Lab feedback - Blackstone was the most expensive (and would have been even without the extra testing), and took the longest to report. All 3 recorded receiving the sample at least one day after USPS recorded it delivered.
Ravenol VSE 0/20 (VW 508), 9,383 Miles, 2019 VW Jetta 1.4t (56,398 Total - 3 Labs (1 with PC/TAN/TBN)
- Thread starter DuckRyder
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Lab feedback - Blackstone was the most expensive (and would have been even without the extra testing), and took the longest to report. All 3 recorded receiving the sample at least one day after USPS recorded it delivered.
Thanks for posting! This time, most values seem closely matched EXCEPT viscosity. Why do the labs struggle with viscosity measurements?
Blackstone looks like the outlier.
Blackstone: 7.5, OA: 8.2, NAPA: 8.4.
Blackstone looks like the outlier.
Blackstone: 7.5, OA: 8.2, NAPA: 8.4.
Awesome, thanks for posting this. I've always wondered how results differ with the same oil analyzed by different companies. This further reinforces why I stopped using Blackstone after 10+ years and switched to OAI. Blackstone's fuel dilution numbers are grossly inaccurate and always read low because they use flashpoint instead of GC. I have a GDI vehicle so accurate fuel dilution numbers are very important to me. Napa would be my last resort because they don't even test for fuel dilution at all!
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$100 Site Donor 2021
So, Blackstone is out to lunch on viscosity. Also shows how out of whack they are on fuel (as we tend to expect now).
Also meant to mention that NAPA has the fluid wrong, it isn't Castrol, this is probably my fault as this was the first time i did an "online submission" with them and I wrote the fluid description on the sample slip with sample, but they have to add the fluid in their system.
Also I thought these labs used different TBN methods so i'm a little surprised they are so close on that.
Also I thought these labs used different TBN methods so i'm a little surprised they are so close on that.
Exactly my thought. I've never seen any sense in doing UOAs of oil with 3 or 4K miles (or even less). I don't even bother reading them. It's far more interesting to see how an oil did when the OCI is extended.
If you're tracking PPM per 1000 miles or checking for overall health (such as presence of contaminants) then it can make a lot of sense to do a UOA at 3-4k miles. After Covid hit, a lot of people drove a lot less and I'd bet some who used to drive enough to change their oil 1 or more times a year didn't want to wait 2 years or more to do a UOA because they now drive a lot less. You have the right not to read the UOAs as they have the right to continue doing them at whatever OCI they want. Cheers!
I agree that some people do UOAs for various reasons besides determining whether the oil is capable of extended OCI's and I have no problem with them doing so. I feel that virtually any oil that meets the required spec. (SN, SP etc...) should be fine for a 5K interval in virtually any vehicle except of course if that vehicle is short tripped daily where it would take over a year to do 5k. This is the reason why the few UOAs that I've done in my life were always done at 6K or more miles on the oil.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't do UOAs at whatever interval pleases them....I'm only saying that I have more interest in how a particular oil/engine combo did at extended intervals (which would be over 7.5K for me) and those are the UOAs that I usually read.
Many BITOGers will post comments like "Another thick vs. thin thread"....or... "That question has been asked a thousand times" etc....and I always
feel like saying "If it bothers you don't read it rather than responding with a post that adds nothing to the conversation." So in that vain...I would never say that people don't "have the right to continue doing them (UOAs) at whatever OCI they want." I just follow my own advice and choose not to read them. Cheers.
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You're welcome of course. I don't know to the rest of your question.
You're welcome. Ive done several test with multiple labs, sometimes fairly close, sometimes fairly not close. I'll continue to do them for tracking/trending purposes, but I'm even more convincesd that one UOA in and of its self it worthless.
You're welcome, Ive run quite a few different ones out a ways.
But why, i find the inconsistency's lately disconcerting.
You're welcome. All US Volkswagens are supposed to be set at fixed intervals of 10,000. Delaler level software or Ross Tech will modify it though. It starts warning you about 600 miles before.
@pbm , @himemsys - I agree for most cars essentially any quality oil should do 5000.00, in fact IMO 5000 is the new 3000. I've done UOAs on low mileage oil and not gotten much out of them except its low mileage oil. There is a lot to ignore around here, folks always want to answer some other question the the topic at hand or asked. Then there are the "Why" crowd... Anyway, Cheers.
Surprised no one had much to say about the TAN and PC.
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$100 Site Donor 2021
That makes two of us!
That's a bit disappointing, a mileage counter isn't overly useful in optimizing the interval.
Well, your PC numbers are much lower than Dr's Haas's 1,000 mile interval on that Redline "0W-5" lol. But I"m not sure we can compare the values that way.
TAN crossing TBN is apparently no longer a trigger for condemnation I recall Doug Hillary talking about, with more modern lubes. As long as there is still sufficient TBN, you are fine, though I will say getting down to 2 is pretty close to the end of the run IMHO.
How does one decipher the particle count data? I'm still trying to figure that one out. I'm assuming it's a measure of oil filter efficiency of some sort?
I think i talked about this on another thread, but other markets use a variable interval based on oil quality, once its out of warranty i may play with this (its a 19 so it has 72,000 miles) but they can go up to 18,000 miles on that interval.
I hate to be that guy, but oil does not expire in time intervals, 6 months is crazy short IMO.
Here's a few links that might help:
What Is the ISO Cleanliness Code?
The ISO code is a fantastic tool for setting target alarms and establishing a goal to achieve and maintain as it relates to system cleanliness. It is also the perfect value to use for key performance indicator (KPI) tracking, charting and posting. However, in the lubrication and analysis world...
www.machinerylubrication.com
ISO 4406: What Do Those Numbers Mean in the ISO Cleanliness Codes?
Understanding ISO 4406 Cleanliness Codes is essential for fluid power professionals. Learn how to interpret and understand ISO codes in this helpful primer.
www.hyprofiltration.com
Understanding ISO Cleanliness Codes | Donaldson Engine & Vehicle
Learn what ISO cleanliness codes are derived from and how important it is to know the required oil and fuel cleanliness requirements for your equipment.
Bonus Question: look at the 3 ISO codes - what was the difference on the cleaner run?
I’m curious; flashpoint will give you an idea if fuel dilution is really a problem. But all joking aside, what exactly is fuel dilution % alone going to do for you? While not knocking GC results, because accurate data is always better, all it will really let you know is if viscosity loss is from mechanical shear or pure dilution via fuel.
The only real option to reduce fuel % on a GDI is to reduce OCI length, and you should be able to come to this conclusion by using KV100 and flashpoint, right?
I’m not going to defend Blackstone’s prices, but they’ve always had my samples reported out same day (I drop my samples in their day box) and Ryan has even run a handful of interesting samples “on the house” when I’ve done some measurements to help the board out. Plus, he’s a small local business keeping people employed and paid. If you don’t like the price you’re free to shop elsewhere, but that doesn’t mean they’re not doing a good job.
Robert, thanks for the samples & data! What’s your take on the Ravenol- continue or find another alternative?
I had a terrible time with the processing time of Blackstone. Sometimes it would take a month to get my results back from the time I mailed it from WA state. Unacceptable! That and the fuel dilution testing were the final straws for me after 10+ years with them. OAI is cheaper than Blackstone and includes TBN which Blackstone charges an extra $10 for, OAI also has UPS return labels. USPS was partly to blame for the long turnaround times but Blackstone takes about a week to process the sample once received vs next day for OAI. This is huge! Plus OAI has an outstanding app to manage, view and submit samples. Blackstone is very much behind the curve overall based on what I've just mentioned. Their website is terrible. Looks like it hasn't been updated since the 1990's, even though they just updated it.I’m curious; flashpoint will give you an idea if fuel dilution is really a problem. But all joking aside, what exactly is fuel dilution % alone going to do for you? While not knocking GC results, because accurate data is always better, all it will really let you know is if viscosity loss is from mechanical shear or pure dilution via fuel.
The only real option to reduce fuel % on a GDI is to reduce OCI length, and you should be able to come to this conclusion by using KV100 and flashpoint, right?
I’m not going to defend Blackstone’s prices, but they’ve always had my samples reported out same day (I drop my samples in their day box) and Ryan has even run a handful of interesting samples “on the house” when I’ve done some measurements to help the board out. Plus, he’s a small local business keeping people employed and paid. If you don’t like the price you’re free to shop elsewhere, but that doesn’t mean they’re not doing a good job.
Robert, thanks for the samples & data! What’s your take on the Ravenol- continue or find another alternative?
Like I say though, to each his own....
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i haven't gotten day after results in years. It has been at least a week lately. I track the samples so i know what day they get them. I think they need to do better for the money.
It is doing what its supposed to, no reason to change.
ALS (NAPA) has a good app too. I like them both though it's a bit of a pain when you have to have them add the fluid. I do like being able to enter samples on the app. Both Blackstone and OAI will give you rudiments sample status.
Although it’s rare, I have seen cases where a dealer looked into problems based on fuel dilution in a uoa. One case was several years ago on the Forester forum in an FA20DIT. The owner had a fuel injector replaced because the dealer determined he had a leaky injector.
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