Replacing some outlets, have questions......

[daves87rs]

Hi guys and Merry Christmas!

I want to replace some outlets in my home, as some are acting up (or simply dying) When I bought the house a few years back, we had plenty of electrical work to do (like the whole house running on six circuits-now 12), but the only thing I did not replace was the outlets.

Should be pretty simple to replace, but I have questions. The first ones I plan to do are in the Kitchen (1), and living room (3). (also know one in kitchen will be Gfci even though it is nowhere near sink) Was wondering if you guys had tips or suggestions (or good brands to get) about this. Also, I have noticed the choice in amps, and was wondering about the difference needed between the 15 and 20 amp.

Since we seem to charge quite a few things around here, wanted to make sure I do things right. Thank you!

 

[JHZR2]

The regular units sold at HD and Lowes are pretty standard and seem fine by me.

Is your wiring fairly up to date? Is there a properly sized copper ground?

IMO its prudent to use a GFCI at the first position in any circuit, especially if in a kitchen or if there are undersize/BX/no grounds. Some applications shouldn't use GFCI, like a freezer or refrigerator, in case it trips inadvertently.

I dont see a reason to use 20A outlets. First, are your breakers 15A or 20A? Is the wire used rated for ampacity of 15 or 20A of regular service (typically 14 vs 12ga)? A 15A outlet will pass through 20A, but 20A outlets have a horizontal prong for 20A cords, which obviously shouldn't be a consideration in play on a circuit designed for 15A.

 

[JTK]

Dave, just to add to the above, try to use the screw terminals as opposed to the push-locks when wiring them. Especially for heavy use outlets. The screw terminals tend to hold their bite longer/better on the wiring.

 

[exranger06]

You use 15 amp outlets on 15 amp circuits, and 20 amp outlets on 20 amp circuits. Simple. You can also use 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit, but NEVER use a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit.

To be up to current code, you must also use tamper resistant outlets in all locations, unless the outlet is over 5 feet from the ground. You also need to use GFCI near all water sources, on kitchen counters, in bathrooms, garages, unfinished basements, and outdoors. You need to have AFCI protection in all living areas, which is basically everywhere except outside, and the garage.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The regular units sold at HD and Lowes are pretty standard and seem fine by me.

Is your wiring fairly up to date? Is there a properly sized copper ground?

IMO its prudent to use a GFCI at the first position in any circuit, especially if in a kitchen or if there are undersize/BX/no grounds. Some applications shouldn't use GFCI, like a freezer or refrigerator, in case it trips inadvertently.

I dont see a reason to use 20A outlets. First, are your breakers 15A or 20A? Is the wire used rated for ampacity of 15 or 20A of regular service (typically 14 vs 12ga)? A 15A outlet will pass through 20A, but 20A outlets have a horizontal prong for 20A cords, which obviously shouldn't be a consideration in play on a circuit designed for 15A.



Yep, most all the wiring is up to date.

Had to run downstairs to check, but most of mine are 15amp,though I do have some 20amp thrown in.

So it looks to be a smartet bet to make sure I use 15amp ones. then.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The regular units sold at HD and Lowes are pretty standard and seem fine by me.

Is your wiring fairly up to date? Is there a properly sized copper ground?

IMO its prudent to use a GFCI at the first position in any circuit, especially if in a kitchen or if there are undersize/BX/no grounds. Some applications shouldn't use GFCI, like a freezer or refrigerator, in case it trips inadvertently.

I dont see a reason to use 20A outlets. First, are your breakers 15A or 20A? Is the wire used rated for ampacity of 15 or 20A of regular service (typically 14 vs 12ga)? A 15A outlet will pass through 20A, but 20A outlets have a horizontal prong for 20A cords, which obviously shouldn't be a consideration in play on a circuit designed for 15A.



Yep, most all the wiring is up to date.

Had to run downstairs to check, but most of mine are 15amp,though I do have some 20amp thrown in.

So it looks to be a smartet bet to make sure I use 15amp ones. then.

Are the 20A circuits "thrown in" uprated breakers on smaller wire (i.e. 14ga wire on a 20A breaker), or are they bona fide 12+Ga wire? If its a 20A breaker fit to a 14ga wire, Id fix the breaker rating, and then if there are load issues, add circuits). Even if all up to spec, Id still run 15A outlets on a 20A (wire and breaker) circuit unless its a location where I knew I needed to run something heavy. You dont HAVE to put 20A recepticles on a 20A circuit, as I mentioned before, 15A recepticles will pass 20A through.

The comments above about GFCI and AFCI are valid and best practice. I doubt there's a code issue since you have grandfathered work, but you likely wont easily find anti-tamper GFCI anyway (I know I bought the last of the closeouts at my HD), and AFCI may be better served by an AFCI breaker than a combo outlet.

 

[eljefino]

Don't put a GFCI behind your fridge.

You might want to seek out pro-grade 15 amp outlets. $3 ea instead of $.30 ea.

 

[tvaughn0712]

No need for the 20 amp receptacle unless you happen to have an appliance that has a 20amp plug (then in must be on a 20 amp circuit with a minimium of 12 gauge wire). I prefer to use a commercial grade receptacle in high use areas, but really haven't had a problem using the cheap blue back residential outlets either. Someone else mentioned it, but I think it's important enough to reiterate. Do not use the backstab connection as these are well known for failing. Some outlets have an option to backwire where the screw tightens a clamp onto the wire and these are fine (I actually prefer as it is quicker), but as long as you're using the screw to attach it you will be fine. Some outlets have USB charging ports built in and may be convenient depending on uyour use.

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
You use 15 amp outlets on 15 amp circuits, and 20 amp outlets on 20 amp circuits. Simple. You can also use 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit, but NEVER use a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit.
Originally Posted By: tvaughn0712
No need for the 20 amp receptacle unless you happen to have an appliance that has a 20amp plug (then in must be on a 20 amp circuit with a minimium of 12 gauge wire).

What they said ^^^

 

[Doc8404]

Make sure you know what switches are 2 and 3 way switches so you don't screw it up.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

As long as you are "repairing" (replacing the outlet with the exact same rating equivalent) you should be fine but any changes requires you take out a permit. If there is a permit, then a licensed electrician has to sign off on the work, which means he has to be able to visibly inspect everything. Because its his license on the line (and he will pay fines if a problem is later found) you can't easily find someone willing to sign off someone's DIY electrical work ... a relative or buddy maybe, but that's about it.

Many people will make changes without taking out a permit, but that can bite you if you ever try to sell the house, as an inspection will reveal electrical work but no permit on file. The only remedy at that point is to take out permits for everything and have it inspected. More importantly, you may at that point be required to meet code which almost certainly will have changed in the mean time. The worst case scenario is a complete wiring upgrade being required. It can all end up in an expensive lesson and may stall or stop a sale of the property.

So just replace the outlets.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
As long as you are "repairing" (replacing the outlet with the exact same rating equivalent) you should be fine but any changes requires you take out a permit. If there is a permit, then a licensed electrician has to sign off on the work, which means he has to be able to visibly inspect everything. Because its his license on the line (and he will pay fines if a problem is later found) you can't easily find someone willing to sign off someone's DIY electrical work ... a relative or buddy maybe, but that's about it.

Many people will make changes without taking out a permit, but that can bite you if you ever try to sell the house, as an inspection will reveal electrical work but no permit on file. The only remedy at that point is to take out permits for everything and have it inspected. More importantly, you may at that point be required to meet code which almost certainly will have changed in the mean time. The worst case scenario is a complete wiring upgrade being required. It can all end up in an expensive lesson and may stall or stop a sale of the property.

So just replace the outlets.


I don't think I need a permit in my neck of the woods to do the work I've done. I've added breakers and run new circuits without a permit.

My whole house, as well as my whole neighborhood is weird with the backstab receptacles.

I prefer the home Depot stuff.

 

[AandPDan]

Make sure the new outlets are tamper resistant too. NJ is under the 2014 NEC. Replacements are required to be tamper resistant.

Check with your local AHJ to be sure.

NEC 406.4(d)

 

[djb]

The precise term is "receptacle". We know what you mean, but it's better to use the trade term for the device.

The 'backstab' push-in wire clips have a bad reputation from bad ones produced long ago. Modern ones work fine, are reliable and meet code. Use them if you prefer.

There are local variations in what is preferred, what is allowed, and what is rejected. Some jurisdictions don't allow through-wiring, where current flow through the receptacle , so you need a pigtail to a wirenut if the cable feeds a downstream outlet. Some inspectors want the receptacle wrapped with electrical tape over the screw heads, some only if it's in a metal box, others prohibit any tape. It's worth finding out and following local practice so that your work matches what is expected.

If the outlet will be frequently used, it's worth the extra money to install "spec grade" receptacles. They have much thicker metal clamps that retain their spring for longer. Hospital grade receptacles are a further step up, with high retention force so that a plug won't be easily pulled out.

I suggest not installing 20 amp receptacles. They confuse people. Nor should you install them upside-down (frown face) in a residential setting. In a different world it might be very slightly safer, but in this one every consumer wall brick and flush plug expects happy face orientation. Working against that is less safe.

 

[bmwjohn]

well, about 2? years ago someone in Detroit? Goodwill? had a bunch of books on grounding, so I got one (99cents +$3.95 shipping) new and nice. ANYWAY, the book said a common tip off to "defective" wiring was 20 amp outlets installed the wrong way, and/or on a 15 amp circuit. Just FYI.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Don't put a GFCI behind your fridge.

You might want to seek out pro-grade 15 amp outlets. $3 ea instead of $.30 ea.
Well worth the extra money.

 

[Donald]

For the kitchen you want 20 amp GFI outlets with #12 wire and 20 amp breaker.

For the non kitchen you want 15 amp outlets with arc-fault breakers.

The outlets I like best are ones where you slide in a wire and tighten a screw against the wire.

 

[daves87rs]

Wow, lots of good info here...thanks!


Nope, nope of the outlets are running anything heavy at all on them, save for maybe a microwave or and TV on them. Pretty much just basic use with some changing of "stuff"....

Did check-wiring is all up to date-we had to pull a permit a while back because we had to hardwire a smoke/CO2 detector in our basement to be up to code. And since I'm only replacing a few at a time- I want good ones...that will hold up. Just not sure what brand to go with. Just not the cheapies....I do like this idea though....was considering one of these for one of my outlets. Thoughts?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-15-Amp-...W-BOX/206436676

Also like the pro grade idea too...

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Wow, lots of good info here...thanks!


Nope, nope of the outlets are running anything heavy at all on them, save for maybe a microwave or and TV on them. Pretty much just basic use with some changing of "stuff"....

Did check-wiring is all up to date-we had to pull a permit a while back because we had to hardwire a smoke/CO2 detector in our basement to be up to code. And since I'm only replacing a few at a time- I want good ones...that will hold up. Just not sure what brand to go with. Just not the cheapies....I do like this idea though....was considering one of these for one of my outlets. Thoughts?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-15-Amp-...W-BOX/206436676

Also like the pro grade idea too...


That would sure be convenient. 3.1 amps is enough to charge a tablet too.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Wow, lots of good info here...thanks!


Nope, nope of the outlets are running anything heavy at all on them, save for maybe a microwave or and TV on them. Pretty much just basic use with some changing of "stuff"....

Did check-wiring is all up to date-we had to pull a permit a while back because we had to hardwire a smoke/CO2 detector in our basement to be up to code. And since I'm only replacing a few at a time- I want good ones...that will hold up. Just not sure what brand to go with. Just not the cheapies....I do like this idea though....was considering one of these for one of my outlets. Thoughts?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-15-Amp-...W-BOX/206436676

Also like the pro grade idea too...


I installed something similar in the kitchen where we charge our stuff.