Solid suspension bushings?

ExDelayed · Mar 15, 2004

I want to hear some pros and cons about solid suspension bushings in an independent suspension setup. Pretend that your only choices are OEM rubber or solid.

What I can think of so far would be:
Pros:
Absolutely no suspension deflection
Would wear out slower then stock rubber pieces
Road feel would be increased
Would need to be greaseable to decrease wear/sound

Cons:
Possibly noisy
Road feel would be increased
Would need to be greased

Discuss please.

XS650 · Mar 15, 2004

You need to carefully evaluate the path that each suspension componant moves through. If it isn't a simple rotation in one plane, true solid bushings would bind.

If you would also consider spherical rod ends, that wouldn't be a problem.

More noise and vibration will get into the chasis through solid bushings. Ride won't actually be much worse, but the extra noise and harshnes will make you think it's quite a bit worse.

If you don't seal them, then they won't last particularly long as dirt will get mixed in with the grease.

A popular compromise is graphite impregnated polyurethane bushings. Depending on the car and who's talking, they don't cause much ride deterioration while giving much crisper response. The polyurethane also handles dirt better than a true solid bushing. It's kind of like a very hard rubber, except polyurethane bushings do rotate with a rotational sliding motion as opposed to distorting like rubber bushings.

I think your pros and cons are good except solid bushings would most likely wear out faster than stock rubber bushings. (Some would say the stock rubber bushings are worn out when the car rolls out the factory door)

Sounds interesting, what are you up to?

I'm going to be installing a full set of graphite impregnated polyurethane bushings on a 96 Corvette about late April.

[ March 15, 2004, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: XS650 ]

ExDelayed · Mar 15, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by XS650:
Sounds interesting, what are you up to?

I'm going to be installing a full set of graphite impregnated polyurethane bushings on a 96 Corvette about late April.

Im looking for an option for my Contour. To date, the only replacement for the rubber bushings is to buy the entire control arm from Ford for almost $200 per side. The sad thing is this is one of those cars where the factory bushings are already on their last leg by the time the car leaves the factory. On looks alone, a 1000 mile part is already experiencing cracking. By 50K, pieces have started to come off of the bushing but the part is still tight (if you pry on it with your hand, the suspension is probably already quite loose. A 130K part looks a lot like the 50K part, but the mount to the car moves easily in all directions.

I think what makes it worse, I can get poly bushings for my truck (`77 Dodge) and it is almost twenty years older!

theguru · Mar 15, 2004

My son is looking at upgrading his already lowered suspension on his Nissan turbo and whilst they where going to use after market parts (Koni's or better etc) they recommended factory rubber bushes. They said in part that the suspension is too stiff otherwise and needs the compliance of the rubber to work properly.

TC · Mar 16, 2004

Going solid is a possibility for race cars, but even some of them (sports sedans and the like) often opt for polyurethane, nylon/delrin, and similar. On a street car, I suspect you'd regret such a decision to go solid pretty quickly for reasons already noted.

XS650 · Mar 16, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by TC:
Going solid is a possibility for race cars, but even some of them (sports sedans and the like) often opt for polyurethane, nylon/delrin, and similar. On a street car, I suspect you'd regret such a decision to go solid pretty quickly for reasons already noted.

The people that use Delrin usually say they are a lot harsher than polyurethane and too radical for street use.

For polyurethane, there is plain old polyurethane then there is graphite impregnated polyurethane. The graphite is supposed to make them much more sqeek resistant.

I also saw someplace (probably BITOG) that a tenacious Schafers grease (#221?) is better on the poly bushings than what comes with them.

I should know how they work by May.

Shannow · Mar 16, 2004

As others have pointed out, solid bushes in a road type suspension aren't going to do much except bind and wear.

When Peter Brock was working on the suspension for the A9X Torana, he is reputed to have replaced each bush in turn with an aluminium bush, and driven it hard. Trying to work out what does what.

He ended up working out which bushes need to be soft, which hard.

I've had great results with poly bushes.

Steve_RI · Mar 16, 2004

I put all poly bushings in my Pathfinder close to 1.5 years ago. I had some serious squeeking problems in the lower control arms....some #221 seems to have solved it. It's been about a year with the #221 in the lca's. I think the key is to use an Aluminum based grease.

XS650 · Mar 16, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Steve_RI:
I put all poly bushings in my Pathfinder close to 1.5 years ago. I had some serious squeeking problems in the lower control arms....some #221 seems to have solved it.

Did you use graphite impregneted poly or plain old poly?

What differences did you notice in ride and handling? Were the stock bushings good or shot when you replaced them?

SHOZ · Mar 16, 2004

Get TPR (thermo plastic resin) bushings. They are blue and Moog sells them. As good as polyurethane but no squeaking.

XS650 · Mar 16, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by SHOZ:
Get TPR (thermo plastic resin) bushings. They are blue and Moog sells them. As good as polyurethane but no squeaking.

I did the Google thing and can't find them for anything but a Ford SHO. Do you have any sources?

They sound real good for some applications.

Steve_RI · Mar 17, 2004

quote:

Did you use graphite impregneted poly or plain old poly?

What differences did you notice in ride and handling? Were the stock bushings good or shot when you replaced them? [/QB]

I think they were plain old poly. Are graphite impregnated certain colors because mine were red? I used Energy in the front and for the link arms in the rear I bought some poly bushings (blue)from a guy in Germany (at the time they were not available in the US - bushings were for a Terrano - the brand that comes to mind without checking is Super Flo?)

Well, the Pathy is an 89, so the bushings were not shot, but they were certainly not good. I put in new torsion bars at the same time, so it was night and day stiffness when I was done. The truck handles better overall with less roll. If I had to do it again I would use rubber in the lower control arm because it's a lot of work to get at those things. Regreasing them is a major PITA, then you need an alignment after messing with t-bars, etc.. If I have to go into that again rubber is going in. However, the #221 is working good so far.

XS650 · Mar 17, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Steve_RI:
I think they were plain old poly. Are graphite impregnated certain colors because mine were red?

All poly graphite bushings are black (it's the graphite), but not all black poly bushings are poly graphite.

Energy suspension seems to have gone mostly polygraphite and they are black because of the graphite.

Prothane makes red and black bushings, but their black bushings don't have graphite in them.

From what I have been able to find out, graphite impregnated poly bushings are the way to go, but the manufactuerers still recommend greasing them at installation.

Solid suspension bushings?

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