Phosphorous in Lucas UCL

[Boomer]

Noticed on the MSDS of Lucas UCL that burning the stuff produces oxides of phosphorous. Therefore, this UCL contains that elemenet. Since phosphorous poisons catalytic converters, how is this safe to use in a modern vehicle???

http://www.lucasoil.com/images/medialibrary/product_msds_9.pdf

 

[GMorg]

I suppose that it could come down to concentration and quantity used.

 

[Durango]

Boomer,

So does that mean that every person in the USA is poisoning their cats when Lucas UCU is used???

Perhspa it's so minute that it might now make a difference. Maybe.

Durango

 

[chevrofreak]

Marvel Mystery Oil also contains a lot of phosphorous.

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Marvel Mystery Oil also contains a lot of phosphorous.


I believe this to be true also. I actually saw an increase of 200ppm of P on a UOA after using MMO (gas) on one of my vehicles when I compared it to a previous UOA (Dyson Analysis) using GC on both UOA's. That was with 4ozs/10 gallons on every fill.

I've since switched to FP+ on two of my vehicles, but continue to use MMO (gas) in my S2000 for it's superior UCL performance.

 

[demarpaint]

MMO hasn't killed my cat yet, so if used properly there is no harm. Its been in use in one of my current fleet for about 20 years via Inverse Oiler, that means it has always been fed MMO since I never let the Inverse Oiler run dry.

I had the above Van inspected yesterday its a 88 with the original cat 67,000 miles.

Here is what the results were:

Emissions Test Limit HC 1.60 (mine -0.03), CO Limit 40 (mine 0.5), NOx Limit 2.50 (mine 0.14). No issues with the cat after 20+ years.

My point is I would think if MMO or Lucas for that matter would destroy a cat converter mine would have long died. My 93 Aerostar with 168,000 has used MMO in the gas since about 55,000 miles and the original cat is just fine. That van passed emissions about a month ago with flying colors. Follow directions and the products will work fine. I've OD'ed both vehicles on occasion too. JMO

 

[Jax_RX8]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC

I actually saw an increase of 200ppm of P on a UOA after using MMO (gas) on one of my vehicles when I compared it to a previous UOA (Dyson Analysis) using GC on both UOA's. That was with 4ozs/10 gallons on every fill.


Interesting - so you think the "blow-by" caused that much of an increase in your oil P level? Actually that might be a good thing!

What was your OCI for that particular analysis?

Thanks!

 

[Boomer]

I guess I was just a bit surprised to see phosphorous compounds in an additive that is supposed to "burn in the combustion chamber" knowing how sensitive the new cats are supposed to be. I mean, the SM oil requires the phosphorous level to be lower so the slight consumption of oil in the combustion chambers doesn't poison the catalyst. I have used MMO and Lucas with no ill effects but was curious to see how others responded. I had never seen this discussed on this board before.

 

[StevieC]

I have used Lucas in the past thinking it was "the s-hit" to use and then I found BITOG and Terry Dyson and since haven't used it and moved on to a better additive IMO.

I used it for every tank of gas, as prescribed on the bottle, on my old Ford Tempo from 60K Miles (100K KM) to double that before I totaled the car and it never affected the converter. I always passed my SMOG tests with flying colours, and if I didn't it was some other part that was the problem.

 

[mckennaiii]

What was the better additive?

 

[StevieC]

FP Plus and RLI's Fuel System Cleaner I use one or the other in alternating tanks.

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: Jax_RX8
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC

I actually saw an increase of 200ppm of P on a UOA after using MMO (gas) on one of my vehicles when I compared it to a previous UOA (Dyson Analysis) using GC on both UOA's. That was with 4ozs/10 gallons on every fill.


Interesting - so you think the "blow-by" caused that much of an increase in your oil P level? Actually that might be a good thing!

What was your OCI for that particular analysis?

Thanks!


Terry didn't notice it or comment on it, but P jumped from 885 to 1083 ppm on two different samples of GC gold in my G35. the first sample was run 4113 miles with Techron gas and Techron concentrate additive, and the second was run 4193 miles with Shell V-power and MMO. The first sample had 1.29% fuel dilution, and the second had 1.60%.

Is MMO a problem for a cat? I don't know, but I won't use it anymore in a car that has documented fuel dilution, just in case it is a problem. As mentioned earlier, I continue to use it in my S2000 that doesn't have a fuel dilution issue. MMO in the gas is the best thing I've found to quiet valvetrain noise. FP+ won't touch valvetrain noise, but I like it for my other vehicles.

One other correlation that I noticed with my Techron UOA and MMO UOA, is that Cu went from 12 to 3 ppm, and Pb went from 21-15 ppm. I'll let you draw your own conclusions on want harm Techron can do to bearings with high fuel dilution.