Shell oils with PurePlus technology: any feedback?

[volodymyr]

Jetronic,

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
for a ower pour point look at elf excellium full-tech 0w-30. -54°C


I am really into viscosity OCD. My car specs 5W-30, therefore I am using only 5W-30. My car also specs "ACEA A1/B1 A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2 or C3" SAE 5W-30 with OCI 15’000 km (9320 miles) and among those specs I choose A3/B4/MB 229.5. In my area I get these oils with MB 229.5. If I sort them by pour point the best I can get is Valvoline SynPower 5W-30 with -45C (-49F): SynPower tds

 

[1JZ_E46]

I will be using PP Euro 5W-40 with the next oil change in my X5. Nearly identical to SHU from what I hear. I am aiming to lower consumption (which the N62 is notorious for), and the low NOACK should help.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: volodymyr
Jetronic,

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
for a ower pour point look at elf excellium full-tech 0w-30. -54°C


I am really into viscosity OCD. My car specs 5W-30, therefore I am using only 5W-30. My car also specs "ACEA A1/B1 A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2 or C3" SAE 5W-30 with OCI 15’000 km (9320 miles) and among those specs I choose A3/B4/MB 229.5. In my area I get these oils with MB 229.5. If I sort them by pour point the best I can get is Valvoline SynPower 5W-30 with -45C (-49F): SynPower tds





Would you not use your car below -30°C then, or just take a chance with the 5w-30?

"ACEA A1/B1 A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2 or C3" trumps the sae viscosity

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
I will be using PP Euro 5W-40 with the next oil change in my X5. Nearly identical to SHU from what I hear. I am aiming to lower consumption (which the N62 is notorious for), and the low NOACK should help.


Remember that you need to use the same oil a few times consecutive to make any judgements about consumption.

 

[volodymyr]

Jetronic,

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Would you not use your car below -30°C then, or just take a chance with the 5w-30?


Why -30C and not -47C?

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
"ACEA A1/B1 A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2 or C3" trumps the sae viscosity


I guess I am reaching the limits of my English here since I am not a native speaker. Can you please elaborate more on this statement?

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
I will be using PP Euro 5W-40 with the next oil change in my X5. Nearly identical to SHU from what I hear. I am aiming to lower consumption (which the N62 is notorious for), and the low NOACK should help.


Remember that you need to use the same oil a few times consecutive to make any judgements about consumption.


Noted.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: volodymyr
Jetronic,

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Would you not use your car below -30°C then, or just take a chance with the 5w-30?


Why -30C and not -47C?

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
"ACEA A1/B1 A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2 or C3" trumps the sae viscosity


I guess I am reaching the limits of my English here since I am not a native speaker. Can you please elaborate more on this statement?


the pour point is meaningless as a measure of how an oil performs when cold. oil that's still moving isn't necessarily pumpable, or might be thick enough not to allow the engine to crank. that's what the 5w means: crankable oil to -30°C and pumpable to -35, if the oil is new and unused. The oil is allowed to slip to a 10w by the end of the oci, so would be guaranteed pumpable at -30°C, and the engine startable to -25°C.

a 0w can go down to -35°C and 40°C when new.

As far tas the certifications needed: any A3/B4 is as good as another as far as viscosity goes, and much better than the API SN SAE 5w30 quality and viscosity grade. the typical API SN 5w30 would be an ILSAC oil anyway. You pick one grade from that list, not look to combine them. In Europe generally we should be looking at the ACEA grades exclusively if they're given, and there are no maufacturer oil specs (like MB229.5 or BMW LL-01, Renault RN0700 etc...)

 

[Jetronic]

To rephrase the last point:

You can't quantify an oil just by it's API spece, as it doesn't say anything about it's viscosity. so, they add the SAE viscosity.

ACEA grades do include viscosity:

ACEA A1/B1: high temperature / high shear rate viscosity of 2.6 mPa*s for xW/20 and 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s for all other viscosity grades.

ACEA A3/B3: high temperature / high shear rate viscosity minimum of 3.5 mPa.s

ACEA A3/B4: high temperature / high shear rate viscosity minimum of 3.5 mPa.s

ACEA A5/B5: High temperature / High shear rate (HTHS) viscosity of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s.

ACEA C2: minimum HTHS viscosity of 2.9mPa.s.

ACEA C3: minimum HTHS viscosity of 3.5mPa.s.

 

[volodymyr]

Jetronic,

Thanks for the explanations. Well, then I will not use my car in severe cold conditions )))

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
the pour point is meaningless as a measure of how an oil performs when cold. oil that's still moving isn't necessarily pumpable, or might be thick enough not to allow the engine to crank. that's what the 5w means: crankable oil to -30°C and pumpable to -35, if the oil is new and unused. The oil is allowed to slip to a 10w by the end of the oci, so would be guaranteed pumpable at -30°C, and the engine startable to -25°C.

a 0w can go down to -35°C and 40°C when new.

As far tas the certifications needed: any A3/B4 is as good as another as far as viscosity goes, and much better than the API SN SAE 5w30 quality and viscosity grade. the typical API SN 5w30 would be an ILSAC oil anyway. You pick one grade from that list, not look to combine them. In Europe generally we should be looking at the ACEA grades exclusively if they're given, and there are no maufacturer oil specs (like MB229.5 or BMW LL-01, Renault RN0700 etc...)

Jetronic,
thanks for the well presented explanations here.
Am I right to interprete that a 5Wxx oil would be fit for use at -35*C, as intended in an engine ?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: volodymyr
Thanks for the explanations. Well, then I will not use my car in severe cold conditions )))

I don't think the real concern is 5w-30 in -35. I've done it. I think he's just trying to point out to you that not all 5w-30 examples are identical, particularly when you compare HTHS. A 5w-30 A3/B4 or E7, E9 or C3 is significantly thicker at operating temperatures (HTHS of 3.5 or higher) than an A1/B1 A5/B5 5w-30, which will have an HTHS close to 2.9 or 3.0.

You said you were OCD about viscosity, and that's fair. However, your OEM clearly isn't OCD about viscosity, since they aren't tying you solely to a fuel economy 5w-30 or to a higher HTHS 5w-30.

 

[SonofJoe]

One point that's worth bearing in mind is that any commercial oil you buy off the shelf is to some extent,always going to be BETTER than the specification.
Nowhere is this truer than in the US where oil CCS's and MRV's are deliberately set way lower than the specs in order to pass the requisite fuel economy tests.
The effect of this is to provide you with an extra cushion of low temperature operability that you might not expect, just by looking at the specs in isolation.

 

[Shannow]

My edge 5W30 A3/B4 data sheets give a pour point of -36C...really are a different animal to the US ILSAC oils

 

[Garak]

Our Edge 5w-30 A3/B4 has the same pour point, if I recall correctly. I've brought that up here before as rather high for a synthetic 5w-30, but I doubt that would stop me from using it.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
One point that's worth bearing in mind is that any commercial oil you buy off the shelf is to some extent,always going to be BETTER than the specification.
Nowhere is this truer than in the US where oil CCS's and MRV's are deliberately set way lower than the specs in order to pass the requisite fuel economy tests.
The effect of this is to provide you with an extra cushion of low temperature operability that you might not expect, just by looking at the specs in isolation.

+1

 

[turboseize]

The lab report has arrived:

Blog: https://turboseize.wordpress.com/2016/08...-turbo-b202l-2/

or http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4185938#Post4185938 , for translation to english.

Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km oci with oem GM oil filter in a vintage Saab 900 turbo.
I'm a bit puzzled by the reduced dispergenc (literally dirt carrying capacity - "Schmutztragevermögen"). Either the base oil and the viscosity index improvers start to brake up and the oil is ocupied with itself (but would we not viscosity index and oxidation suffer then?), or the oil is indeed doing a better job at cleaning up.

Anyways, wear metals read early the same on all three samples, but the Shell is by far the cheapest oil of the three.

 

[volodymyr]

turboseize,

I wonder if the lab you used also accepts samples from "near abroad" like CH? SHU is indeed the cheapest here as well, I am almost convinced to move to this oil

 

[turboseize]

Why would they not? Can't hurt to ask.
www.oelcheck.de

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: turboseize
The lab report has arrived:

Blog: https://turboseize.wordpress.com/2016/08...-turbo-b202l-2/

or http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4185938#Post4185938 , for translation to english.

Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40, 10782km oci with oem GM oil filter in a vintage Saab 900 turbo.
I'm a bit puzzled by the reduced dispergenc (literally dirt carrying capacity - "Schmutztragevermögen"). Either the base oil and the viscosity index improvers start to brake up and the oil is ocupied with itself (but would we not viscosity index and oxidation suffer then?), or the oil is indeed doing a better job at cleaning up.

Anyways, wear metals read early the same on all three samples, but the Shell is by far the cheapest oil of the three.


Quite low additive concentrations for an A3/B4 oil. The Aral reads even lower of course, but the Mobil has the highest, and the highest TBN. Seems like you lost some viscosity, due to fuel dilution maybe?

Any subjective observations, like noise levels etc?

 

[turboseize]

I had had some light ticking from the hydraulic tappets for a long time. Either upon cold start, or when very hot. This was also remarkable with the Aral and gradually got worse during the first interval of the Shell. It became horrible at the start of the second interval(which this sample is from). Very pronounced noise on cold start, and sometimes slight ticking when hot. Throughout the interval, this improved. During the last 1500km of the interval, the car was driven in a quite sprited manner for some hundred km. Sprited in a "the M5-could-not-get-away"-manner on some remote german and french country roads, the result surprising both the M5 driver and the good friend of mine driving the Saab (and who has owned several sportscars, including a RX-7 FC and Maserati Biturbo and who currently drives a Maserati 3200). Or spirited in a "it's-late-and-i-want-to-go-home-and-there's-no-speed-limit"-way, when I got the car back. After that, no noise anymore whatsoever.
Im now on my third interval with the Shell, and this time there is NO cold start noise and no hot lifter hydro-tappet tick whatsoever.
Perhaps this also was a matter of the filter? Last Aral and first Shell interval we used Champion C165 , second Shell oci was with orginal GM 55560202, currently Mann w712/80).
Or there were some residues left somewhere in a hydraulic tappet, which the Shell only managed to clean out when we got it really hot. (As in "turbocharger-glowing-yellow"-hot.) It can't have done any major harm, though, otherwise we'd see something in the uoa.