Response from Pennzoil on Ultra

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digitalSniperX1

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What follows is an email exchange between them and myself.

I'm asking for opinions/insight on their response.



Dear Robert,

correct, only the 5w30 for your HTO-06 specs.

To answer your other questions; in the engine the seal that keeps the
oil out of the combustion chamber is the piston ring. However, in
the in the lubrication some tiny amount always get across as the ring
goes up and down the cylinder wall. Thus, the combustion process
will burn off the oil and exhaust it out of the vehicle.

Our Pennzoil Ultra is designed to burn Clean; not like other oils out
there. Thus, if it burns clean (hopefully you are using good quality
gasoline), then it would not leave residue in your "crowns". By
working closely with the cleanser in the gasoline, then your engine
should be clean and remain clean.

Regards,
Technical Service, sn

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:56:44 -0500 you wrote:



First let me say I know that Pennzoil ultra is amongst the top tier
oils
available, if not the top oil available. I use it in my Acura RDX
(HTO-06)
and Mazdaspeed 3.

It is however becoming difficult to find at Walmart and is
exceedingly
expensive at Pep Boys.

I have a couple of technical questions.

The Pennzoil Ultra line of oils promote its ability to keep engines
factory
clean, especially on the pistons.

1. How does oil "clean" or keep clean piston tops/crowns (since oil
isn't
pumped into the combustion chamber)? Is this done via oil vapors
that reach
there through the PCV?
2. Related to question 1, does Pennzoil Ultra help with carbon
deposits created
on the valves of direct injected engines in a way similar to how it
helps keep
piston crowns clean?


I have on criticism. While I'm a big fan of Pennzoil products and
use them
almost exclusively, the website is in a very poor state. For
example, the RDX
oil recommendation is 5W-20 and mentions nothing about HTO-06
although Pennzoil
does print compliance with that spec on both Platinum and Ultra
bottles.

To be sure the manufacturer recommends HTO-06 compliant oils and
those only
come in 5w30.

Thanks in advance for your answers.
 
Well they did NOT answer the question on deposits on the intake valves in DI motors did they?
21.gif


I don't think there is anything in the oil or fuel we can do to prevent deposits in "normal" DI motors. Add an injector BEFORE the valves and maybe that could help the issue.

Bill
 
Well, no they didn't answer that question...and that in combination with their answer means the answer is most likely "No, it doesn't do anything for intake valve deposits on direct injected engines".

However, the claim that it keeps engines cleaner by burning cleaner is (maybe) and interesting thing to discuss.

And, to your point, I'd agree there seems no oils capable of helping in this situation. Looks like BG's direct injection cleaning service will be my friend.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Well they did NOT answer the question on deposits on the intake valves in DI motors did they?
21.gif


I don't think there is anything in the oil or fuel we can do to prevent deposits in "normal" DI motors. Add an injector BEFORE the valves and maybe that could help the issue.

Bill

How big of a problem do you think this 'deposit on intake valves in DI motors' is? I have had no issues with my 2008 MS3, although admittedly I haven't put a lot of miles on it. Mazda must be comfortable with DI as they are taking it to the next level with their new "SkyActiv-G" engines with 14.0:1 compression.
 
Last edited:
Mazda (and other MFG) have no choice on DI motors.

Its whatever makes the numbers on the MPG look good to the "powers to be". Plus it makes the smog numbers look better.

For some of us DI is something I'll avoid (and did since I just bought a new vehicle and had the choice of a DI or non-DI motor) as long as I can.

As someone who puts a LOT of miles on engines (my 2005 Corolla is coming up to 225k, 394k on a 86 Jetta) I don't want to deal with the deposit issue.

Take care, bill
 
It's a problem. Not a huge problem. But still a problem. You can investigate the solutions on other sites.

Mine has 7500 miles now and I can feel a reduction in power. Don't get me wrong, it's still pretty darn fast but it's a tad bit slower now. And the fuel economy is down a bit.

I plan to stay on top of it though as the BG system shows promise. Not sure what my dealer will charge me but around 150 dollars every 15,000 miles isn't disgusting, it's just a little much. If I can find a good independent, i'll go there.
 
Originally Posted By: digitalSniperX1
It's a problem. Not a huge problem. But still a problem. You can investigate the solutions on other sites.

Mine has 7500 miles now and I can feel a reduction in power. Don't get me wrong, it's still pretty darn fast but it's a tad bit slower now. And the fuel economy is down a bit.

I plan to stay on top of it though as the BG system shows promise. Not sure what my dealer will charge me but around 150 dollars every 15,000 miles isn't disgusting, it's just a little much. If I can find a good independent, i'll go there.





What is TRAV's input on cleaning the DI engines?
 
Have to strongly agree Bill. We have a couple of good friends
with Audi's and VW's and they are seeing problems with valve
deposits within 10-20K miles of use. Once out of warranty, the "fixes" have become quite expensive. Like you, and many others here, we'll just stay away from anything with DI until
the MFR's get it right and owners don't have to be the "guinea
pigs."

BTW, Lexus uses an injector BEFORE the intake valve along with
DI in one of their engines. Rather complicates the fuel
injection process, but I've heard no complaints about and kind
of valve deposit problems like Audi, VW, and others.
 
Originally Posted By: digitalSniperX1
Not sure what my dealer will charge me but around 150 dollars every 15,000 miles isn't disgusting, it's just a little much.

$150 would not be so bad. Supposedly on some cars it's as high as $1200 if you need to disassemble the engine to do it properly...

http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/06/direct-injection-fouls-some-early-adopters.html

Now I'm expecting to hear comments such as "If you can afford an RS4, you should be able to afford an additional $1200 in maintenance every 10K miles."
 
Before and after pictures using the BG system shows promise. I'd say it's only effective though if it's kept as regular maintenance.

1200 dollars would be absurd. I'm guessing that's an intake/head removal.

There are threads on other sites where some have removed the intake and done it manually in an afternoon...which wouldn't be so bad either...just a pain.
 
I'm simply addressing the part of the post dealing with the RDX. I don't know what the Pennzoil website recommendation for the oil viscosity is, but I know what owners manual says and that's what I'd go by. The RDX calls for 5w30 meeting the HTO-06 spec. Afaik, there is no 5w20 that meets that spec. So forget the website and follow what the OM says.

I agree they could do a better job of keeping up the site with the latest certs, but as said, both PP and PU say it on the bottles. I think the lack of communication between the folks keeping up the site, and the technical dept. has been talked about here before.

FYI, QSUD 5w30 now meets the HT0-06 spec too, but it has yet to be added to the QS site.
 
I don't like the part where they simply IGNORE your question about the cleaning of DI engines.

A straight answer is always better than ignoring the question. Bad form on the part of Pennzoil.
 
An extra injector spraying ON the valve, not upstream is what we want. This is what most cars use - port injection. Spraying upstream results in irregularities - that's why TB injection is not used anymore.
 
What is the main cause of deposits on intake valves in DI engines? Is it oil through the PVC system or exhaust gas recirculation? Would a catch can in the PVC circuit eliminate the deposits, or simply slow them down?
 
What "irregularities" ? Well engineered port injection
has contributed to PROBLEM FREE excellent performing engines for many years and still does. It's not even remotely related to to "TB" injection. Some of the best performing
problem free engines use port injection.

Until the MFR's solve the DI valve deposit issues, the
owners of those engines face the prospect of cleaning up
after the MFR's mess.
 
Originally Posted By: OldCowboy
What is the main cause of deposits on intake valves in DI engines? Is it oil through the PVC system or exhaust gas recirculation? Would a catch can in the PVC circuit eliminate the deposits, or simply slow them down?


That's a good question. I'm sure the MFG's know. Some (owners) are blocking off EGR's and installing catch cans to combat it. I've no idea how effective it is.

The Audi/VW problems seem to be the worst.

GM and Ford have stated they have an answer to it which involves valve timing in relation to something like piston position, and it includes both exhaust and intake valve timing (I read a paper on this I'll try to find).

I think they've both patented their solutions.


The Mazdas are such a low volume vehicle it's difficult to get any information on them,
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: digitalSniperX1
Not sure what my dealer will charge me but around 150 dollars every 15,000 miles isn't disgusting, it's just a little much.

$150 would not be so bad. Supposedly on some cars it's as high as $1200 if you need to disassemble the engine to do it properly...

http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/06/direct-injection-fouls-some-early-adopters.html

Now I'm expecting to hear comments such as "If you can afford an RS4, you should be able to afford an additional $1200 in maintenance every 10K miles."


If you can afford an RS4, you should be able to afford an additional $1200 in maintenance every 10K miles.
crackmeup2.gif
Sorry, I had to.
 
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
What "irregularities" ? Well engineered port injection
has contributed to PROBLEM FREE excellent performing engines for many years and still does. It's not even remotely related to to "TB" injection. Some of the best performing
problem free engines use port injection.

Until the MFR's solve the DI valve deposit issues, the
owners of those engines face the prospect of cleaning up
after the MFR's mess.


Well said, I totally agree. Reading in this thread GM seems to claim they found a solution and have a patent on it. Interesting, especially to all those people driving a GM car with the "problem DI system". I guess they'll have to suffer through it until they can afford a GM, problem free, DI engine equipped vehicle. I guess the same holds through for Audi Drivers, and anyone else with older DI engines that are having problems. Flame suit on............LOL Maybe a nice class action lawsuit is in order.......
 
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