Pros and Cons of using a By-pass filter

[73Duster]

Is it worth it to use a by-pass filter system on my 99 dakota 5.2l, 5sp, 4x4. Presently has 52k miles. This vehicle sees about 10k/yr, when driven daily about 40 mile roundtrip with about 1-2 miles of stop-n-go each way. evenings and wknds rarely any highway use. vehicle might sit for 5 days at a time during better weather when I commute by motorcycle. My present idea is to use rotella T 5w40 for 10k OCI with new filter at 5k. Or with using a bypass system could I go even longer OCI? I would use the amsoil system, could use their oil but not a requirement. Looking to get maximum engine life, as I am planning to keep this truck for life.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

For that mileage, I'd say that a bypass system is overkill. Change AMSOIL once a year-- well, OK, if you want to use another synthetic.

If you had a diesel, or were running a fleet, or had something operating 20-40 hours a week or more a bypass system would be appropriate and cost efficient.

(And I sell the systems)

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
I agree with ****, here is my earlier on here!

Hi,
IMHO you will get no real benefits from a bypass filter unless;

a) you plan to extend the OCI significantly
b) you plan to keep the original vehicle for a very very long time indeed and can then retro-fit it to the next vehicle
c) your driving style/vehicle use is "extreme"

Many people invest in these items without doing a real cost/benefit analysis only to find that the end result was not worth the effort

I use expensive centrifuge bypass filters ( and always will ) on my heavily utilised commercial high power 500hp diesel engines. This extends OCIs by a factor of five or so and reduces valve train component wear ( less adjustments )significantly. These engines do between 200kkms an 240kkms each per annum ( about 4000-6000kms per week )and use a commercial synthetic oil

I have never fitted a bypass oil filter to a private vehicle. I cover about 80kkms per annum in one of my cars ( a Subaru Outback 2.5 AWD at present )but I could never really justify it!
I simply almost double the recommended OCI and use Delvac 1 5w-40 instead

ENDS

Regards
Doug

 

[Mykro]

You just have to ask yourself one question..

Do I want clean oil for the sake of having clean oil 100% of the time??

I have have three Frantz filters on my PSD.. I don't give a @*(#! what it costs me! I want clean Engine oil, Transmission Fluid, and fuel in my truck..

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

>>>I have have three Frantz filters on my PSD..

That means you meet the first criteria for which I would recommend a bypass filter.

 

[slalom44]

Actually, I'm surprised that you don't see bypass filters being pushed by the environmentalists. Tree-huggers usually will push anything that reduces the use of fossil fuels and reduces pollution (worn-out engines generate far more than their share of pollutants).

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

Actually, I'm surprised that you don't see bypass filters being pushed by the environmentalists. Tree-huggers usually will push anything that reduces the use of fossil fuels and reduces pollution (worn-out engines generate far more than their share of pollutants).

---

Well, I'm wondering if anyone has done a cost/benefit/environmental impact analysis on the energy saved by NOT building a new vehicle over the extended use of a less fuel efficient, higher polluting vehicle. The industry norm in the mid 70's was a three year evolution before 70% of the public adopted a new technology (unleaded fuel for example)..but the last figures that I heard were that new car ownership averaged 10 years (which was unlikely given the quality of 70's vehicles).

Depending on the mass emissions output of the nations fleet ..they may want all older vehicles retired. Right now our auto industry appears more like a domestic jobs program that the greenies tag along with as much as they can. They may just be settling for a cleaner enviroment with a quiet concession on consumption. In my state (PA) the emissions standards have gone from vehicle class to "engine specific". My 3200 lb Wrangler could have had a 350 Vette engine if I could manage to fit all the hardware (about $5000) ..but now, due to the MASS aggrigate emissions in the monitored area (due to more cars and SUVs) required a reduction in the emissions standards. Now I have to have the required ouput of a 2.5 four banger based on my VIN #.

quote:

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Is it worth it to use a by-pass filter system on my 99 dakota

---

As Doug says, probably not ..but you'll **** away as much money and accomplish nothing on something else. It's a fun little distraction that does yield positive results ..even if you aren't the main beneficiary (the next owner).

I say DO IT!!!

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,

to add a real dimension read ****'s report in the Diesel UOAs under Amsoil HDD 5w-30

Regards

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug Hillary:
Hi,

I have never fitted a bypass oil filter to a private vehicle. I cover about 80kkms per annum in one of my cars ( a Subaru Outback 2.5 AWD at present )but I could never really justify it!
I simply almost double the recommended OCI and use Delvac 1 5w-40 instead

ENDS

Regards
Doug

---

Doug that's about where I am. Except double severe duty intervals with M1 10W-30 for not so severe driving.

There is one other completely valid reason for installing abypass filter on a private vehicle though.

The other reason is "Just because." In the big picture, it's relatively cheap entertainment for someone who like to phart around with their car.

If one would easily fit on my car without a lot of hose or looking like a kludge I would probably have one, just because.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi XS650,

I do agree and have been tempted to install a small Mann-Hummel centrifuge ( like on diesel Land Rovers )once or twice

It's "just because" I never seem to keep my cars long enough

Regards

 

[XS650]

Doug, the Mann-Hummel looks interesting.

I had a 1969 Honda CB350 that spun about 7,000 rom at freeway speeds. It had an attachement on the end of the crankshaft that oil ran through. That was the factory oil filter and you just cleaned it out with a rag each oil change. Some of the stuff in it just looked like a thin layer of grey oil, real small particles.

 

[RalphPWood]

I find it interesting that someone that would spend a lot of money on oil would call filters that clean oil overkill. The most important thing to keeping a engine in new condition is to never allow the oil to get dirty. When I started using submicronic bypass filters the Frantz cost 29.95. It seemed like a lot of money. If I had paid 10,000 for it it would have paid for itself. My oldest filter still in use is a Motor Guard that also cost 29.95 in the 60's.
I have Shell Rotella T 5-40 in my car. Not because I think it is better than the others but because we have a lot of Gulf Coast filters on the big Shell Oil Off Shore Rigs. We have some heavy duty truck engines that have done very well running on Shell Rotella T 15-40. I figure the synthetic oil should be even better. Shell Oil did a cost analysis on the Gulf Coast filters. It didn't take them long to pay for themselves.
I am partial to the small Motor Guard filters. Gulf Coast is the king of big systems.
Synthetic oil is not economical with the conventional system of running it until it gets dirty and starts wearing the engine then draining it. You have to take care of the filter. Synthetic oil isnt magic. It gets dirty. You can go a year between filter changes but your equipment wont last as long as it would if you change the filter about every 3,000. Normally you dont need to drain the oil.

Ralph

[ March 20, 2004, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: RalphPWood ]

 

[XS650]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RalphPWood:
I find it interesting that someone that would spend a lot of money on oil would call filters that clean oil overkill.
.....
Ralph

---

It's just the natural human condition to call that which we are interested in or believe in important. That which doesn't fit one or both of those catagories isn't important to most people.

I think bypass filters are interesting, but don't plan on keeping any of my cars past 200,000 miles, so they don't make the cut with me.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi Ralph,

quote:

---

Originally posted by RalphPWood:
I find it interesting that someone that would spend a lot of money on oil would call filters that clean oil overkill.
.....
Ralph

---

I have to agree with XS650

Ralph you and I have "tangled" in ideology land before on this topic and I am aware of course that you market these products

I would never place a new heavy truck in service in my fleet without a centrifuge type by-pass filter attached and running a premium synthetic oil because the engine must do about 650k miles without major mechanical work in its life for me. I am a realist and for me the costs must not exceed the benefit - simple as that

Heyjay ( Jerry ) feels the same way I believe

As an example we do not use extended life fuel filters that Detroit Diesel recommend changing at 100k. We use the normal filters and change them at 50k - about twice the recommended interval - the simple economics have determined this! We have never lost an injector!!!

I was brought up with heavy dozers, scrapers and loaders - Caterpillar, Allis, IH, - operating in a very hard/harsh operating environment. High up in The Southern Alps in New Zealand! Every piece of equipment used a cartridge type Luberfiner bypass filter. It served as a cooler and filter holding about 20ltrs of oil. This prolonged oil life and saved the problem of oil disposal in a very sensitive environment

In trucking there and here in Australia the standard into the 1980s was the Luberfiner. However, the technolgy has moved on and a centrifuge simply does the job better. I have tens of thousands of hours ( millions of miles ) of experience as a user to support this

This does not mean that in some cases and not only for "fun", the products you sell are not worthwhile

If I had an expensive classic car or a heavy marine motor ( petrol or diesel ) I would consider a product from your inventory. They do have an application especially on engines that have a marginal oil capacity and/or where placement of the by-pass filter in the cooling air flow enables it to act as an oil cooler too

But for 73Duster who started this thread, my comments echo an honest appraisal of his situation from my experience and using my knowledge

I have never run a car longer than 100k miles or about two years, ( well except my BMW and Porsche ) I simply turn them over to maintain the overall reliability I need when travelling in the remote parts of this harsh land where I live

Regards
Doug

[ March 21, 2004, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: Doug Hillary ]

 

[RalphPWood]

We sell a lot of oil filters to several major oil companies especially Shell Oil for off shore drilling rigs. I have testimonials from Shell Off Shore and a few others including Boral Quarries in Australia that use the filters on the quarry equipment. At one time I sold the Frantz Oil Cleaner. I have a testimonial from a land leveling company in Modesto, California that has not changed oil in the Caterpillar equipment since 1955 using the Frantz.
I sold a bunch of filters to NASA for their equipment. They like the big Gulf Coast filters. They are about as interested in the fuel filters as the motor oil filters. I have a testimonial from a Coast Guard station in Chatanooga that uses the filters on the Coast Guard vessels. North Carolina has the Gulf Coast filters on all of their ferry boats. When they purchase a new truck it will have the Gulf Coast filters installed at the factory. If they buy the filters from Geneeral Motors the GM part number 15071671 will be factory installed. They were installed on 200 CAT engines in medium duty trucks for North Carolina Department of Transportation.
When I purchase a car or pickup it usually already has over 100,000 on it. I spend an hour installing a submicronic bypass filter on it. Then I will probably drive it another 100,000 miles and sell it for what I gave for it. I will remove the filter and install it on the next car. I retired my Frantz after 30 years. My oldest Motor Guard submicronic bypass filter is over 30 years old now. You can make a bad choice and it can cost you thousands with the small filters. It can get into the millions with the big filters. I have only owned one centrifigal filter. It didnt clean the oil to my requirements. I have seen large centrifigal systems with Gulf Coast filters down line to finish cleaning the fuel on large locomotive engines. I have been using submicronic bypass filters for 40 years. There are guys in California that I know that are 90 years old and have been at it a lot longer. You still see a lot of Lubrafiners on construction equipment.
Many people foolishly think that proper filtration is for dusty conditions only. **** Cepek Tires sold Motor Guard M-100s for off road use. They are just as important for street use. Some truckers expect over 1,000,000 miles between major engine work.I have a thank you email from a guy with over one million on a Peterbilt.
I dont see the logic in 10 micron fuel filters when you are dealing with 2 micron clearances. I dont just try to get 200,000 on the engine. I want the thing to perform for 200,000 miles. I have a customer that put over 500,000 miles on his Toyota Corolla using a Frantz oil cleaner. These are some of the guys I deal with. It shouldnt make any difference whether a guy is a dealer or not. A dealer should know more about his product than any one else. He probably knows about the competition. It is the responsibility of the customer to sort out the BS. When I started there were only two filters to choose from that were practical; Frantz and Motor Guard. There are probably a dozen decent ones now. Many are junk.
A heavy equipment engineer at Cape Canaveral was hammering me on a boating forum. Finally he said you are good at defending yourself, send me some information and some phone numbers of customers I can talk to. Those guys are easy because you can give them info that you cant give to non government fleets. There have been a lot of tests on filters. The Department of Defense is a hard reference to beat. Shell Oil isn't too shabby either. I havent sold Frantz oil cleaners in over ten years. I dont mind talking about them. They have saved me a lot of money.
To me there are two kinds of filters: the ones that clean oil and the ones that don't. Once I determine that I get into the details of cost of the element, quality of the housing, ease of servicing and that sort of thing the initial cost is no big deal for something that can last a lifetime.

Ralph

[ March 22, 2004, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: RalphPWood ]

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi Ralph,

I stress again that for me it has to be a cost effective decision. And for the private owner they should very carefully weigh up the likely advantages against the actual costs!

I have had my own Consultancy business here for 16 years specialising in Road Transport. This enables me to obtain a unique "snapshot" of the internal workings of many enterprises. Some Govt. some private. Demonstrating the cold economic wisdom of their purchasing strategies is certainly not high on the Business Agenda for most - they would not want it to be!!

Of course the Mann-Hummel ( once was Federal-Mogul) centrifuge can be removed on sale of equipment and then fitted to another vehicle etc. Typically this would take about two hours on a typical heavy truck.
These devices have been around for over 50 years.
Their installation on a variety of "serious" engines (MTU, MAN B&M, Wartsila etc)is legendary. In particular with marine engines where the disposal issue is very real. These units ( like the ones I use ) only require cleaning and the contents can be incinerated

Ralph I have seen so many testimonials I tend to take only those that can substantiate their results long term and still use and repeat purchase the device - as the most credible. I would tend not to put the Boral Quarries results within Australia in that league

And of course we must ask the question;
Why fit a by-pass filter?

Surely it must be to extend the operating life of the oil.
Extending the life of the engine will require a very subjective argument.
An argument that would be very hard to prove!
Only in certain and very specific applications would it be substantiated

Regards