I would still like for you to send the remaining oil to the tech department address that I sent you. They asked me yesterday where it was. They do want to test it. And my offer for your trouble still goes.
Pennzoil High Mileage 5w-30 SL
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Johnny, will send that out tomorrow as well!
Please excuse my tardiness....this morning the oil went back to Johnny and a second sample went to Blackstone.
ToyotaNSaturn, thanks for your efforts and for keeping us informed of your progress.
Assuming that this was just a bad batch of oil, how often can something like this happen? If it happens occasionally to various brands of oil some people are going to have destroyed engines. May be another reason to use Mobil 1. Unless you send in a sample of oil every time you change oil how do you know the oil is properly formulated? Low levels of additives may occasionally occur, even if not as bad as this sample. And other motor oil companies may have lower standards of quality control then Pennzoil. If the additives were somewhat low but not so bad as to destroy the engine immediately, you could wind up with a sludged up engine. Maybe another good reason to use Auto-RX. And maybe a good reason to use an oil supplement like Vavolines oil supplement or Schaeffer's oil supplement.
I have heard of this before. There were problems with 10W-40 oils many years ago. And I have heard of one brand of oil causing problems several years ago. I have also heard of a study that was done many years ago where several brands of motor oil were randomly sampled and several of the motor oils had low additive content. I thought these sorts of problems had been completely cleared up. Maybe random government sampling needs to be done again.
I have heard of this before. There were problems with 10W-40 oils many years ago. And I have heard of one brand of oil causing problems several years ago. I have also heard of a study that was done many years ago where several brands of motor oil were randomly sampled and several of the motor oils had low additive content. I thought these sorts of problems had been completely cleared up. Maybe random government sampling needs to be done again.
After my experiences with lab analyses over the last two weeks, I'll make this early prediction:
The only reason the Pennzoil looks weak in this post is because of lab error at Blackstone. I predict there is nothing wrong with the oil, and when properly analyzed by another (adjectives avoided....self control
) laboratory the additive levels will be exactly what you would expect for this oil. Pennzoil will be vindicated in the end...
You will note, this is not because I am either a Pennzoil fan or hater. Rather, this is strictly due to my personal experiences with the lab in question that produced the above analysis.
The only reason the Pennzoil looks weak in this post is because of lab error at Blackstone. I predict there is nothing wrong with the oil, and when properly analyzed by another (adjectives avoided....self control
You will note, this is not because I am either a Pennzoil fan or hater. Rather, this is strictly due to my personal experiences with the lab in question that produced the above analysis.
Mystic, Early batches of Mobil 1 SuperSyn without molybdenum was pretty lousy stuff. I'm not sure if this was a blending error or a "trial ballon" formulation.
Really tore up the bearings on Bob's Timken demonstrator.
millerl, I sorta hope you're right.
I have a quart of this stuff in 10W-30 waiting to go into our new snowblower. I think I'll mix it with some other oil just to make sure it has a decent additive pack ... maybe even add some Schaeffer 132 to the mix.
--- Bror Jace
Really tore up the bearings on Bob's Timken demonstrator.
millerl, I sorta hope you're right.
I have a quart of this stuff in 10W-30 waiting to go into our new snowblower. I think I'll mix it with some other oil just to make sure it has a decent additive pack ... maybe even add some Schaeffer 132 to the mix.
--- Bror Jace
Bror Jace, if that was not a lab error, we are all in trouble. If Pennzoil can sometimes have a very bad batch of motor oil, think about some of these other companies. There seems to be some agreement here that one brand is pretty low in additive content anyway.
I think I will add either a little Valvoline MaxLife oil supplement or else Schaeffer's #132 oil supplement (just a few oz.) every time I change oil. And Auto-RX (or else Neutra) sounds pretty good to keep the engine clean. With my kind of luck, if 1% of motor oil sold is not formulated right and has low additive content, I will be the guy that gets the lousy oil.
I think I will add either a little Valvoline MaxLife oil supplement or else Schaeffer's #132 oil supplement (just a few oz.) every time I change oil. And Auto-RX (or else Neutra) sounds pretty good to keep the engine clean. With my kind of luck, if 1% of motor oil sold is not formulated right and has low additive content, I will be the guy that gets the lousy oil.
Hmmm...I wonder if one of my vehicles weren't a victim of the early batches of Mobil 1 SuperSyn without molybdenum.quote:
Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Mystic, Early batches of Mobil 1 SuperSyn without molybdenum was pretty lousy stuff. I'm not sure if this was a blending error or a "trial ballon" formulation.
Really tore up the bearings on Bob's Timken demonstrator.
All of these Blackstone comments makes one wonder. About a month ago, "Old Guy" got an unusual VOA from Blackstone on John Deere Plus 0w40. The oil had a high TBN, yet the add pack tested low, like for a gasoline oil.
I send in lots of soil nutrient samples for tests and I know that labs can have equipment and/or personnel go bad. Thats why long term trending is so important.
I send in lots of soil nutrient samples for tests and I know that labs can have equipment and/or personnel go bad. Thats why long term trending is so important.
The results are in...weak add pack on this batch.
Blackstone re-ran this second sample I sent them from the same jug from which the first sample was taken. They also mentioned that this oil was well-below in the add pack compared to all other oils run on that same testing equipment today. Ryan also said that he was going to purchase a bottle of this exact oil and rerun it later this week. I applaud his efforts, he didn't have to do that at all. Stay tuned...
Blackstone re-ran this second sample I sent them from the same jug from which the first sample was taken. They also mentioned that this oil was well-below in the add pack compared to all other oils run on that same testing equipment today. Ryan also said that he was going to purchase a bottle of this exact oil and rerun it later this week. I applaud his efforts, he didn't have to do that at all. Stay tuned...
427Z06, the evidence of those early batches of "bad" M1 Supersyn is somewhere on this site ... but they were some of the earliest posts ... probably from 2002.
There was some UOA/VOA testing done which showed low ZDDP levels (which were to be expected) and ZERO (0) molybdenum. It was not merely poor Timken performance or some other "guess" as to the oil's composition.
--- Bror Jace
There was some UOA/VOA testing done which showed low ZDDP levels (which were to be expected) and ZERO (0) molybdenum. It was not merely poor Timken performance or some other "guess" as to the oil's composition.
--- Bror Jace
Thanks Bror. I did buy some of the first jugs of M1 5w30 SuperSyn that showed up in my geographical location and used it to replace the factory fill on a new Honda V6. Wish I would of done a VOA or UOA at the time.
I would dump it to be on the safe side. But if you decide to keep it in your engine, your next UOA will be very interestingquote:
Originally posted by G-Man II:
Geez, I hope the 10w30 HM I just put in my Chrysler doesn't have this problem.
[ February 17, 2005, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Cutehumor ]
I have three quarts of 10w-40 HM leftover from a five quart jug that I bought last october. I wonder if I should get it tested. Has Johnny said anything about the second results? what is pennzoil stance on this?
[ February 17, 2005, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Cutehumor ]
[ February 17, 2005, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Cutehumor ]
Right now, we're just waiting for PZ to test their batch. It may be a few more days though as a rep at Shell is not in the office this week...
MolaKule
Staff member
How's the engine performance, sounding so far?
This is REAL BAD....
Not good QC... If this happened to HM, what QC would there be on their lowest rung oil??
It's going to be real interesting to see what Pennzoil says about this. And it hopefully will be **soon**.
I just "helped" 2 of my family members change over from Valvoine to Pennzoil their last OCI..
I hope I did not make a mistake..
(I have almost 100 quarts of Pennzoil in my garage that I bought at a cheap price (69 cents a quart)
I guess you get what you pay for??
But on the other hand, i'd throw away $70 bucks worth of oil before I'd risk any damage to my engines any futher...
Overreaction... Most likely. But who can afford a VOA before every use?
My next oil change in my Truck will be Mobil 7500 drive clean until I decide and *see* what Pennzoil says/does.
Bill
PS: Sorry Johnny, I'm really interested to see what Pennzoil does and how they are going to "ease" others minds....
You didn't. My gut feeling is that it's just a single batch that's in question. Ryan is going to re-run another VOA, I'm sure it will show higher numbers.
I wonder how often this REALLY happens to ALL who sell oil???
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