"I got out of my vehicle without putting it in park and it rolled away". I wouldn't even admit I had done something like that, much less file a lawsuit or demand the manufacturer do something about. Good old common sense has died and most people didn't even notice the obituary lol.
Poor shifter design causing accidents
- Thread starter finmile
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I have this shifter in my Jeep, and I am on the fence about it. It has detents to mimic a mechanical shifter to help you select gears without looking, and it also displays what gear you are in on the shifter and on the gauge cluster. A couple times I haven't pushed/pulled far enough and wound up in R or N when I was shooting for P or D.
The best electronic shifter I ever drove was my old 2012 E350. Up was R, down was D and a push button for P. It was intuitive and didn't take up any space on the console or dash since it was on the steering column.
The best electronic shifter I ever drove was my old 2012 E350. Up was R, down was D and a push button for P. It was intuitive and didn't take up any space on the console or dash since it was on the steering column.
I have an FCA car.
If I open the door with the engine running and the transmission in drive or reverse, it goes to neutral by itself, I have to go to par or neutral then back to drive or reverse to get going. Beeps like crazy.
If the parking brake is pulled up and the transmission is in drive or reverse, it won't try to creep unless I aplly throttle.
the engine can be shut off at any time (key though) but you can't take the key out unless the transmission is in Park. you also get a lot of beeping at you and a message on the screen between the gauges.
If I open the door with the engine running and the transmission in drive or reverse, it goes to neutral by itself, I have to go to par or neutral then back to drive or reverse to get going. Beeps like crazy.
If the parking brake is pulled up and the transmission is in drive or reverse, it won't try to creep unless I aplly throttle.
the engine can be shut off at any time (key though) but you can't take the key out unless the transmission is in Park. you also get a lot of beeping at you and a message on the screen between the gauges.
I've driven vehicles with this shifter. Another stupid idea just like push button start. While I didn't have a problem with it, I could see how someone not really paying attention could mess it up.
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
I have an FCA car.
If I open the door with the engine running and the transmission in drive or reverse, it goes to neutral by itself, I have to go to par or neutral then back to drive or reverse to get going. Beeps like crazy.
If the parking brake is pulled up and the transmission is in drive or reverse, it won't try to creep unless I aplly throttle.
This is awful! The transmission changes operation modes based on a 30-cent switch in the B-pillar that senses the door. In ten years when that switch is corroded the tranny will start dumping to neutral "for no reason". The computer logic of this nanny decision will vary from maker to maker and from year to year. I'll
the toyota thing where a driver lives with a car that shuts off instantly with the button in "Park" but after 3 seconds in "Drive". Why change modes midstream?
I worked at a tire shop and already had enough drama: No two cars reset OLMs the same way. Cars required me to step on the brake to crank the engine. (I never do this-- saves the battery.) I can totally see myself opening the door to creep up onto an alignment rack and having the thing pop into neutral and start rolling backwards down the ramps!
And these electric e-brakes, well, you have to see if they're actually effective for a state inspection. Glad I never had to decipher how to make one apply under power or movement.
Quote:
the engine can be shut off at any time (key though) but you can't take the key out unless the transmission is in Park. you also get a lot of beeping at you and a message on the screen between the gauges.
At least they got this right.
I have an FCA car.
If I open the door with the engine running and the transmission in drive or reverse, it goes to neutral by itself, I have to go to par or neutral then back to drive or reverse to get going. Beeps like crazy.
If the parking brake is pulled up and the transmission is in drive or reverse, it won't try to creep unless I aplly throttle.
This is awful! The transmission changes operation modes based on a 30-cent switch in the B-pillar that senses the door. In ten years when that switch is corroded the tranny will start dumping to neutral "for no reason". The computer logic of this nanny decision will vary from maker to maker and from year to year. I'll
I worked at a tire shop and already had enough drama: No two cars reset OLMs the same way. Cars required me to step on the brake to crank the engine. (I never do this-- saves the battery.) I can totally see myself opening the door to creep up onto an alignment rack and having the thing pop into neutral and start rolling backwards down the ramps!
And these electric e-brakes, well, you have to see if they're actually effective for a state inspection. Glad I never had to decipher how to make one apply under power or movement.
Quote:
the engine can be shut off at any time (key though) but you can't take the key out unless the transmission is in Park. you also get a lot of beeping at you and a message on the screen between the gauges.
At least they got this right.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Have the owners never heard of a parking brake?
Some vehicles have electrical parking brake.
Driving home from canada towing a fishing boat with a 2013 outback 6mt..
I parked at the gas station. pushed the ebrake button.
Didn't leave my foot on the regular brake long enough and it took the ebrake off again.. car started rolling away.
Luckily I was still at the car not inside paying.
4 lane 55mph road was 25ft away...
Not sure why I didnt leave it in 1st gear.. Probably the 4am been driving for 9 hours effect.
First and only time its happened to me. I make sure the light stays solid red on the button for 10seconds before exiting now.. also have to keep your foot on the brake that long... and of course I always leave it in 1st gear (except that time)
Not sure why you would get rid of a regular emergency brake.
The button isn't easier to use.
Have the owners never heard of a parking brake?
Some vehicles have electrical parking brake.
Driving home from canada towing a fishing boat with a 2013 outback 6mt..
I parked at the gas station. pushed the ebrake button.
Didn't leave my foot on the regular brake long enough and it took the ebrake off again.. car started rolling away.
Luckily I was still at the car not inside paying.
4 lane 55mph road was 25ft away...
Not sure why I didnt leave it in 1st gear.. Probably the 4am been driving for 9 hours effect.
First and only time its happened to me. I make sure the light stays solid red on the button for 10seconds before exiting now.. also have to keep your foot on the brake that long... and of course I always leave it in 1st gear (except that time)
Not sure why you would get rid of a regular emergency brake.
The button isn't easier to use.
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Is this another case of people being incompetent drivers? I still can't believe that the whole Toyota floor mat accelerator incident made national headlines.
Except it wasn't really floormats, it was bad software. Didn't come out until the civil suits and the press pretty much ignored the final answer, but the facts are out there.
http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/442...ts-consequences
Full disclosure: I think this is mostly idiots and settlement-seekers because the shifter is pretty intuitive and simple, but I dislike the FCA shifter in question and I hate the rotary-knob version even more, and I hate the "gated" automatic shifters of prior years even more. One of the few decent things Ralph Nader ever did was force a standardization of gear-selector patterns back in the 60s. Chrysler had pushbuttons, Ford had "PRNDL" and GM had "PNDLR" (and others, depending on if you had a Hydramatic, Dynaflow, Powerglide, or TurboHydraMatic under the floor). It was a little out of hand, particularly "PNDLR" versus "PRNDL", and the standardization worked nicely for 50 years... then we get electronic transmissions and the lessons of the past are forgotten, starting with BMW's ridiculous "one knob does everything if you can possibly remember just how to twist and tilt it" to the Prius' "push the lever forward to go forward instead of pulling it back into 'drive' like we're used to," and the FCA shifters already mentioned. Standardization is a GOOD thing when it comes to basic controls. If you can move the shift lever functions arbitrarily, why not put the brake pedal on the right and the accelerator on the left while you're at it? \
Is this another case of people being incompetent drivers? I still can't believe that the whole Toyota floor mat accelerator incident made national headlines.
Except it wasn't really floormats, it was bad software. Didn't come out until the civil suits and the press pretty much ignored the final answer, but the facts are out there.
http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/442...ts-consequences
Full disclosure: I think this is mostly idiots and settlement-seekers because the shifter is pretty intuitive and simple, but I dislike the FCA shifter in question and I hate the rotary-knob version even more, and I hate the "gated" automatic shifters of prior years even more. One of the few decent things Ralph Nader ever did was force a standardization of gear-selector patterns back in the 60s. Chrysler had pushbuttons, Ford had "PRNDL" and GM had "PNDLR" (and others, depending on if you had a Hydramatic, Dynaflow, Powerglide, or TurboHydraMatic under the floor). It was a little out of hand, particularly "PNDLR" versus "PRNDL", and the standardization worked nicely for 50 years... then we get electronic transmissions and the lessons of the past are forgotten, starting with BMW's ridiculous "one knob does everything if you can possibly remember just how to twist and tilt it" to the Prius' "push the lever forward to go forward instead of pulling it back into 'drive' like we're used to," and the FCA shifters already mentioned. Standardization is a GOOD thing when it comes to basic controls. If you can move the shift lever functions arbitrarily, why not put the brake pedal on the right and the accelerator on the left while you're at it? \
A e-brake either engages or it doesn't. The old emergency brakes would only partially engage if you didn't stomp on it hard. People would roast their rear brakes all the time due to partial pressure when pushing down the e-brake.
I like the e-brakes. You push a button-the brake engages. You push (or pull) it again - it disengages.
Not sure how one can mess this up.
I like the e-brakes. You push a button-the brake engages. You push (or pull) it again - it disengages.
Not sure how one can mess this up.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
starting with BMW's ridiculous "one knob does everything if you can possibly remember just how to twist and tilt it"
And Ford has now started to put rotary knob gear selectors in some of their cars, too, although I think the pattern is still PRNDL.
starting with BMW's ridiculous "one knob does everything if you can possibly remember just how to twist and tilt it"
And Ford has now started to put rotary knob gear selectors in some of their cars, too, although I think the pattern is still PRNDL.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Full disclosure: I think this is mostly idiots and settlement-seekers because the shifter is pretty intuitive and simple, but I dislike the FCA shifter in question and I hate the rotary-knob version even more, and I hate the "gated" automatic shifters of prior years even more. One of the few decent things Ralph Nader ever did was force a standardization of gear-selector patterns back in the 60s. Chrysler had pushbuttons, Ford had "PRNDL" and GM had "PNDLR" (and others, depending on if you had a Hydramatic, Dynaflow, Powerglide, or TurboHydraMatic under the floor). It was a little out of hand, particularly "PNDLR" versus "PRNDL", and the standardization worked nicely for 50 years... then we get electronic transmissions and the lessons of the past are forgotten, starting with BMW's ridiculous "one knob does everything if you can possibly remember just how to twist and tilt it" to the Prius' "push the lever forward to go forward instead of pulling it back into 'drive' like we're used to," and the FCA shifters already mentioned. Standardization is a GOOD thing when it comes to basic controls. If you can move the shift lever functions arbitrarily, why not put the brake pedal on the right and the accelerator on the left while you're at it? \
Summed up my thoughts--I couldn't figure out how to phrase what you said. Some standardization goes a long ways--and PRNDL works quite well.
Full disclosure: I think this is mostly idiots and settlement-seekers because the shifter is pretty intuitive and simple, but I dislike the FCA shifter in question and I hate the rotary-knob version even more, and I hate the "gated" automatic shifters of prior years even more. One of the few decent things Ralph Nader ever did was force a standardization of gear-selector patterns back in the 60s. Chrysler had pushbuttons, Ford had "PRNDL" and GM had "PNDLR" (and others, depending on if you had a Hydramatic, Dynaflow, Powerglide, or TurboHydraMatic under the floor). It was a little out of hand, particularly "PNDLR" versus "PRNDL", and the standardization worked nicely for 50 years... then we get electronic transmissions and the lessons of the past are forgotten, starting with BMW's ridiculous "one knob does everything if you can possibly remember just how to twist and tilt it" to the Prius' "push the lever forward to go forward instead of pulling it back into 'drive' like we're used to," and the FCA shifters already mentioned. Standardization is a GOOD thing when it comes to basic controls. If you can move the shift lever functions arbitrarily, why not put the brake pedal on the right and the accelerator on the left while you're at it? \
Summed up my thoughts--I couldn't figure out how to phrase what you said. Some standardization goes a long ways--and PRNDL works quite well.
Three pedals, one gearstick and one handbrake lever.
K.I.S.S!!
K.I.S.S!!
Originally Posted By: Dave Sherman
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Then for vanity, we got rid of the ignition switch.
+1 for the above comment. I would never buy a car with a push button ignition switch.
Even if it doesn't have an actual button, the same functionality is still there on many cars. The ignition switch on my Traverse only signals the ECU that I'm trying to crank; it is not connected to the starter solenoid at all. The ECU controls the starter entirely, so it prevents you from over/under cranking.
EDIT: I forgot that the pushbutton ignitions play the game where you have to hold the button to shut it off. For that, I'm glad I still have a key.
Demand > Request
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Then for vanity, we got rid of the ignition switch.
+1 for the above comment. I would never buy a car with a push button ignition switch.
Even if it doesn't have an actual button, the same functionality is still there on many cars. The ignition switch on my Traverse only signals the ECU that I'm trying to crank; it is not connected to the starter solenoid at all. The ECU controls the starter entirely, so it prevents you from over/under cranking.
EDIT: I forgot that the pushbutton ignitions play the game where you have to hold the button to shut it off. For that, I'm glad I still have a key.
Demand > Request
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Have the owners never heard of a parking brake?
Just the drivers that never drove a manual...OH, that's 96% of today's drivers!
That means 4% of us have a special skill set
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Have the owners never heard of a parking brake?
Just the drivers that never drove a manual...OH, that's 96% of today's drivers!
That means 4% of us have a special skill set
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Have the owners never heard of a parking brake?
Just the drivers that never drove a manual...OH, that's 96% of today's drivers!
That means 4% of us have a special skill set
I got my daughter this T-shirt as a Christmas stocking-stuffer. She loves that none of her friends even think about borrowing her (5-speed) Cherokee...
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Have the owners never heard of a parking brake?
Just the drivers that never drove a manual...OH, that's 96% of today's drivers!
That means 4% of us have a special skill set
I got my daughter this T-shirt as a Christmas stocking-stuffer. She loves that none of her friends even think about borrowing her (5-speed) Cherokee...
Chrysler seems very popular with the urban and "simple" country folk. They are indeed shiny and nice to look at. I don't think they use a system that is so different from other manufactures. Perhaps it is just more challenging for their customer base to operate without dying.
My Ram has the old style column shifter for putting it in drive reverse etc. Glad they still made them available in the 2015 models. Never forgot to put it in park, ever.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Have the owners never heard of a parking brake?
Just the drivers that never drove a manual...OH, that's 96% of today's drivers!
That means 4% of us have a special skill set
If by special skill set you mean a skill that can be taught in a few minutes but that no one cares about any more then yes you are special.
Originally Posted By: ammolab
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Have the owners never heard of a parking brake?
Just the drivers that never drove a manual...OH, that's 96% of today's drivers!
That means 4% of us have a special skill set
If by special skill set you mean a skill that can be taught in a few minutes but that no one cares about any more then yes you are special.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Three pedals, one gearstick and one handbrake lever.
K.I.S.S!!
I prefer 4 pedals!
Three pedals, one gearstick and one handbrake lever.
K.I.S.S!!
I prefer 4 pedals!
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Have the owners never heard of a parking brake?
Some vehicles have electrical parking brake.
My mom's Fusion has one. You can hear when it engages and even feel it in the pedal. I actually have her trained to use it since she doesn't have to push down on a pedal like her last car.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Have the owners never heard of a parking brake?
Some vehicles have electrical parking brake.
My mom's Fusion has one. You can hear when it engages and even feel it in the pedal. I actually have her trained to use it since she doesn't have to push down on a pedal like her last car.
I think the cell phone was the downfall of the manual transmission.
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