run straight coolant - NO water

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Doesn't coolant also lubricate the water pump?

No i doesn't. In fact the seals used in a modern water pump are specifically designed to resist ethylene glycol.
The bearing is sealed and the coolant/antifreeze plays no role at all as far as the seal or bearing is concerned, not even to preserve the seal in some way.

http://www.skf.com/group/products/seals/...eals/index.html


OP
Straight coolant is is not very effective it is supposed to be mixed to be most effective. 50/50 mix with distilled or deionized water is the most efficient mixture.
electrolysis is a serious issue and is even a bigger problem with so many dissimilar metals and additional electrical components being used in cars and engines.

Product like water Wetter and similar are for racing so the engines can take advantage of waters better heat transfer, while it may offer some corrosion inhibitors its primary job is to reduce surface tension of the water and prevent cavitation in the heads.
Not really for everyday usage.

http://www.erareplicas.com/427man/cooling/electolysis/

 

[901Memphis]

You will over heat if you run straight coolant unless you're system is older and oversized for the job.

Most everything I've seen made within the last 15+ years doesn't have oversized cooling systems due to emissions standards. Interesting enough my Taurus seems to have a much larger radiator than needed and it's a 99. My Buick is undersized If anything.

You need water at least 30% for proper heat transfer.

 

[simple_gifts]

Originally Posted By: qdeezie
What are you trying to accomplish is the question.


+1; solution to a problem that, in this day and age, has already been solved my materials and targeted coolants.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

70/30 mix antifreeze/water (*this makes "Coolant") is the highest to go.... if you live somewhere REALLY cold.

50/50 Ethylene Glycol green/water.

Though I heard some people put in less antifreeze than 50%, and more water.. ??

 

[MalfunctionProne]

If you need to flush... uee water, and a flush.

If you live desert... use water, and a WP (Water Pump) lube. Or WW (Water Wetter.) WATER WETTER DOES NOT WORK WITH ANTIFREEZE.

DO NOT RUN 100% ETHYLENE GLYCOL.

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
If you need to flush... uee water, and a flush.

If you live desert... use water, and a WP (Water Pump) lube. Or WW (Water Wetter.) WATER WETTER DOES NOT WORK WITH ANTIFREEZE.

DO NOT RUN 100% ETHYLENE GLYCOL.


Water pump lube? You're kidding right?

 

[mlatour]

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
70/30 mix antifreeze/water (*this makes "Coolant") is the highest to go.... if you live somewhere REALLY cold.

50/50 Ethylene Glycol green/water.

Though I heard some people put in less antifreeze than 50%, and more water.. ??


I do in my YZ125 dirtbike.
Looking for maximum heat transfer with a bit of anti-corrosion/lubricant, I run it at 70% water / 30% G-05.

Compared to 4 strokes, 2 stroke engine dirtbikes run much cooler (even at a slow pace)
and nowhere near boiling-over unless the radiators are packed with mud.

Of course I drain the cooling system before winter storage, well before ambiant temps are below freezing.

 

[turtlevette]

If you use straight antifreeze, use propylene glycol ie Sierra. Conventional antifreeze, ie ethylene glycol, does not protect for very cold temps at 100 percent. Freeze protection for EG peaks at 70% concentration then lessens as you further concentrate towards 100%.

 

[Oro_O]

This is why you don't run straight anti-freeze. It is barely better than water for freezing protection. If you live in south Florida or LA, you could do it. Otherwise, very bad idea.

http://theamcforum.com/forum/overheating-due-to-100-antifreeze_topic32939_page2.html

It's the mixing of the ethylene glycol and water molecules that separates like from like and depresses the freezing point. This graph also shows why you don't buy the 50/50 mix but rather but a $1 gallon of dH20 at the grocery and mix 55/45 or 60/40. Run prop. glycol if running straight.

Edit: Oops, I see this was just addressed. Sorry if redundant.

 

[Warstud]

A guy I work with put straight anti-freeze in his car. And when we left work one night it was about ten degrees outside. His car ran for about 20 minutes until it burned up. The same retard decided to run straight 30wt in a car the following year...under the same conditions. Guess what happend?

 

[Ethan1]

Originally Posted By: slomo
Who's actually ran on straight coolant?

slomo


I used to work at a shop that was putting 100% coolant in everyone's car for some reason.

What a waste of money!

I never noticed any ill effects. The temp gauge still stayed a bit below the middle like it always had.

 

[barkingspider]

My dad ran straight tap water in his cooling system back in the late 1970s when we lived in Hawaii. The car rusted out before the radiator. The most coolant I would run is 50%. I run my cars about 35-40% coolant , the rest distilled water. My vehicles run normal.

 

[Y_K]

I know a few taxi cab drivers who swear by running straight old silicate coolant (Green traditional, may be of any color, e.g. Yellow from Ford) in the older Panthers. FWIW, of course. Never did this myself. As always, there should be a trade-off somewhere.
If you want to delve in the physical chemistry of it, search for 'ebullioscopic effect' and 'cryoscopic effect'. Interesting history of discovery.. In short, Francois-Marie Raoult had an absent-minded assistant who made a salt solution and put it on his work bench for his next experiment by mistake instead of distilled water.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Doesn't coolant also lubricate the water pump?


Yes and the people who run straight water burn their pumps up.

 

[2009Edge]

The sodium caused problems in a water environment.

 

[KrisZ]

Higher boiling point does not equal better heat transfer. I don't see any advantage in running 100% antifreeze! I don't even see any advantage in running 70/30, unless in extremely cold climates. 50/50 provides the best compromise between heat transfer efficiency, corrosion and cavitation protection and antifreeze point for most climates.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: slomo
Can we do this safely? Pros and cons for why and why not please.

Seems like if we stop using water there will be no corrosion issues. Only thing left is heat transfer.

How about that Evan's Waterless Coolant?

slomo

There are three major problems with that:

(1) Pure antifreeze is very thin and will leak through tiny apertures, causing low coolant level, which causes corrosion, as the system will be exposed to air.

(2) Antifreeze has poor heat-transfer properties and the engine will run a lot hotter with pure antifreeze.

(3) Melting point of pure antifreeze is around 10 F (-12 C) and your system will freeze in the winter. Melting point gets much lower when you mix with water.

So, don't do it. It's really bad for your engine. Antifreeze is designed to provide its intended corrosion protection at 50% concentration. Unless you live in a very cold climate, 50% is the optimal concentration. You can go up to 60 - 65% in very cold climates with loss of performance but never exceed 70%.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
If you use straight antifreeze, use propylene glycol ie Sierra. Conventional antifreeze, ie ethylene glycol, does not protect for very cold temps at 100 percent. Freeze protection for EG peaks at 70% concentration then lessens as you further concentrate towards 100%.

Nice graph. At 70% EG/30% H20, the freezing point is -90F. I think I would opt to stay home at a balmy -40F.

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: Warstud
A guy I work with put straight anti-freeze in his car. And when we left work one night it was about ten degrees outside. His car ran for about 20 minutes until it burned up. The same retard decided to run straight 30wt in a car the following year...under the same conditions. Guess what happend?


Yep same thing happend to a co worker same story. I tried to explain to him it needed to be 50% water in his system but he kept insisting he called the dealership and got the correct anti freeze and they told him to put full strength in it. HE overheated in the dead of winter last year when it was -15F with straight anti freeze.

He also had trouble cranking the car in these temperatures because he refused to use the proper 5w30 oil his car called for insisting on 10w40.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
You will over heat if you run straight coolant unless you're system is older and oversized for the job.

You need water at least 30% for proper heat transfer.

Heat transfer wise it doesn't matter whether you use 100% water or 100% coolant. I know it seems counter intuitive..the only thing water does is hold more btu's. This means the temp will rise slower. The coolant to air transfer surface in the radiator is the main facter affecting engine steady state temperature.

We wrote a Fortran IV program on that subject when I was in engineering school almost 50 years ago.