After failing so many small market off-brand convenience store type oils would it not benefit the Institute to simply advise purchase of name brand and widely available store brand oils, thereby saving resources that could be used toward the testing of different grades, like the increasingly widespread 0w-20 and 5w-20 oil?
PQIA Testing...
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But what constitutes "name brand"?
I agree. I don't know anyone that buys those gas station off-brand oils. It seems like a waste of time to even test them. I guess the real benefit from testing these no-name brands is that PQIA can have them pulled off shelves so that unsuspecting people will not be able to purchase them.
Saw a guy pouring a bottle of Dollar General 10w40 into his 80's GM beater the other day. He was in front of a Dollar General of course. For folks like him there is no help, other than perhaps the PQIA getting "oils" like that off the shelf entirely.
Ironically DG had peak on sale at that time, he could have had a bona fide API SN rated name brand oil for a mere 20 cents more.
Ironically DG had peak on sale at that time, he could have had a bona fide API SN rated name brand oil for a mere 20 cents more.
I suppose that would be an idea, but would also be condemning all non major or off brand products. Also as said, what would qualify as a major?
And, the testing is also done for unsuspecting and unsophisticated consumers (general public) who may not/don't read this site. They may stop at these convenience store/gas stations and think because it's on the shelf it is therefore safe, ie, meets specs.
That said, sticking with the majors or known store brands is a way to avoid or greatly minimize any chance of purchasing a non spec substandard oil or atf.
And, the testing is also done for unsuspecting and unsophisticated consumers (general public) who may not/don't read this site. They may stop at these convenience store/gas stations and think because it's on the shelf it is therefore safe, ie, meets specs.
That said, sticking with the majors or known store brands is a way to avoid or greatly minimize any chance of purchasing a non spec substandard oil or atf.
Originally Posted By: dparm
But what constitutes "name brand"?
I would characterize any house brand oil from large regional or national chains as, "name brand", ie. Walmart, Napa, Autozone, Advance, Pep Boys etc. to complement the large Institutional brands most people recognize, ie. Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline etc.
But what constitutes "name brand"?
I would characterize any house brand oil from large regional or national chains as, "name brand", ie. Walmart, Napa, Autozone, Advance, Pep Boys etc. to complement the large Institutional brands most people recognize, ie. Mobil, Pennzoil, Valvoline etc.
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Originally Posted By: sayjac
I suppose that would be an idea, but would also be condemning all non major or off brand products. Also as said, what would qualify as a major?
And, the testing is also done for unsuspecting and unsophisticated consumers (general public) who may not/don't read this site. They may stop at these convenience store/gas stations and think because it's on the shelf it is therefore safe, ie, meets specs.
That said, sticking with the majors or known store brands is a way to avoid or greatly minimize any chance of purchasing a non spec substandard oil or atf.
I was at WM yesterday. The large majority of what they sell is suitable, but I also noticed they had Accel HD30, which has no API donut and claims to be API SA rated. Basically it's good for oiling hinges or lubing air compressors. That's right next to the Accel 5w30 and 10w30 oils that have the full donut and starburst.
I suppose that would be an idea, but would also be condemning all non major or off brand products. Also as said, what would qualify as a major?
And, the testing is also done for unsuspecting and unsophisticated consumers (general public) who may not/don't read this site. They may stop at these convenience store/gas stations and think because it's on the shelf it is therefore safe, ie, meets specs.
That said, sticking with the majors or known store brands is a way to avoid or greatly minimize any chance of purchasing a non spec substandard oil or atf.
I was at WM yesterday. The large majority of what they sell is suitable, but I also noticed they had Accel HD30, which has no API donut and claims to be API SA rated. Basically it's good for oiling hinges or lubing air compressors. That's right next to the Accel 5w30 and 10w30 oils that have the full donut and starburst.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
...would it not benefit the Institute to simply advise purchase of name brand and widely available store brand oils,...
BTW, I don't propose to speak for PQIA, but I don't think PQIA is in the business of advising which oils one should choose. I don't think that is part of their mission:
Quote:
PQIA’s mission is to serve the consumer of lubricants by testing and reporting on the quality and integrity of lubricants in the marketplace. It is expected that this improved visibility of quality will lead to wider conformance by lubricant manufacturers to specification and performance claims.
Secondly, this idea would severely bias against the private blenders and formulators who make good oils.
...would it not benefit the Institute to simply advise purchase of name brand and widely available store brand oils,...
BTW, I don't propose to speak for PQIA, but I don't think PQIA is in the business of advising which oils one should choose. I don't think that is part of their mission:
Quote:
PQIA’s mission is to serve the consumer of lubricants by testing and reporting on the quality and integrity of lubricants in the marketplace. It is expected that this improved visibility of quality will lead to wider conformance by lubricant manufacturers to specification and performance claims.
Secondly, this idea would severely bias against the private blenders and formulators who make good oils.
When I was a counter clown in the late 90's people were stil asking for nd oils to use in there newer car. Usually it was some older guy and nothing I said would change his mind.some people you just can't reach
People who pull up to a quick-mart at 7:00 PM on a Sunday with the oil light on buy whatever.
It would be good if retailers would only stock oil brands that were reputable.
The average car driver knows little about oil or PQIA tests.
It would be good if retailers would only stock oil brands that were reputable.
The average car driver knows little about oil or PQIA tests.
It's generally not an issue in Canada as convenience stores, Dollar stores, etc don't sell cheap non API motor oil that I've ever seen.
MolaKule is spot on - PQIA does not recommend brands of oils. They randomly buy oils off of retail shelves, have them analyzed, and comment on whether the analysis is consistent with the labeled claims. In addition to advising consumers of the bad brands, they also do a lot of work behind the scenes to get the bad quality oils removed from shelves in order to protect innocent consumers.
There are many many quality private brand oils out there, including little known brands that are every bit as good as the majors, some even better, and often offered at lower prices. They bring value to consumers and sometimes are the first to introduce new technologies.
Consumers need to look for the API certification marks on labels for confirmation of basic quality, rather than brand. Without the certification that they have been tested and passed the industry standards, you are trusting in the integrity of the manufacturer. None of the really bad oils PQIA exposed carry the API marks because the API will sue them for illegal use of their trademarks.
Tom NJ
Note: While I am an Advisor to PQIA, the comments I make on this forum are my own opinions and may not reflect the position of PQIA.
There are many many quality private brand oils out there, including little known brands that are every bit as good as the majors, some even better, and often offered at lower prices. They bring value to consumers and sometimes are the first to introduce new technologies.
Consumers need to look for the API certification marks on labels for confirmation of basic quality, rather than brand. Without the certification that they have been tested and passed the industry standards, you are trusting in the integrity of the manufacturer. None of the really bad oils PQIA exposed carry the API marks because the API will sue them for illegal use of their trademarks.
Tom NJ
Note: While I am an Advisor to PQIA, the comments I make on this forum are my own opinions and may not reflect the position of PQIA.
They want to test independently and place the results for others who do some research into oils to read and make decisions. They probably will never advise due to the fact that lawyers would make their life miserable with claims of bias, prejudice, libel, etc and that this cost companies money. Many people never do any research even as easy as reading labels on a food product which they will consume themselves. Most people are not like you folks who care what product, what grade of oil, what donut it carries, and what specification it holds. I doubt many of them ever read and internalize the info in their owners manual. I doubt many look at their oil caps for guidance. They will probably never go to PQIA for any guidance. So with all that talk comes the fact that there will always be someone packaging [censored] oil products that someone will buy and place in their car. PQIA is doing a service getting some removed but I highly doubt they can ever rid the shelves of [censored] oil. But I for one hope they at least make a large dent in that supply chain. Good Luck PQIA
PQIA has corporate sponsors. I don't believe for an instant that they're influenced to fudge their findings as a result, but their incentive is to actually test a wide variety of oils that people might actually use, including ones made by their sponsors. Among their sponsors are makers of decent quality house-brand lubricants like Pinnacle and Warren.
The main benefit that PQIA provides to us motor oil nerds is purely incidental to their mission which Molakule and Tom NJ have pointed out.
They are an independent technical reviewer providing actual measured motor oil spec's and there is nothing we like more than spec's and the more the better.
Tom Glenn, President of PQIA, is aware of us at BITOG and what our interests are and that we have "a thirst for more data to compare lubricant performance" as he told me in a recent email.
That is not his direct mission although the test of 25 plus synthetic API 5w30s was sure not to uncover any serious violations and they didn't. But the end result was a terrific motor oil comparative chart for us.
They are an independent technical reviewer providing actual measured motor oil spec's and there is nothing we like more than spec's and the more the better.
Tom Glenn, President of PQIA, is aware of us at BITOG and what our interests are and that we have "a thirst for more data to compare lubricant performance" as he told me in a recent email.
That is not his direct mission although the test of 25 plus synthetic API 5w30s was sure not to uncover any serious violations and they didn't. But the end result was a terrific motor oil comparative chart for us.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
It's generally not an issue in Canada as convenience stores, Dollar stores, etc don't sell cheap non API motor oil that I've ever seen.
Exactly. From a retailers perspective, the off-brand stuff isn't easy to find. Besides, any convenience store can go to a name brand distributor, buy what they need, mark it up 100%, and still compete with Canadian Tire or Walmart.
It's generally not an issue in Canada as convenience stores, Dollar stores, etc don't sell cheap non API motor oil that I've ever seen.
Exactly. From a retailers perspective, the off-brand stuff isn't easy to find. Besides, any convenience store can go to a name brand distributor, buy what they need, mark it up 100%, and still compete with Canadian Tire or Walmart.
PQIA's approach seems to be to provide the data and to allow people to reach their own conclusions.
PQIA does flag the really bad oils as unsuitable for use in engines.
There are a number of minor brands out there that are very good and PQIA has tested some of them.
There are also some minor brands that are really horrid.
PQIA has done all of us the service of identifying which brands fall into each catagory.
I find it morally repugnant that there are companies offering products totally unsuited to their labeled use to an unsuspecting public.
You're right in that the unsuspecting could protect themselves by sticking to known brand products, which they could often find cheaply or even free after MIR.
There are too many folks, though, who only pull a dipstick when the oil pressure light gives a little flash in corners and who then dive into the nearest convenience store and grab the lowest cost thing on the shelves. PQIA brings the unsuitability of the truly bad products to light and the result is often removal of these products, either voluntarily or as a result of legal actions undertaken by state authorities.
In this way, PQIA provides benefits of far greater value than their very nice VOAs of products that everyone here likes to use and argue about.
PQIA does flag the really bad oils as unsuitable for use in engines.
There are a number of minor brands out there that are very good and PQIA has tested some of them.
There are also some minor brands that are really horrid.
PQIA has done all of us the service of identifying which brands fall into each catagory.
I find it morally repugnant that there are companies offering products totally unsuited to their labeled use to an unsuspecting public.
You're right in that the unsuspecting could protect themselves by sticking to known brand products, which they could often find cheaply or even free after MIR.
There are too many folks, though, who only pull a dipstick when the oil pressure light gives a little flash in corners and who then dive into the nearest convenience store and grab the lowest cost thing on the shelves. PQIA brings the unsuitability of the truly bad products to light and the result is often removal of these products, either voluntarily or as a result of legal actions undertaken by state authorities.
In this way, PQIA provides benefits of far greater value than their very nice VOAs of products that everyone here likes to use and argue about.
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