Small TGDI engine warmup/heat?

[dogememe]

Question... who has experience with small turbo GDI engines and their ability to create heat and stay warm?

For example, the 1.2T in the 2024 Trax, would it warm up relatively quickly? And retain cabin heater output warmth sitting in a drive-thru on a chilly morning?

Reason I ask is I have had other vehicles where temp gauge would drop if idling in a drive-thru and my heater would blow chilly until I started driving again.

 

[Pew]

I had the ford 1.0 Ecoboost in my focus. It struggled to stay in the middle of the coolant temp when outside was below freezing because of a bad thermostat but the heat coming out the vents was still fine. It got much hotter and faster than my cx5.

 

[wwillson]

1.4T in a 2014 Chevy Cruze. On cold days (< 0F), it really had a hard time making enough hot to keep the passengers warm while driving around town. On the highway it was fine.

 

[edyvw]

Question... who has experience with small turbo GDI engines and their ability to create heat and stay warm?

For example, the 1.2T in the 2024 Trax, would it warm up relatively quickly? And retain cabin heater output warmth sitting in a drive-thru on a chilly morning?

Reason I ask is I have had other vehicles where temp gauge would drop if idling in a drive-thru and my heater would blow chilly until I started driving again.

Depends on the manufacturer.
My Toyota Sienna with 3.5 V6 would need an eternity to warm up idling. Once we landed in Denver after Thanksgiving and the car was parked outside for 6 days. My wife was still breastfeeding our second child, and we got in and the daughter was hungry. Started the car, absolutely no heat after like 20min (the thermostat was fine). The engine started to warm up, and we started to get some heat only when we started to move. That is when I realized that the car wouldn't stay long in the garage with us.
On the other hand, her Tiguan with 2.0T (TGDI) warms up really fast idling. I always move as soon as I put belt etc, and Tiguan takes literally 2-3 miles to get the coolant temperature to the operating point. If it is really cold, maybe 5 or 0 degrees, it takes a bit longer, but the heat in the cabin is always there in no time. Same with BMW.

 

[Jetronic]

Depends on the manufacturer.
My Toyota Sienna with 3.5 V6 would need an eternity to warm up idling. Once we landed in Denver after Thanksgiving and the car was parked outside for 6 days. My wife was still breastfeeding our second child, and we got in and the daughter was hungry. Started the car, absolutely no heat after like 20min (the thermostat was fine). The engine started to warm up, and we started to get some heat only when we started to move. That is when I realized that the car wouldn't stay long in the garage with us.
On the other hand, her Tiguan with 2.0T (TGDI) warms up really fast idling. I always move as soon as I put belt etc, and Tiguan takes literally 2-3 miles to get the coolant temperature to the operating point. If it is really cold, maybe 5 or 0 degrees, it takes a bit longer, but the heat in the cabin is always there in no time. Same with BMW.

My giulietta diesel would take forever to get hot idling (maybe an hour if the outside was around freezing) and would not get fully warm while driving until the cabin got up to temp. But I started to get some heat out after a minute or 2-3, it just used all of it to heat the cabin.

Go down a hill for a few hundred yards and watch the temp drop again; no throttle input but the ehater keeps going of course. Not an issue unless I start the cold car on the top of a cold hill. Better get the cabin up to temp before going down.

I don't think the QV (gas version of the same engine, smaller displacement) is nearly as efficient

 

[michaelluscher]

The 2.0T LSY in our 2020 XT4 needed a PCM update to keep the heat going in cooler weather
Once it gets hot, it's pretty consistent

I'm now disappointed in my 3.3 V6 Camry, you can almost watch the temp gauge go backwards if you don't give it enough warm up time

I thought the 2.5 I4 in my Fusion would be a downgrade, but it warms up lightning fast and the heat keeps on coming

 

[atikovi]

No seat heaters?

 

[Number_35]

The difference in warm-up time between different engines is really noticable here, where the winters can be very cold.

I'd say that an iron block warms up way faster than aluminum.

 

[supton]

I would expect most gas engines to heat up quickly—cold engines pollute more, and cold start / cold running emissions are regulated, so, heat up quickly. Coolant is always circulating in the engine, even when it’s not allowed to go to the radiator, and that coolant is what the heater core should be tapping.

My old TDI, now that didn’t like to heat up in winter… not at idle. Not a problem with seat heaters, but a major problem if we had an ice storm. Most cars, just start and let idle for 5-10 minutes, on defrost, and that is enough to get the ice thawed on the windshield so you can scrape. Not that car!

 

[dogememe]

The 2.0T LSY in our 2020 XT4 needed a PCM update to keep the heat going in cooler weather
Once it gets hot, it's pretty consistent

I'm now disappointed in my 3.3 V6 Camry, you can almost watch the temp gauge go backwards if you don't give it enough warm up time

I thought the 2.5 I4 in my Fusion would be a downgrade, but it warms up lightning fast and the heat keeps on coming

That’s the thing, the worst offender was the Escape with the 2.5. At my old place I’d drive 5 miles, then try to go through the drive-thru, nope, I’d watch it and feel it get cold again.

I thought the thermostat was bad but a new Motorcraft thermostat made no difference.

 

[TheLastWord]

The difference in warm-up time between different engines is really noticable here, where the winters can be very cold.

I'd say that an iron block warms up way faster than aluminum.

Not even close, Aluminum is much faster.

But also cools quicker.

 

[dumkid]

Aluminum warms up faster, yes. But it also cools off faster when you're idling around with the heater cranked.

 

[pezzy84]

My only experience are VW 2.0T and 1.9 and 2.0 TDI's. The 2.0T gasser warmed up scarily fast - iron block/aluminum head design. TDI's were polar opposite because of the thermal efficiency. My old school '03 TDI (rotary pump) would cool off when idling in near freezing temps and struggled to hit operating temps even after multiple miles on the freeway, VW put glow plugs in the coolant stream by the thermostat to help on the manual transmission models (3 glow plugs IIRC). My common rail 2012 TDI would turn on the blow torch furnace in the exhaust stream to help warm it up (same mode as regeneration where it injects fuel in the exhaust stream pre-DPF) but even then it would barely be at operating temps 4 miles later when it was near freezing, that car would also have coolant temps dip below normal operating temperature when idling in near/below freezing temps as well.

 

[Number_35]

Not even close, Aluminum is much faster.

But also cools quicker.akes sense - Al has a much higher thermal coefficient than Fe.

That makes sense - I had a bout of cranial flatulence.

So what I should have said was that I get winter heat faster with an iron block, due to the aluminum block absorbing much more of the heat from the coolant.

I wish I could remember the exact numbers, but when I was researching new windows back in the 1980s, a PVC window manufacturer listed the heat conductivity of different materials. A lower number meant the product was a better thermal insulator.

As I recall:

PVC = 9.8

Wood = 10.0

Aluminum = 4096

I wish they had listed iron and steel as well.

 

[Finklejag]

If the exhaust manifold is integrated into the head like most VW turbo 4’s, then yes it will heat up fast.

 

[Rmay635703]

Question... who has experience with small turbo GDI engines and their ability to create heat and stay warm?

For example, the 1.2T in the 2024 Trax, would it warm up relatively quickly? And retain cabin heater output warmth sitting in a drive-thru on a chilly morning?

Reason I ask is I have had other vehicles where temp gauge would drop if idling in a drive-thru and my heater would blow chilly until I started driving again.

You have to buy an aftermarket temp guage but I’ve driven small efficient vehicles my whole life.

In all cases a block heater and grill block (at least partial) was the only way to get strong heat.

However, most of these cars heated up quickly, just that they didn’t ever get to full operating temperature.

 

[JavierH19]

I really wish cars could have optional resistive heaters inside the air vents with a higher amp alternator so they immediately start throwing heat out until the coolant temp rises in really cold climates. But even then idling in a storm or traffic will lower the coolant temp again so a smart system that adjusts power to the coils to keep temp would be nice. Heated seats and steering wheel isn't enough in brutal cold temps when you're idling.

 

[Rmay635703]

I really wish cars could have optional resistive heaters inside the air vents with a higher amp alternator so they immediately start throwing heat out until the coolant temp rises in really cold climates. But even then idling in a storm or traffic will lower the coolant temp again so a smart system that adjusts power to the coils to keep temp would be nice. Heated seats and steering wheel isn't enough in brutal cold temps when you're idling.

In this area certain conditions make your windshield ice up inside and outside the window.

Need tons of heat to keep it clear to the point you gotta crack a window

 

[OVERKILL]

I really wish cars could have optional resistive heaters inside the air vents with a higher amp alternator so they immediately start throwing heat out until the coolant temp rises in really cold climates. But even then idling in a storm or traffic will lower the coolant temp again so a smart system that adjusts power to the coils to keep temp would be nice. Heated seats and steering wheel isn't enough in brutal cold temps when you're idling.

Apparently, FCA has been fitting the diesels with these. Not sure if the DT non-diesel has it, but it gets heat basically instantly in the winter, so there's something going on there that we really appreciate.

 

[edyvw]

I really wish cars could have optional resistive heaters inside the air vents with a higher amp alternator so they immediately start throwing heat out until the coolant temp rises in really cold climates. But even then idling in a storm or traffic will lower the coolant temp again so a smart system that adjusts power to the coils to keep temp would be nice. Heated seats and steering wheel isn't enough in brutal cold temps when you're idling.

BMW diesels have that. Until coolant reaches 120f, it is electric heater.