I've used NGK in the past and followed their instructions about torque and no anti-seize and always with clean threads. If you insist on anti-seize then try a different plug.
Put anti-sieze on NGK plugs
- Thread starter RedOakRanch
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Look at you location, no wonder you don't need never seize. Sometimes I think some Bitog members from other parts of the country cant get their head around the severity of corrosion we face in in salt belt areas.
These threads about NGK plugs and anti-seize come up often. I've read both sides of the argument. Trav had some pretty compelling reasons for using it over the years. I was in the put it on camp and remain there. I've never had a problem with doing so, and several years later everything comes apart nice. Living on Long Island and in the rust belt, I'm not about to gamble and not do it.
I've worked on many marine engines over the years, and I can't imagine not using it.
I've worked on many marine engines over the years, and I can't imagine not using it.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Look at you location, no wonder you don't need never seize. Sometimes I think some Bitog members from other parts of the country cant get their head around the severity of corrosion we face in in salt belt areas.
It is hard to imagine until you see it first hand. I had to put brake lines on a pickup truck from Michigan a couple years ago. Brake lines do not rust out here in GA. It is not uncommon to see original brake lines on a 60 year old vehicle here.
Look at you location, no wonder you don't need never seize. Sometimes I think some Bitog members from other parts of the country cant get their head around the severity of corrosion we face in in salt belt areas.
It is hard to imagine until you see it first hand. I had to put brake lines on a pickup truck from Michigan a couple years ago. Brake lines do not rust out here in GA. It is not uncommon to see original brake lines on a 60 year old vehicle here.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Look at you location, no wonder you don't need never seize. Sometimes I think some Bitog members from other parts of the country cant get their head around the severity of corrosion we face in in salt belt areas.
Sometimes I wonder what would a mechanic from down south say when they saw the oil spray buildup on my vehicles? It would probably be a big head scratcher for them, after they inspected for massive oil leaks and found none
Look at you location, no wonder you don't need never seize. Sometimes I think some Bitog members from other parts of the country cant get their head around the severity of corrosion we face in in salt belt areas.
Sometimes I wonder what would a mechanic from down south say when they saw the oil spray buildup on my vehicles? It would probably be a big head scratcher for them, after they inspected for massive oil leaks and found none
SubLGT touches on an important aspect of this question: which anti-seize?
Aluminum powder kills oxygen sensors dead, which has emissions issues, another aspect of what Trav touched on. If you put a huge glob on there, some will extrude to the front, some to the back as you screw in the plug. The glob on the cylinder side can, in theory, be an issue. Properly done (sparingly), even aluminum... no issue.
Also one should always use a different metal than the head. I use copper anti-seize on spark plugs in aluminum heads. I previously used Aluminum A-S in iron heads, but once Lambda Sensors became the norm have moved on to copper. Sparingly.
Aluminum powder kills oxygen sensors dead, which has emissions issues, another aspect of what Trav touched on. If you put a huge glob on there, some will extrude to the front, some to the back as you screw in the plug. The glob on the cylinder side can, in theory, be an issue. Properly done (sparingly), even aluminum... no issue.
Also one should always use a different metal than the head. I use copper anti-seize on spark plugs in aluminum heads. I previously used Aluminum A-S in iron heads, but once Lambda Sensors became the norm have moved on to copper. Sparingly.
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Originally Posted By: Ram02
NGK doesn't recommend anti seize on there plugs ??
Nope, they specifically advise against it.
If you apply it properly ... which you should read as "sparingly" ... antiseize is fine on almost any fastener, assuming install torque is adjusted accordingly.
With plugs I don't see torque being a problem, since hand-tight is hand-tight, and then going the proper fraction of a turn from there means the plug is installed and ready to run.
You still feel when they bottom out, then 1/8 more and done
Originally Posted By: Ram02
NGK doesn't recommend anti seize on there plugs ??
Nope, they specifically advise against it.
If you apply it properly ... which you should read as "sparingly" ... antiseize is fine on almost any fastener, assuming install torque is adjusted accordingly.
With plugs I don't see torque being a problem, since hand-tight is hand-tight, and then going the proper fraction of a turn from there means the plug is installed and ready to run.
You still feel when they bottom out, then 1/8 more and done
Originally Posted By: HangFire
SubLGT touches on an important aspect of this question: which anti-seize?
Aluminum powder kills oxygen sensors dead, which has emissions issues, another aspect of what Trav touched on. If you put a huge glob on there, some will extrude to the front, some to the back as you screw in the plug. The glob on the cylinder side can, in theory, be an issue. Properly done (sparingly), even aluminum... no issue.
Also one should always use a different metal than the head. I use copper anti-seize on spark plugs in aluminum heads. I previously used Aluminum A-S in iron heads, but once Lambda Sensors became the norm have moved on to copper. Sparingly.
This one is a good blend and covers a broad spectrum I use it for almost everything and copper never seize for O2 sensors.
https://www.permatex.com/products/lubric...ze-lubricant-2/
SubLGT touches on an important aspect of this question: which anti-seize?
Aluminum powder kills oxygen sensors dead, which has emissions issues, another aspect of what Trav touched on. If you put a huge glob on there, some will extrude to the front, some to the back as you screw in the plug. The glob on the cylinder side can, in theory, be an issue. Properly done (sparingly), even aluminum... no issue.
Also one should always use a different metal than the head. I use copper anti-seize on spark plugs in aluminum heads. I previously used Aluminum A-S in iron heads, but once Lambda Sensors became the norm have moved on to copper. Sparingly.
This one is a good blend and covers a broad spectrum I use it for almost everything and copper never seize for O2 sensors.
https://www.permatex.com/products/lubric...ze-lubricant-2/
Originally Posted By: RedOakRanch
Changed the plugs on a 94 Crown Vic, out of habit I put a light coat of anti-sieze on. As soon as I finished I realized what I've done. So at this point should I replace them with steel plugs, retorque them once in a while or clean them and put them back? Real experience and speculation is welcome.
I have been using anti-seize on Iridium plug changes for more than 13 years now, zero issues ever.
Changed the plugs on a 94 Crown Vic, out of habit I put a light coat of anti-sieze on. As soon as I finished I realized what I've done. So at this point should I replace them with steel plugs, retorque them once in a while or clean them and put them back? Real experience and speculation is welcome.
I have been using anti-seize on Iridium plug changes for more than 13 years now, zero issues ever.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: HangFire
SubLGT touches on an important aspect of this question: which anti-seize?
Aluminum powder kills oxygen sensors dead, which has emissions issues, another aspect of what Trav touched on. If you put a huge glob on there, some will extrude to the front, some to the back as you screw in the plug. The glob on the cylinder side can, in theory, be an issue. Properly done (sparingly), even aluminum... no issue.
Also one should always use a different metal than the head. I use copper anti-seize on spark plugs in aluminum heads. I previously used Aluminum A-S in iron heads, but once Lambda Sensors became the norm have moved on to copper. Sparingly.
This one is a good blend and covers a broad spectrum I use it for almost everything and copper never seize for O2 sensors.
https://www.permatex.com/products/lubric...ze-lubricant-2/
Edit: Copper also for plugs in aluminum heads which is most of them today with cats.
Originally Posted By: HangFire
SubLGT touches on an important aspect of this question: which anti-seize?
Aluminum powder kills oxygen sensors dead, which has emissions issues, another aspect of what Trav touched on. If you put a huge glob on there, some will extrude to the front, some to the back as you screw in the plug. The glob on the cylinder side can, in theory, be an issue. Properly done (sparingly), even aluminum... no issue.
Also one should always use a different metal than the head. I use copper anti-seize on spark plugs in aluminum heads. I previously used Aluminum A-S in iron heads, but once Lambda Sensors became the norm have moved on to copper. Sparingly.
This one is a good blend and covers a broad spectrum I use it for almost everything and copper never seize for O2 sensors.
https://www.permatex.com/products/lubric...ze-lubricant-2/
Edit: Copper also for plugs in aluminum heads which is most of them today with cats.
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I use a couple of drops of Tri-Flow and I still have to wiggle them as I'm turning.
If I installed them dry, I wouldn't be able to turn them in my hand.
If I installed them dry, I wouldn't be able to turn them in my hand.
I've had a jar of this for at least 25 years, but mine is labeled Moly. I'm guessing it was probably purchased around 1990-91.
https://www.permatex.com/products/lubric...ze-lubricant-2/
It's gone on every spark plug I've ever installed, NGK or otherwise. No issues, although I definitely put on way too much when I was a young man. Thankfully didn't cause any problems.
I've also used it on my bikes as well in a few places, like the seat post, I have an all-steel fleet and I don't want the seat post seizing.
https://www.permatex.com/products/lubric...ze-lubricant-2/
It's gone on every spark plug I've ever installed, NGK or otherwise. No issues, although I definitely put on way too much when I was a young man. Thankfully didn't cause any problems.
I've also used it on my bikes as well in a few places, like the seat post, I have an all-steel fleet and I don't want the seat post seizing.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Look at you location, no wonder you don't need never seize. Sometimes I think some Bitog members from other parts of the country cant get their head around the severity of corrosion we face in in salt belt areas.
Trav, I am generally a big fan of your posts.
But...I see the opposite problem more on BITOG. People come on here asking about cars and they're in some place where salt isn't used, or there's no need for it like in the South. Inevitably someone from the Rust Belt chimes in, "oh those things rust fast...". Nobody who doesn't live in the rust belt cares.
I have never lived anywhere it snowed on a regular basis or even a semi-regular basis, nor do I care to. Mainly in Oregon and Texas. And I don't care if cars rust in Cleveland or Buffalo, because I will never live there EVER. And I don't care to appreciate what problems people have with rust, nor do I care to get my head around it.
If the OP is from the rust belt, then by all means let them know about the rust. Otherwise, it's of zero utility to many of us.
Look at you location, no wonder you don't need never seize. Sometimes I think some Bitog members from other parts of the country cant get their head around the severity of corrosion we face in in salt belt areas.
Trav, I am generally a big fan of your posts.
But...I see the opposite problem more on BITOG. People come on here asking about cars and they're in some place where salt isn't used, or there's no need for it like in the South. Inevitably someone from the Rust Belt chimes in, "oh those things rust fast...". Nobody who doesn't live in the rust belt cares.
I have never lived anywhere it snowed on a regular basis or even a semi-regular basis, nor do I care to. Mainly in Oregon and Texas. And I don't care if cars rust in Cleveland or Buffalo, because I will never live there EVER. And I don't care to appreciate what problems people have with rust, nor do I care to get my head around it.
If the OP is from the rust belt, then by all means let them know about the rust. Otherwise, it's of zero utility to many of us.
Originally Posted By: HoosierJeeper
Tomorrow I'm pulling some NGKs out of my Liberty that I had installed with antiseize a few years back....we shall see. I'll post up my results.
They came out. Some felt a little bit tighter than others, but put the new ones in with Antiseize and so far it hasn't blown up on me. LOL
Tomorrow I'm pulling some NGKs out of my Liberty that I had installed with antiseize a few years back....we shall see. I'll post up my results.
They came out. Some felt a little bit tighter than others, but put the new ones in with Antiseize and so far it hasn't blown up on me. LOL
Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: Trav
Look at you location, no wonder you don't need never seize. Sometimes I think some Bitog members from other parts of the country cant get their head around the severity of corrosion we face in in salt belt areas.
Trav, I am generally a big fan of your posts.
But...I see the opposite problem more on BITOG. People come on here asking about cars and they're in some place where salt isn't used, or there's no need for it like in the South. Inevitably someone from the Rust Belt chimes in, "oh those things rust fast...". Nobody who doesn't live in the rust belt cares.
I have never lived anywhere it snowed on a regular basis or even a semi-regular basis, nor do I care to. Mainly in Oregon and Texas. And I don't care if cars rust in Cleveland or Buffalo, because I will never live there EVER. And I don't care to appreciate what problems people have with rust, nor do I care to get my head around it.
If the OP is from the rust belt, then by all means let them know about the rust. Otherwise, it's of zero utility to many of us.
With more and more vehicles being sold to dealers at huge auctions and large companies buying cars all over the country and shipping them around to be sold in more favorable locations IMO its not a bad thing to mention if the vehicle is a known rust bucket but I see your point.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Look at you location, no wonder you don't need never seize. Sometimes I think some Bitog members from other parts of the country cant get their head around the severity of corrosion we face in in salt belt areas.
Trav, I am generally a big fan of your posts.
But...I see the opposite problem more on BITOG. People come on here asking about cars and they're in some place where salt isn't used, or there's no need for it like in the South. Inevitably someone from the Rust Belt chimes in, "oh those things rust fast...". Nobody who doesn't live in the rust belt cares.
I have never lived anywhere it snowed on a regular basis or even a semi-regular basis, nor do I care to. Mainly in Oregon and Texas. And I don't care if cars rust in Cleveland or Buffalo, because I will never live there EVER. And I don't care to appreciate what problems people have with rust, nor do I care to get my head around it.
If the OP is from the rust belt, then by all means let them know about the rust. Otherwise, it's of zero utility to many of us.
With more and more vehicles being sold to dealers at huge auctions and large companies buying cars all over the country and shipping them around to be sold in more favorable locations IMO its not a bad thing to mention if the vehicle is a known rust bucket but I see your point.
I can not find any reference to using or not using anti-seize when installing NGK spark plugs, on either the package or web site.
https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/tech-talk/spark-plug-installation
https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/tech-talk/spark-plug-installation
Originally Posted By: knerml
I can not find any reference to using or not using anti-seize when installing NGK spark plugs, on either the package or web site.
https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/tech-talk/spark-plug-installation
This is also on their webstie:
https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/spark-plug-101/5-things-you-should-know-about-spark-plugs
This Tech Bulletin was floating around a while back but I don't see it on their website any longer:
http://www.jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepairPhotos/NGK_TB-0630111antisieze.pdf
Years ago I used to use anti-seize on plugs but I stopped, and on all my high mileage cars (all with aluminum heads operated in a very high salt environment) I've never had any issues removing the old ones, even after over 100,000 miles (all NGK). My engines have spark plug boots that snap over the spark plug holes so I don't experience any water or corrosion products getting down into the wells to cause damage. Maybe some engine designs aren't as good.
Also, I've stopped using the FSM torque values and use the torque angle given on the spark plug box. It's easier to do that on an often hard to see position.
I can not find any reference to using or not using anti-seize when installing NGK spark plugs, on either the package or web site.
https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/tech-talk/spark-plug-installation
This is also on their webstie:
https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/spark-plug-101/5-things-you-should-know-about-spark-plugs
This Tech Bulletin was floating around a while back but I don't see it on their website any longer:
http://www.jagrepair.com/images/AutoRepairPhotos/NGK_TB-0630111antisieze.pdf
Years ago I used to use anti-seize on plugs but I stopped, and on all my high mileage cars (all with aluminum heads operated in a very high salt environment) I've never had any issues removing the old ones, even after over 100,000 miles (all NGK). My engines have spark plug boots that snap over the spark plug holes so I don't experience any water or corrosion products getting down into the wells to cause damage. Maybe some engine designs aren't as good.
Also, I've stopped using the FSM torque values and use the torque angle given on the spark plug box. It's easier to do that on an often hard to see position.
All it takes is once to make a believer. I wish you could have done the last Subaru for me and it had plated plugs I still haven't got over that one. I did get them out without pulling the thread but it took a lot of heating and cooling, kroil, impact on low just rattling and heating again.
The local dealer tried and stopped before doing damage (good), insisted the heads would probably have to come off (true). The whole job was a hail Mary pass and all for 2c worth of never seize.
The local dealer tried and stopped before doing damage (good), insisted the heads would probably have to come off (true). The whole job was a hail Mary pass and all for 2c worth of never seize.
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