Penrite 10-Tenths Racing (10w40) - aussies?

[zaibatsu]

Anyone analysed or used this oil or have an opinion?
Penrite's new racing lineup has a strong AW additive package which I like (generous ZDDP, Boron, Moly), and claims to use PAO/Ester base oils. I understand IV/V may not make up all of the base oil (or even much?), but it was on special quite cheap so I thought I'd give it a go.

Probably more a question for the Australian folk on here.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/010 TENTHS RACING OIL 10 JUNE 2013.pdf

Keep in mind the 2200ppm claim is combined with boron and maybe other AW, not zinc alone.

I just did an oil change with it and will comment back. If it's good then it's handy because it's much cheaper than M1/RP/AMS/RL here.

 

[Shannow]

Got 5L of it in my Nissan Diesel...amongst what else is in it.

 

[virginoil]

I am currently using in lieu of other synthetics mentioned by the OP.

As I follow the OEMs maximum recommended OCIs limits I am not concerned and will not pay extra for UOAs.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Racing 10 is suitable for “normal” on road use in a wide range of vehicles. It can be used where SAE 10W-
30 grade engine oils are specified. It may also be used in light duty petrol and diesel engines up to 2008
where ACEA A3/B4 is specified.


I disagree. Not with that much ZDDP in there. This is a racing oil for racing and racing oils are meant to be changed every few races.

They also admit that it does not contain friction modifiers which improve mpg.

 

[CATERHAM]

With that much ZDDP I'd be inclined not to use this oil straight but blend it with a fuel conserving oil that is low on ZDDP.
I'd aim for a target ZDDP level no higher than 1300 ppm.

 

[supercity]

The previous formulation of 10 tenths Racing (and Premium/Sin) had less ZDDP, about 1250ppm. They moved to this high ZDDP formulation only 2 or 3 months ago. They do not disclose the change and that when buying from a store you could be buying the older formulation.

 

[zaibatsu]

Will see how it goes on its own for one OCI. This car has 5000km (3100mi) stock intervals so it's not in there for very long.

Looks like 1690ppm Zn. All I can find is one internet hearsay post (copied a few times) with little actual backing, claiming that over 2000ppm is detrimental to wear. The people actually pulling apart engines seem to disagree.

This car ran smoother at high revs on RP than other oils I tried, and so far the Penrite seems just as good.

With the need to buy HPS ($) to get the old RP additive package (or 75/25 mix HPS/SN) I'm hoping to move on.

Still open to comments from others using it. Being locally made the pricing and availability are excellent.

 

[zaibatsu]

Sorry 1680ppm Zn.
Also a TBN of 9.8, MolaKule, not sure why you are suggesting it's a race-only oil. ZDDP has little correlation to OCIs, it's not like changing oil is going to magically lower its ppm. I believe OCIs are generally judged by TBN, and perhaps insolubles and wear metals.

I am however interested in Penrite's responses in regards to:
- Beneficial / detrimental levels of ZDDP
- Actual Group IV/V content of oil vs. marketing rubbish
- HTHS value

I sent them an email asking, obviously the synthetic question is never going to get a straight answer but am still curious about their response. Will post up what I get.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: zaibatsu
Looks like 1690ppm Zn. All I can find is one internet hearsay post (copied a few times) with little actual backing, claiming that over 2000ppm is detrimental to wear. The people actually pulling apart engines seem to disagree.

Over a certain amount isn't detrimental to wear at all. It's corrosive, which is a different matter altogether.

 

[supercity]

Originally Posted By: zaibatsu
Sorry 1680ppm Zn.

I am however interested in Penrite's responses in regards to:
- Beneficial / detrimental levels of ZDDP
- Actual Group IV/V content of oil vs. marketing rubbish
- HTHS value


I have asked for the HTHS before, they declined. I would be interested to hear their response about the ZDDP level.

 

[Trex101]

Both my Territory and 380 runs so much better with RP in term of response, smoothness and fuel consumption, tried Penrite once and don't like it, will still stick with RP.

 

[zaibatsu]

I received a response quickly:

"Based on your enquiry:
HT/HS for Racing 10W-40 is 4.49 cP
For Premium 0W-50 it’s 4.59 cP.

Addition of further zinc to a complete oil may well upset the formulation and interfere with other additives. However, when a carefully formulated oil is designed with an in-built level of zinc at a high level we can assume that the chemical engineer knows his stuff.

All the base oil in the Racing oils we make is a combination of Group IV & Group V, no Group III or other. Naturally, base oil only accounts for around 85% of the finished product, regardless of who makes it. Even our “semi-synthetics” contain a t least 20% synthetic base and often a lot more."

 

[supercity]

Holy Moly 4.49cP! That would indicate a "100%" G4/5 oil. If this is all true it makes the other majors look well overpriced.

 

[zaibatsu]

Does seem to be worse for fuel economy, maybe because the viscosity is essentially higher? Can't imagine the extra ~400ppm Zn over the old RP could be causing it, but maybe combined with the boron it's a contributor?

Wonder if a 30 grade would be a better bet in this oil, even though the car calls for 10w40.

 

[supercity]

What car?

 

[zaibatsu]

S15 / Turbo.

Looks like the old formula RP I ran before was around 4.0 claimed, would that 0.5 make up the difference? Any thoughts or suggestions?

The 5w30 version (link below) of the oil in question seems quite different, they mention the use of friction modifiers, compared to the 10w40 in my OP that uses none.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/010 TENTHS RACING OIL 5 JUNE 2013.pdf

What's the story there? I think the viscosity numbers are typos/errors, I'll email and ask for those + HTHS soon.

 

[supercity]

That's an old link. Here is the current one

The 5w30 is quite light. HTHS is likely to be well under 4.0. 10 tenths is an overkil if you are not racing. Penrite also makes Everyday full syn 10w40 and HPR 5w40 that would be suitable. My Fiat also specs synthetic 10w40. I was thinking about using Delvac 1 5w40 next time. You can get it rom ECLubes for a reasonable price.

 

[zaibatsu]

I think we linked the same file? It's the June '13 version.

Maybe I should try the Everyday 10w40 next time, you're probably right.

I did like that the 10 tenths uses the nice base stocks, and it's not that expensive anyway. I might just ask for the HTHS values for all their highend oils and go from there. Do you think that's the best measurement of functional viscosity and possibly friction/losses?

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: zaibatsu
Does seem to be worse for fuel economy, maybe because the viscosity is essentially higher? Can't imagine the extra ~400ppm Zn over the old RP could be causing it, but maybe combined with the boron it's a contributor?

Wonder if a 30 grade would be a better bet in this oil, even though the car calls for 10w40.


For viscosity impacting fuel economy this is the last of your worries. Low pressure in the tyres will have greater impact on mpg.

As to the higher ZDDP for classic vehicles I have read 1600ppm is OK, which is the ball park for this oil.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: Trex101
Both my Territory and 380 runs so much better with RP in term of response, smoothness and fuel consumption, tried Penrite once and don't like it, will still stick with RP.


Which grade of Penrite did you try ?