Ok, trying not to lose my cool here, and would welcome any fruther advice from you guys. Went in to pick it up today at lunch and ran it this time before I left. Runs better than it has since I got it, but still has a bog when mashing the throttle from idle, and runs rough at part throttle, but seems to run fine at full throttle now. Went back in and told them its better but still not right. They took me back to the tech who worked on it, and I explained to him what its doing, and he starts out trying to tell me well, its a 56, and just doesn't have the power to to spin up like the 86 does. I called B.S. and said they all have the same displacement and horsepower specs, that shouldn't be the case. And as far as the part throttle issues, he said thats cause he has it tuned a little rich, which is what you want. Again, I call B.S., it shouldn't run like that, what good does the thing do me if I can't run it at part throttle at times, and I've run into situations like that. I told him I have a 2 stroke string trimmer I can run at any throttle position without issue. I got the impression he was trying to tell me thats just the way this thing is. I started to walk out to my car madder than heck, then thought no, I'm not letting it go at this. I went back in and asked for the salesman that sold it to me, fully intending to tell him I want my money back. I told him I'm not happy with it, told him how its been runnin, how I've had it in for service twice now and its still not right. He offered to replace it with another of the same model, but doesn't have anymore in stock right now, will call me when he gets some in, possibly end of the week. He said if I'm not happy with that one, then we'll discuss other options. I figure atleast hes trying to work with me, so I said ok. My gut tells me I should just get my money back and get an echo, but I do like the blower when it runs right, and I do appreciate the salesman trying to work with me. Needless to say, if this one works out, I definately wont be going back to them for service work. And when he gets the new one in, I'm gonna tell them I want it fueled up with the Stihl Motomix and run in front of me before I take it to eliminate it being an issue with fuel. What would you guys have done in this situation?
Performance issues with my stihl blower/vac
- Thread starter afoulk
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sthil uses a zama carb sometimes you just get a bad one. if you replace the carb with another one i bet it will run fine. i have lots of sthil equiptment and have replaced many carbs over time. i would wait and see how the replacement unit runs.
It sure sounds like you got a bad one. Although, 2 stroke engines don't typically run all that smoothly at idle and low load part throttle. I'm not sure how "rough" your engine is, so I can't directly compare it to both my Stihl's.
If you want, I can send you a video of mine, operating at various throttle openings.
Just remember, Echo and Stihl use the same carb. So the Echo is not better in that regard. In fact, my old Echo's carb just failed and I'm tired of dealing with it. So I purchased Stihl's. As the current Echo's are weaker.
If you want, I can send you a video of mine, operating at various throttle openings.
Just remember, Echo and Stihl use the same carb. So the Echo is not better in that regard. In fact, my old Echo's carb just failed and I'm tired of dealing with it. So I purchased Stihl's. As the current Echo's are weaker.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
It sure sounds like you got a bad one. Although, 2 stroke engines don't typically run all that smoothly at idle and low load part throttle. I'm not sure how "rough" your engine is, so I can't directly compare it to both my Stihl's.
If you want, I can send you a video of mine, operating at various throttle openings.
Just remember, Echo and Stihl use the same carb. So the Echo is not better in that regard. In fact, my old Echo's carb just failed and I'm tired of dealing with it. So I purchased Stihl's. As the current Echo's are weaker.
It runs like its loading up at part throttle. It runs rough, lots of vibration, and you can hear and feel it kinda run rough, clear up, run rough, and keep going back and forth like it did at full throttle after I had it in the shop the first time.
That was one of the reasons I didn't go with echo to begin with, had quite a few people tell me their quality wasn't what it used to be. Was also told by the echo dealer, who also sells shindaiwa, that guys who like to tinker with their stuff like the shindaiwa blowers because their carbs are adjustable, where as the echo isn't, but I wanted something that would also vacuum, and shindaiwa doesn't have anything like that. Briefly considered Husqvarna, but I'm not overly impressed with the string trimmer I have from them, and I'm pretty sure their handheld blowers use the same engine as my trimmer. Its also loud. Only other manufacturer that makes a blower/vac and has a dealer anywhere close to me is EFCO, and I was intrigued by their products, but warranty coverage and parts availability kinda scared me off. But I don't know, if they would be more reliable, maybe EFCO would be a better option. I mean, taking awhile to get parts can't be any worse than my experience I've had with my Stihl dealer so far. I've had this thing 3 weeks now and its still not fixed.
It sure sounds like you got a bad one. Although, 2 stroke engines don't typically run all that smoothly at idle and low load part throttle. I'm not sure how "rough" your engine is, so I can't directly compare it to both my Stihl's.
If you want, I can send you a video of mine, operating at various throttle openings.
Just remember, Echo and Stihl use the same carb. So the Echo is not better in that regard. In fact, my old Echo's carb just failed and I'm tired of dealing with it. So I purchased Stihl's. As the current Echo's are weaker.
It runs like its loading up at part throttle. It runs rough, lots of vibration, and you can hear and feel it kinda run rough, clear up, run rough, and keep going back and forth like it did at full throttle after I had it in the shop the first time.
That was one of the reasons I didn't go with echo to begin with, had quite a few people tell me their quality wasn't what it used to be. Was also told by the echo dealer, who also sells shindaiwa, that guys who like to tinker with their stuff like the shindaiwa blowers because their carbs are adjustable, where as the echo isn't, but I wanted something that would also vacuum, and shindaiwa doesn't have anything like that. Briefly considered Husqvarna, but I'm not overly impressed with the string trimmer I have from them, and I'm pretty sure their handheld blowers use the same engine as my trimmer. Its also loud. Only other manufacturer that makes a blower/vac and has a dealer anywhere close to me is EFCO, and I was intrigued by their products, but warranty coverage and parts availability kinda scared me off. But I don't know, if they would be more reliable, maybe EFCO would be a better option. I mean, taking awhile to get parts can't be any worse than my experience I've had with my Stihl dealer so far. I've had this thing 3 weeks now and its still not fixed.
does it fully warmed up or cold. actually seems to run a little better when cold
I have a Stihl blower (can't remember the number, but it is the little cheaper one) that's about 10 years old and I had carb issues with it when it was new also. I eventually had to take it in to a different stihl dealer (after warranty, of course) and they replaced a part in the carb. Repair was like 65 bucks or so. I can almost bet money you have a bad carb. BTW my Stihl is still running excellent and that has been the only issue. I wish I was more persistent and I could have avoided a repair bill.
I have a BG56 and it bogs when cold, it was much worse when new but now it only bogs for about 10 seconds then runs good. By one minute it runs great.
I found that using the primer made it worse.
My starting sequence is:
Choke on
Throttle full open
Pull until it tries to start
Choke off
Pull agin and it starts but bogs
Hold throttle full open until it cleans up
Runs fine after that.
I think they are a bit finicky but once I figured out the start sequence it's been a good machine.
I found that using the primer made it worse.
My starting sequence is:
Choke on
Throttle full open
Pull until it tries to start
Choke off
Pull agin and it starts but bogs
Hold throttle full open until it cleans up
Runs fine after that.
I think they are a bit finicky but once I figured out the start sequence it's been a good machine.
Originally Posted By: tom slick
I have a BG56 and it bogs when cold, it was much worse when new but now it only bogs for about 10 seconds then runs good. By one minute it runs great.
I found that using the primer made it worse.
My starting sequence is:
Choke on
Throttle full open
Pull until it tries to start
Choke off
Pull agin and it starts but bogs
Hold throttle full open until it cleans up
Runs fine after that.
I think they are a bit finicky but once I figured out the start sequence it's been a good machine.
Mine was doing it when hot though. In fact, it seemed to run better when cold
I have a BG56 and it bogs when cold, it was much worse when new but now it only bogs for about 10 seconds then runs good. By one minute it runs great.
I found that using the primer made it worse.
My starting sequence is:
Choke on
Throttle full open
Pull until it tries to start
Choke off
Pull agin and it starts but bogs
Hold throttle full open until it cleans up
Runs fine after that.
I think they are a bit finicky but once I figured out the start sequence it's been a good machine.
Mine was doing it when hot though. In fact, it seemed to run better when cold
Update....exchanged mine for the new one today. Ran it for awhile before bringing it home. It bogged a couple times, but it was hardly noticeable. I was happy. Just to be safe, I dumped out what little premix they had in it dumped in a can of the stihl gas to eliminate any issues with the gas. Picked up a gutter kit and proceeded to blow my gutters out. It was boggy right off the bat, but I attributed that to it trying to blow air through 10ft of small diameter pipe. Got done there and switcher up to blowing leaves. Runs worse than the old one did. It actually stalled on me a couple times. If I would just touch the trigger, it would stall. Even just easing into the throttle would almost stall it. Almost impossible to modulate the throttle. Anyways, I finished blowing, then vacuumed everything up. Cold weather is here and with Christmas a week away, I'm just not going to have time to mess around with the yard anymore.
So what do I do here guys? Run a few more tanks through it to let it fully break in and see how it runs? This could take till middle of next summer now that winter is here, just won't have much need for the thing? Should I take it to another dealer for adjustment? I won't take it back to the one I bought it from for work anymore. I feel that if the tech knew what he was doing, the first one would have been running OK, and I gave him two trys at it. I feel that it might just be a matter of adjustment if this is two in a row that have acted like this for me. Or do I take it back and tell him I want my money back? I'm afraid to do that as I've been told most of the other manufacturers use zama carbs too. I always here from people who bought echo blowers though that said theirs ran great from day one, never even had to readjust once broken in. Does efco still use walbro carbs on their blowers? I have a dealer not to far from me. Their parts availability scares me, but I don't want to keep going through this if it's zama carbs that are a problem. I'm tempted to remove the adjustment limiters and adjust the thing my self, but I don't have a tach to do it properly. I'm definitely calling the salesman Monday, but I'm not sure what to tell him I want done yet.
So what do I do here guys? Run a few more tanks through it to let it fully break in and see how it runs? This could take till middle of next summer now that winter is here, just won't have much need for the thing? Should I take it to another dealer for adjustment? I won't take it back to the one I bought it from for work anymore. I feel that if the tech knew what he was doing, the first one would have been running OK, and I gave him two trys at it. I feel that it might just be a matter of adjustment if this is two in a row that have acted like this for me. Or do I take it back and tell him I want my money back? I'm afraid to do that as I've been told most of the other manufacturers use zama carbs too. I always here from people who bought echo blowers though that said theirs ran great from day one, never even had to readjust once broken in. Does efco still use walbro carbs on their blowers? I have a dealer not to far from me. Their parts availability scares me, but I don't want to keep going through this if it's zama carbs that are a problem. I'm tempted to remove the adjustment limiters and adjust the thing my self, but I don't have a tach to do it properly. I'm definitely calling the salesman Monday, but I'm not sure what to tell him I want done yet.
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Originally Posted By: afoulk
Update....exchanged mine for the new one today. Ran it for awhile before bringing it home. It bogged a couple times, but it was hardly noticeable. I was happy. Just to be safe, I dumped out what little premix they had in it dumped in a can of the stihl gas to eliminate any issues with the gas. Picked up a gutter kit and proceeded to blow my gutters out. It was boggy right off the bat, but I attributed that to it trying to blow air through 10ft of small diameter pipe. Got done there and switcher up to blowing leaves. Runs worse than the old one did. It actually stalled on me a couple times. If I would just touch the trigger, it would stall. Even just easing into the throttle would almost stall it. Almost impossible to modulate the throttle. Anyways, I finished blowing, then vacuumed everything up. Cold weather is here and with Christmas a week away, I'm just not going to have time to mess around with the yard anymore.
So what do I do here guys? Run a few more tanks through it to let it fully break in and see how it runs? This could take till middle of next summer now that winter is here, just won't have much need for the thing? Should I take it to another dealer for adjustment? I won't take it back to the one I bought it from for work anymore. I feel that if the tech knew what he was doing, the first one would have been running OK, and I gave him two trys at it. I feel that it might just be a matter of adjustment if this is two in a row that have acted like this for me. Or do I take it back and tell him I want my money back? I'm afraid to do that as I've been told most of the other manufacturers use zama carbs too. I always here from people who bought echo blowers though that said theirs ran great from day one, never even had to readjust once broken in. Does efco still use walbro carbs on their blowers? I have a dealer not to far from me. Their parts availability scares me, but I don't want to keep going through this if it's zama carbs that are a problem. I'm tempted to remove the adjustment limiters and adjust the thing my self, but I don't have a tach to do it properly. I'm definitely calling the salesman Monday, but I'm not sure what to tell him I want done yet.
Refund it I'd pick up the newer Echo blowers. They are much better than the older ones very easy to start. The Echo PB-255LN is used on a commercial level has been a dependable blower for smaller jobs. No problems with start up.
I've owned a Stihl MS180 and had the hardest time starting it when new. Once broken in it starts great but now it bogs down when at full throttle. The hour usage is very low might had strain it when breaking it in as decided to use it to cut Kiawe wood(hardwood). Could be the fault of breaking in too hard I DON'T KNOW but for a blower it's not like a chainsaw it depends what type of wood is being cut and how hard it gets pushed.
From experience I'd return a problem 2 stroke.
Update....exchanged mine for the new one today. Ran it for awhile before bringing it home. It bogged a couple times, but it was hardly noticeable. I was happy. Just to be safe, I dumped out what little premix they had in it dumped in a can of the stihl gas to eliminate any issues with the gas. Picked up a gutter kit and proceeded to blow my gutters out. It was boggy right off the bat, but I attributed that to it trying to blow air through 10ft of small diameter pipe. Got done there and switcher up to blowing leaves. Runs worse than the old one did. It actually stalled on me a couple times. If I would just touch the trigger, it would stall. Even just easing into the throttle would almost stall it. Almost impossible to modulate the throttle. Anyways, I finished blowing, then vacuumed everything up. Cold weather is here and with Christmas a week away, I'm just not going to have time to mess around with the yard anymore.
So what do I do here guys? Run a few more tanks through it to let it fully break in and see how it runs? This could take till middle of next summer now that winter is here, just won't have much need for the thing? Should I take it to another dealer for adjustment? I won't take it back to the one I bought it from for work anymore. I feel that if the tech knew what he was doing, the first one would have been running OK, and I gave him two trys at it. I feel that it might just be a matter of adjustment if this is two in a row that have acted like this for me. Or do I take it back and tell him I want my money back? I'm afraid to do that as I've been told most of the other manufacturers use zama carbs too. I always here from people who bought echo blowers though that said theirs ran great from day one, never even had to readjust once broken in. Does efco still use walbro carbs on their blowers? I have a dealer not to far from me. Their parts availability scares me, but I don't want to keep going through this if it's zama carbs that are a problem. I'm tempted to remove the adjustment limiters and adjust the thing my self, but I don't have a tach to do it properly. I'm definitely calling the salesman Monday, but I'm not sure what to tell him I want done yet.
Refund it I'd pick up the newer Echo blowers. They are much better than the older ones very easy to start. The Echo PB-255LN is used on a commercial level has been a dependable blower for smaller jobs. No problems with start up.
I've owned a Stihl MS180 and had the hardest time starting it when new. Once broken in it starts great but now it bogs down when at full throttle. The hour usage is very low might had strain it when breaking it in as decided to use it to cut Kiawe wood(hardwood). Could be the fault of breaking in too hard I DON'T KNOW but for a blower it's not like a chainsaw it depends what type of wood is being cut and how hard it gets pushed.
From experience I'd return a problem 2 stroke.
Well, the salesman beat me to it today. He actually called me before I left to go into work and asked how the new blower worked for me. Told him how it ran and he was as baffled as I am. Asked if I wanted to try a Husqvarna since I have one of their string trimmers, told him I'm not interested in one of those. Dropped it off with him on my way into work, their gonna try to fix it and maybe even contact stihl. If this doesn't work out, I'm going for my money back. This has been over a month now and its getting rediculous.
Originally Posted By: afoulk
Asked if I wanted to try a Husqvarna since I have one of their string trimmers, told him I'm not interested in one of those.
Why are you against trying a Husqvarna? All of my OPE is Husqvarna with my string trimmer and blower being around 13 years old now and they still run perfectly. My 2 stroke fuel is LL100 AV Gas mixed with Klotz R50 oil and I never suffer from any problems.
Asked if I wanted to try a Husqvarna since I have one of their string trimmers, told him I'm not interested in one of those.
Why are you against trying a Husqvarna? All of my OPE is Husqvarna with my string trimmer and blower being around 13 years old now and they still run perfectly. My 2 stroke fuel is LL100 AV Gas mixed with Klotz R50 oil and I never suffer from any problems.
It could be a problem specific to that model. I'd purchase something else.
I'm really happy with both of my Stihl bg86's. They run perfectly. And, while I thought the engine was the same, it may not be.
I'm really happy with both of my Stihl bg86's. They run perfectly. And, while I thought the engine was the same, it may not be.
Originally Posted By: 1foxracing
Originally Posted By: afoulk
Asked if I wanted to try a Husqvarna since I have one of their string trimmers, told him I'm not interested in one of those.
Why are you against trying a Husqvarna? All of my OPE is Husqvarna with my string trimmer and blower being around 13 years old now and they still run perfectly. My 2 stroke fuel is LL100 AV Gas mixed with Klotz R50 oil and I never suffer from any problems.
I don't have an issue with Husqvarna themselves. I have they're consumer grade 128LD trimmer, and its never given me an issue in the 4 yrs I've had it, and I thought it was great until I used my mom's echo. I didn't realize how loud mine was and how much vibration I got through my hands until I used the echo. After an hour with mine, my fingers would be stiff and sore. I used my mom's echo for about 4 hours when we cleared some of the brush from her septic drain field, and my hands didn't bother me one bit, and the thing was so quiet. I wanted to avoid the Husky 125bvx blower because its the same engine as my trimmer, and the few videos I've watched demonstrating it on youtube, it seems just as loud. The stihl may be just as loud, but it just has a more pleasing tone. I know, splitting hairs, but I figured if I'm spending the money, then I want to be happy with every aspect of the product I purchase. I also don't care for the design of their bag for the the vacuum kit. The stihl and echo's have a strap that goes around the inlet of the bag, and you just loosen that to take the bag off and empty it. You have to slide the pipe through the bag and feed it through the inlet hole when installing it on the husky, meaning when it comes time to empty the bag, you either have to take the whole pipe off the husky, or try and empty the bag with the whole blower still attached to the bag. Husqvarna's suction tube also just slips into the blower housing and then clips fast when you rotate the tube to the lock position and I've read reviews where owners had the locking tabs where out on the suction tube or the blower housing and the tube would no longer stay tight. The stihl's use a locking collar and just seems like a more durable setup. I just prefer the stihl from a design aspect, great power and air flow, light weight, well balanced, and I like the design of of the vacuum kit better, I just can't seem to get one that runs right at anything other than full throttle.
Originally Posted By: afoulk
Asked if I wanted to try a Husqvarna since I have one of their string trimmers, told him I'm not interested in one of those.
Why are you against trying a Husqvarna? All of my OPE is Husqvarna with my string trimmer and blower being around 13 years old now and they still run perfectly. My 2 stroke fuel is LL100 AV Gas mixed with Klotz R50 oil and I never suffer from any problems.
I don't have an issue with Husqvarna themselves. I have they're consumer grade 128LD trimmer, and its never given me an issue in the 4 yrs I've had it, and I thought it was great until I used my mom's echo. I didn't realize how loud mine was and how much vibration I got through my hands until I used the echo. After an hour with mine, my fingers would be stiff and sore. I used my mom's echo for about 4 hours when we cleared some of the brush from her septic drain field, and my hands didn't bother me one bit, and the thing was so quiet. I wanted to avoid the Husky 125bvx blower because its the same engine as my trimmer, and the few videos I've watched demonstrating it on youtube, it seems just as loud. The stihl may be just as loud, but it just has a more pleasing tone. I know, splitting hairs, but I figured if I'm spending the money, then I want to be happy with every aspect of the product I purchase. I also don't care for the design of their bag for the the vacuum kit. The stihl and echo's have a strap that goes around the inlet of the bag, and you just loosen that to take the bag off and empty it. You have to slide the pipe through the bag and feed it through the inlet hole when installing it on the husky, meaning when it comes time to empty the bag, you either have to take the whole pipe off the husky, or try and empty the bag with the whole blower still attached to the bag. Husqvarna's suction tube also just slips into the blower housing and then clips fast when you rotate the tube to the lock position and I've read reviews where owners had the locking tabs where out on the suction tube or the blower housing and the tube would no longer stay tight. The stihl's use a locking collar and just seems like a more durable setup. I just prefer the stihl from a design aspect, great power and air flow, light weight, well balanced, and I like the design of of the vacuum kit better, I just can't seem to get one that runs right at anything other than full throttle.
^ Good enough answer for me, always buy what works for you personally and good luck on your quest!
Well, they had the thing for just over a week, understandable with the holidays. Salesman called me this morning to tell me they've run two tanks through it, adjusted on it, and that it maybe a little less responsive than I'd like, but that it's as good as they can get it. Hes leaving it up to me what I want to do. We talked about the fact that maybe it's running better for them now that it's had 4 tanks of fuel run through it and its breaking in. I said that maybe, but with winter here, its basically gonna sit till spring, and I don't wanna wait till then to find out its basically a dud. He said he's willing to take it back, and give me a sh 86 ce to try, and I'd just have to pay the extra $90 in the price difference. He says they've sold a lot of them and not had any complaints. But again, its gonna basically sit till spring unused, and I really don't wanna wait that long to find out that runs poorly too. The one I have now ran great when I picked it up, but got worse after I got it home and put it to work, who's to say the next one won't be the same. It is the model I originally wanted, I was just trying to save a few bucks. Are the engines between the 56 and 86 really any different? I should just ask for my money back, but he has tried to work with me, and I do appreciate that. Going to talk to him at lunch, I'll see how mine runs now before I decide. Maybe get him to let me run an 86 and compare.
Remembered this thread as I ran my Stihl BG55 today in -10°C / 14°F weather (blowing light snow off the front porch)
Even with the 2 month old leftover dirtbike premix (32:1 / 95 octane)
stored in an un-heated garage it started right up,
throttle response was slightly sluggish until warmed-up
(1 minute or so of light throttle blips)
afterwards it ran fine, just like in summertime.
Even with the 2 month old leftover dirtbike premix (32:1 / 95 octane)
stored in an un-heated garage it started right up,
throttle response was slightly sluggish until warmed-up
(1 minute or so of light throttle blips)
afterwards it ran fine, just like in summertime.
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Well, third time was the charm. I still wasn't happy with the way my blower ran when I went back in there. Was far better than ever before, bit still would intermittently bog down, and I don't know what the tech did, but the semi auto choke would not open up every time when hitting the throttle after start up. I decided the heck with it, if he was offering to let me return it and just pay the difference for a sh 86 c-e, I was taking it. And I couldn't be happier. Runs great, blowing power is awesome! I told them don't even bother filling it and running it before I take it home because that obviously hasn't done me any good. Got it home, filled it with some motomix, and it fired on the third pull. I get a slight bog every once in awhile, but I've only run a tank and a half through it. I'm gonna run 4 or 5 through it and if it doesn't clear up, I'll take it to another dealer for adjustment. Should have just got what I wanted the first time around I guess.
Originally Posted By: afoulk
And I couldn't be happier. Runs great, blowing power is awesome! I told them don't even bother filling it and running it before I take it home because that obviously hasn't done me any good. Got it home, filled it with some motomix, and it fired on the third pull. I get a slight bog every once in awhile, but I've only run a tank and a half through it. I'm gonna run 4 or 5 through it and if it doesn't clear up, I'll take it to another dealer for adjustment. Should have just got what I wanted the first time around I guess.
I have 2 of the 86's. They run great! Yes, from idle, there is a slight hesitation, and I mean slight. I tested it after posting a response to you the other day. I blow-dry my 2 acre yard and my aircraft hangar. Both blowers run exactly the same way. They don't "instantly" achieve full power like a dirt bike engine under "no load" would at the starting line of a race. But, after a split second, they spool right up and run perfectly. I absolutely love mine. And truth be told, they blow hard, even at part throttle! I can find no fault with them.
And I couldn't be happier. Runs great, blowing power is awesome! I told them don't even bother filling it and running it before I take it home because that obviously hasn't done me any good. Got it home, filled it with some motomix, and it fired on the third pull. I get a slight bog every once in awhile, but I've only run a tank and a half through it. I'm gonna run 4 or 5 through it and if it doesn't clear up, I'll take it to another dealer for adjustment. Should have just got what I wanted the first time around I guess.
I have 2 of the 86's. They run great! Yes, from idle, there is a slight hesitation, and I mean slight. I tested it after posting a response to you the other day. I blow-dry my 2 acre yard and my aircraft hangar. Both blowers run exactly the same way. They don't "instantly" achieve full power like a dirt bike engine under "no load" would at the starting line of a race. But, after a split second, they spool right up and run perfectly. I absolutely love mine. And truth be told, they blow hard, even at part throttle! I can find no fault with them.
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