized at the 87 levels, there is not "a little bit more" additive in mid grade. Computers control the loading rack and the additive injectors so this is easily accomplished. Both Top Tech and Fuel Facs can do it through the recipes.
Kinda strike another blow against top tier in my opinion.
Many of you know that I'm not a fan of top tier and consider it a marketing ploy.
If the lesser additized fuel meets top tier, then what would you call the premium grade? Top Top Tier? Oil companies typically use the amount of additive mandated by the EPA. Only saw additional additives used in a very small number of cases. And , nowhere have a seen any company say exactly how much extra additive their fuels contain.
And you are correct Boomer, IF the station has a blending pump, there would be slightly more additive in mid grade. I'm just not sure too many of those are in use today. A dispenser having a single hose does not necessarily mean that it is a blending pump. Yes, the old Sunoco pumps were, but you really need to check the station storage to determine if it blends at the pump.
I put out a LOT of mid grade over my loading racks in my time, believe me.
I don't think this is accurate. It is 5x the EPA requirement, which would be higher than min top tier requirement, but probably in line with others.
"With five times the EPA required amount of additives in our fuel, we are proud to call it Kirkland Signature™ Gasoline."
On the tests that I've seen Shell 93 has the highest premium grade additives and Exxon has the highest level of additives for regular grade gasoline
Well, You're right it is marketing. Whether it is a ploy or not is up to you the consumer. But the level of additives is important.
I guess you are claiming that companies are not following their Top Tier designation and only using the EPA mandated amount?
That is kind of a bold claim.
It's been a long time since I've run across a company willing to spend more money than necessary, particularly when the profit margin is so slim, and especially during these times of economic uncertainty. Pretty sure I just read that Exxon just cut the company match on the employee 401K plans.
You can make more markup on a twinkie than a gallon of gas.
Besides, how would anybody know? The State agencies can barely calibrate and test the dispensers to deliver the correct quantities of product. Last I heard (10 years ago) most states were "working" on being able to check octane ratings.
Just sayin'
But the big deal is that the pipeline/terminal operators are hardly ones that want to get in trouble for helping anyone cheat. They rely on getting industry standard fuels and their equipment meters everything properly. Also - in my state there's a mobile fuel lab that can test anything from refinery output to pipeline/terminal, and retail. Weights and measures here is a matter of county operations.
Mobile Fuels Laboratory | California Air Resources Board
In response to a need for increased sampling capability and faster turnaround time for sample analyses, in 1987 a fully-equipped and self-contained mobile fuels laboratory was built. The mobile lab allowed fuels inspectors to conduct analyses of the samples they obtained during inspections on...
ww2.arb.ca.gov
And it was noted that Costco claims that theirs uses 5x the EPA minimum (I think the industry term is "lowest additive concentration") although it's metered at the gas station and not at the fuel depot. Phillips (and their assorted brands) claim about 3x the EPA minimum. I have no reason to doubt that. The additive itself isn't that expensive, although it doesn't make sense to add more unless it can be used for marketing. The average independent isn't going to be able to out advertise Shell or Chevron, which generally charge a much higher price than the independents or convenience store brands.
Exactly...there's way too many steps in the process for everyone to be lying/cheating.
Leave your conspiracies elsewhere.
I was not referring to terminal or pipeline operations, but the stations themselves, which are monitored on the County level.
And I'm not inferring that terminals cheat, since that is where the additives are actually put in the fuel. They all have very capable meter testing equipment and ensure the accuracy on a regular basis. Including the accuracy of the additive meters.
All I'm saying is that stations can advertise whatever they like, including Top Tier, and there is no way that anyone can verify if it is being adhered to or not. There is also no standard, so what IF the fuel doesn't meet Top Tier add content....nobody knows what it's supposed to be anyway.
And I'm not inferring that terminals cheat, since that is where the additives are actually put in the fuel. They all have very capable meter testing equipment and ensure the accuracy on a regular basis. Including the accuracy of the additive meters.
All I'm saying is that stations can advertise whatever they like, including Top Tier, and there is no way that anyone can verify if it is being adhered to or not. There is also no standard, so what IF the fuel doesn't meet Top Tier add content....nobody knows what it's supposed to be anyway.
Their franchise agreement will say that they have to purchase all their fuel through their supplier, although delivery can be at (for example) a Kinder Morgan fuel terminal. I remember back when some branded gas station owners in California were asking to be able to buy fuel on the spot market in order to lower their prices. They weren't allowed to do so since that would get out that their fuels weren't as specified by the marketer. Gas station owners aren't able to secure individual Top Tier agreements as it's required across an entire brand. I have no doubt that this is being adhered to by fuel marketers. If anyone ever cheats on it they run the risk of losing tons of business and being sued for breach of contract. Also - what fuel hauling company would ship non-branded fuel to a branded gas station and risk being blackballed if word gets out?
Top Tier has a clear set of standards for additive performance. There's no requirement that anyone disclose exactly what's being used to the public, but this will be known to the terminal operators. They don't need to say "Contains Afton HiTEC 6590 additive" but they do get to say that it meets the Top Tier fuel additive requirements. It's strictly a performance standard and there are many ways to get there.
What is "non branded fuel"? All gasoline is shipped as fungible barrels, it doesn't become "branded" until the additives are put in at the loading rack.
I had 4 additive tanks at one of my terminals, Chevron, BP, Exxon, and Afton Chemical. All the gasoline was the same until it hit the tanker truck. Recipes for all stations did not vary by location or individual station. If it was BP, (as Supplier) it was getting BP additive and the correct amount for each octane (premium getting a little bit more) but the name on the station didn't need to be BP. It could be Kangaroo, etc.
Still doesn't tell me what top tier is, nor does it specify what performance improvements I can expect to get. It's a "Just trust me, it's better" kind of thing.
I had 4 additive tanks at one of my terminals, Chevron, BP, Exxon, and Afton Chemical. All the gasoline was the same until it hit the tanker truck. Recipes for all stations did not vary by location or individual station. If it was BP, (as Supplier) it was getting BP additive and the correct amount for each octane (premium getting a little bit more) but the name on the station didn't need to be BP. It could be Kangaroo, etc.
Still doesn't tell me what top tier is, nor does it specify what performance improvements I can expect to get. It's a "Just trust me, it's better" kind of thing.
It's "branded" as soon as it receives the specific additives at the proper level specified by the fuel marketer. I know that the base fuel itself is a fungible commodity.
Top Tier is actually quite simple. The fuel at the station has to contain an additive that's gone through testing procedures with a maximum level of deposits to meet the certification. It requires that such an additive as well that at least a minimum concentration of additive (that was used for the test) be used.
4.1 Retail Gasoline Performance Standards. The deposit control performance of an additive package conforming to section 4 of this document shall be included at the retail level in all grades of gasoline sold by a fuel company in all marketing areas of a selected nation. In addition, conformance to the standards shall mean gasoline sold in the selected nation shall not contain metallic additives, including methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT).
4.2 Deposit Control Additive Requirements. The deposit control additive used to meet the performance Standards described in 4.3 shall meet the substantially similar definition under Section 211(f) of the Clean Air Act. Also, the additive shall be certified to have met the minimum deposit control requirements established by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in 40 CFR Part 80. Lastly, the additive shall be registered with the EPA in accordance with 40 CFR Part 79.
The additive itself doesn't necessarily meet Top Tier requirements. But the additive plus a minimum concentration can meet Top Tier requirements. I go back to a previous link. Heck - the same "generic" additive can even meet different requirements in minimum legal concentration vs requirements to meet Top Tier standards. Afton calls this being "scaleable".
HiTEC® 6590’s patented technology was designed to meet the challenges of direct injection engine technology, while continuing
to deliver excellent performance in the traditional port fuel injection platform. A fully scalable additive with EPA and TOP TIER certification, HiTEC® 6590 delivers powerful keep-clean and clean-up performance at cost effective treat rates.
to deliver excellent performance in the traditional port fuel injection platform. A fully scalable additive with EPA and TOP TIER certification, HiTEC® 6590 delivers powerful keep-clean and clean-up performance at cost effective treat rates.
** **
Recommended Dosage
HiTEC® 6590 is EPA, LAC Final Rule and TOP TIER certified. Please contact your Afton Chemical representative for specific recommendations.
