I really want to believe this is uncommon. I used the 10W-30 HM and a UOA when I changed it showed the add package to be normal just like the others UOA's we've seen...quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II:
Geez, I hope the 10w30 HM I just put in my Chrysler doesn't have this problem.
Pennzoil High Mileage 5w-30 SL
- Thread starter ToyotaNSaturn
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If there is something wrong with this BATCH of HM 5W30 we will know next week. The Regional Tech Manager where ToyotaNSaturn sent the oil has been out of town this week, but will return Friday morning. He will then fill out the report with the information that I have given him along with copies of both Blackstone reports to our National Tech Center in Houston. Remember this, there is a BATCH number on the bottles that ToyotaNSaturn had purchased in TN. Has absolutly nothing to do with any 10W30 or 10W40 HM oils, or probably any other 5W30 HM oil. You can be sure if we find something wrong with the oil, everyone will know about it.
Don't for one minute believe that Mobil or any other oil company has not made a mistake on blending oil. Usually if a mistake is made, it's caught before they package it. As I said in an earlier post, if it is, they will trace where that batch number was sold and recall it. If for some reason this oil causes an engine problem, we will fix it.
I will post again at this thread when I hear the results.
Don't for one minute believe that Mobil or any other oil company has not made a mistake on blending oil. Usually if a mistake is made, it's caught before they package it. As I said in an earlier post, if it is, they will trace where that batch number was sold and recall it. If for some reason this oil causes an engine problem, we will fix it.
I will post again at this thread when I hear the results.
There is no way that all Pennzoil or most Pennzoil oil can have a problem (of being extremely low in additive content). Pennzoil as far as I know is still the top selling motor oil in the United States. If there was a problem with ALL Pennzoil oil it would have been obvious already, because a lot of cars and trucks would be experiencing engine problems and probably severe sludging. So probably there was a problem with just one batch.
Question 1: How much oil would there be in one batch? Enough for hundreds of cars and trucks? Enough for thousands?
Question 2: As I said above there is probably a problem with just one batch of oil, or else we are looking at a lab problem. That being said, how often can this sort of thing happen? Pennzoil is probably one of the best motor oil companies. There are other companies that probably have lower standards. So how often is a batch of oil going to be bad? Even if it happens very rarely, if you are one of the ones unlucky enough to get some oil from a bad batch, the engine in your car or truck is going to suffer.
I think I am going to add maybe some Valvoline MaxLife oil supplement each time I change oil, and a maintenance dose of Auto-RX to keep the engine clean. A little MaxLife oil supplement or Schaeffer's oil supplement would be cheap insurance that there is adequate oil additive content-just in case I happen to get some oil from a bad batch.
Question 1: How much oil would there be in one batch? Enough for hundreds of cars and trucks? Enough for thousands?
Question 2: As I said above there is probably a problem with just one batch of oil, or else we are looking at a lab problem. That being said, how often can this sort of thing happen? Pennzoil is probably one of the best motor oil companies. There are other companies that probably have lower standards. So how often is a batch of oil going to be bad? Even if it happens very rarely, if you are one of the ones unlucky enough to get some oil from a bad batch, the engine in your car or truck is going to suffer.
I think I am going to add maybe some Valvoline MaxLife oil supplement each time I change oil, and a maintenance dose of Auto-RX to keep the engine clean. A little MaxLife oil supplement or Schaeffer's oil supplement would be cheap insurance that there is adequate oil additive content-just in case I happen to get some oil from a bad batch.
I know what Johnny is saying is correct. I remember Bob going on and on about a batch of Chevron 15W-40 which was actually straight 30.
And even with that one batch of pennzoil, it's probably just a few bottles at the very beginning or the very end which were lacking in additives.
I remember once I got a bag of sour cream 'n onion potato chips ... and most of them were plain. Writing to the company, they explained this sometimes happened at the very beginning or end of a batch. Made sense to me.
Think about it. Look how many UOAs we see ... and how many of ANY brand looks like there's a problem with the additive package??
However, when I use my Pennzoil HM 10W-30, I'm going to add some Red Line (bought some at Advance for $5.95 per quart). I bought just one quart to
use as an additive in a few applications, my snowblower is one of them.
--- Bror Jace
And even with that one batch of pennzoil, it's probably just a few bottles at the very beginning or the very end which were lacking in additives.
I remember once I got a bag of sour cream 'n onion potato chips ... and most of them were plain. Writing to the company, they explained this sometimes happened at the very beginning or end of a batch. Made sense to me.
Think about it. Look how many UOAs we see ... and how many of ANY brand looks like there's a problem with the additive package??
However, when I use my Pennzoil HM 10W-30, I'm going to add some Red Line (bought some at Advance for $5.95 per quart). I bought just one quart to
use as an additive in a few applications, my snowblower is one of them.
--- Bror Jace
I will be following this thread... can't wait to see Pennzoils response.
Now you guys have me concerned about Pennzoil-Quaker State's quality control and these 3 cases of Quaker State 10W-30 I have in stock - considering Pennzoil and QS come from the same company. I hate to have to spend money I supposedly "saved" buying this QS on sale to get a VOA done on it before I can feel safe using it! Geez--- what a deal!
I'm beginning to think this is a standard HM report and not just for Penzoil. I suspect that many of these oils are getting reformulated with more than just a reduction in P. My guess is that the price of antimony adds is coming down or that the purchasing power of large oil companies is making it a viable add that won't require another oil reformulation in a couple of years due to API.
From the looks of things, the winds of change have arrived. Looks like everything is changing. (That silly Bob Dylan song is in my head, someone please help me!!) The add packs are all different than most we've seen from the major players.
Blackstone bought this sample and re-ran it themselves (which was VERY kind of them to go the extra mile!!!) A bit of Moly and a lot of other things we can't see (antimony?).
Molakule in other threads has shown his excellent knowledge long ago in predicting these changes. Hats off to Mola!
I really don't believe it's lab error given the amount of "odd-looking" VOA's we've seen. I applaud Blackstone for going above and beyond in this situation!
[ February 21, 2005, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: ToyotaNSaturn ]
Blackstone bought this sample and re-ran it themselves (which was VERY kind of them to go the extra mile!!!) A bit of Moly and a lot of other things we can't see (antimony?).
Molakule in other threads has shown his excellent knowledge long ago in predicting these changes. Hats off to Mola!
I really don't believe it's lab error given the amount of "odd-looking" VOA's we've seen. I applaud Blackstone for going above and beyond in this situation!
[ February 21, 2005, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: ToyotaNSaturn ]
Wow, hats off to Blackstone for their extra efforts!
But this is still disappointing. I won't use these oils anymore for heavy duty use.
For the quart I have I'll supplement it with some Red Line 5W-30 and/or some Schaeffer 132.
--- Bror Jace
But this is still disappointing. I won't use these oils anymore for heavy duty use.
For the quart I have I'll supplement it with some Red Line 5W-30 and/or some Schaeffer 132.
--- Bror Jace
I am no chemist but somehow it just does not sit right with me that they are apparently lowering the additive content of these new oils. I can see the reduction in ZDDP to protect the cat, but what is the point of lowering the calcium? Of course, if the new additive package is much more effective maybe you need a lot less of everything. It still is disturbing to me, however. Lose the ZDDP, find a replacement for it that will not destroy the cat, and keep the rest of the stuff.
Congratulations guys on seeing for yourselves that oils change,add packs are changed forever and actually the SM/GF4 add packs will be every bit a good as the older ones with much improved volatility and piston deposit control. Actually the whole matrix of a average GF4 oil using at least a grp II base will perform like a syn of old in many ways.
The Mass Spec tests that the lab is delaying on Zoil is much the same technology, using adds that we haven't explored in depth here and that work very well.
Prediction : Pennzoil/Shell didn't make a mistake, they are switching over to the new add packs and that is what you see here. They may have mistakenly added the basic add pack to the HM oils base package in this case but I do not see a problem with the chemistry from my point of view.
Hats off to Johnny for his rush to investigate, you are truly a gentleman and Shell should take note bro !
Confirmation : Blackstone does a better job than our current in-house lab at accuracy ! The fact that Ryan reran and went out on his own to procure off the shelf oils is a testament to customer service we are trying to provide.
millerl if you had problems with Bklabs you did not try hard enough to research the issue in my limited estimation. I am a complete pain in the buttocks to my contract labs if they aren't accurate. BKlabs is the least trouble to date for Dyson Analysis.
Of course I am always looking for that better bang for the buck !!
The Mass Spec tests that the lab is delaying on Zoil is much the same technology, using adds that we haven't explored in depth here and that work very well.
Prediction : Pennzoil/Shell didn't make a mistake, they are switching over to the new add packs and that is what you see here. They may have mistakenly added the basic add pack to the HM oils base package in this case but I do not see a problem with the chemistry from my point of view.
Hats off to Johnny for his rush to investigate, you are truly a gentleman and Shell should take note bro !
Confirmation : Blackstone does a better job than our current in-house lab at accuracy ! The fact that Ryan reran and went out on his own to procure off the shelf oils is a testament to customer service we are trying to provide.
millerl if you had problems with Bklabs you did not try hard enough to research the issue in my limited estimation. I am a complete pain in the buttocks to my contract labs if they aren't accurate. BKlabs is the least trouble to date for Dyson Analysis.
Of course I am always looking for that better bang for the buck !!
What seems wierd to me is that if this report is accurate, Pennzoil is using this new additive package (similar to the Clean 5000) in their High Mileage oils and the same ol additive package we've seen routinely (well, slightly less ZDDP and mega moly) in their regular GF-4 product. Perhaps this new low ZDDP/Calsium type package with antimony is superior and that's why it's being offered in the High Mileage product
On Pennzoils website, they still list their High Mileage oil as GF-3; perhaps this is their new GF-4 version.
On Pennzoils website, they still list their High Mileage oil as GF-3; perhaps this is their new GF-4 version.
Nothing yet on my end. Just waiting on Johnny to get back with us when he has the results in hand.
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