PCV Catch Can

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Okay, y'all are going to make me type it.
When I bought my F150 brand new with 6 miles on it, after about 1400 miles the engine started detonating so bad it sounded like a pack of wood peckers on street lights!
I took it into Gator Ford in Seffner, FL. and the tech assigned the job found BOOKOO amounts of oil in my intakes (yes, plural; upper and lower), IAC, TB, valves, and piston tops (after using a Bore Scope down the lower plenum-spark plug holes). They had to pull the WHOLE top end of my engine, including the heads. There was so much oil and carbonized oil on the piston tops, they had to call in an engineer from FoMoCo. In the meantime, I was provided a rental LARIAT F150, FREE of charge of course.
Anyway, the engineer found out why there was BOOKOO amounts of oil being sucked into my my engine, in turn causing the harmony of detonating wood peckers. My engine became famous! That engineer had to redesign something in the pcv system to not allow oil to be sucked into the 4.2 V6 ever again.
After a thorough cleaning with BG products, they reassembled my engine and it was as good, or better, than new. I am thinking that the engineer could have gone the route of installing some sort of catch can, then if so, the owner would have to monitor it. Ford couldn't have that. So, they redesigned the pcv system.
WHEW! Too much typing!
grin.gif
 
That's really something.

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Okay, y'all are going to make me type it.
When I bought my F150 brand new with 6 miles on it, after about 1400 miles the engine started detonating so bad it sounded like a pack of wood peckers on street lights!
I took it into Gator Ford in Seffner, FL. and the tech assigned the job found BOOKOO amounts of oil in my intakes (yes, plural; upper and lower), IAC, TB, valves, and piston tops (after using a Bore Scope down the lower plenum-spark plug holes). They had to pull the WHOLE top end of my engine, including the heads. There was so much oil and carbonized oil on the piston tops, they had to call in an engineer from FoMoCo. In the meantime, I was provided a rental LARIAT F150, FREE of charge of course.
Anyway, the engineer found out why there was BOOKOO amounts of oil being sucked into my my engine, in turn causing the harmony of detonating wood peckers. My engine became famous! That engineer had to redesign something in the pcv system to not allow oil to be sucked into the 4.2 V6 ever again.
After a thorough cleaning with BG products, they reassembled my engine and it was as good, or better, than new. I am thinking that the engineer could have gone the route of installing some sort of catch can, then if so, the owner would have to monitor it. Ford couldn't have that. So, they redesigned the pcv system.
WHEW! Too much typing!
grin.gif
 
Does anyone else on this site use a catch can? If so, what's your experience with them?
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I know that I've seen something on basically a UOA of catch can contents...will go looking.

That should be interesting. Shouldn't have any "wear metal" since it's all condensed vapor, but would expect high water and fuel content.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Does anyone else on this site use a catch can? If so, what's your experience with them?


I did collect about 3 ounces of oil every 3K miles or so out of the Moroso on my Z28's LS1.
The post throttle body intake manifold did appear to be much drier than before installation, so it did do something, as much as SteveSRT8 on here wants to deny that fact.

I also collect about 2 tablespoonfuls of oil every 1500 miles out of my Damon can on the current car, which even though it is a small amount, and certainly some is getting past/through the can, I am grateful for being able to prevent ANY amount of oil at all from entering the intake tract on a setup such as an EcoBoost for the various reasons given in my above posts.

It DOES become critical when Ford themselves do not offer a walnut shell blasting of the intake valves even for a charge, let alone under warranty, and one must go to the expensive aftermarket when this is needed.
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I also collect about 2 tablespoonfuls of oil every 1500 miles out of my Damon can on the current car, which even though it is a small amount, and certainly some is getting past/through the can, I am grateful for being able to prevent ANY amount of oil at all from entering the intake tract on a setup such as an EcoBoost for the various reasons given in my above posts.


I agree ... even keeping an ounce per 1000~1500 miles out of the intake manifold is worth it to me. Catch cans are even more useful on the track, as most engines will tend to vent more oil vapors through the PCV system when under sustained high RPM use.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I also collect about 2 tablespoonfuls of oil every 1500 miles out of my Damon can on the current car, which even though it is a small amount, and certainly some is getting past/through the can, I am grateful for being able to prevent ANY amount of oil at all from entering the intake tract on a setup such as an EcoBoost for the various reasons given in my above posts.


I agree ... even keeping an ounce per 1000~1500 miles out of the intake manifold is worth it to me. Catch cans are even more useful on the track, as most engines will tend to vent more oil vapors through the PCV system when under sustained high RPM use.

^^^THIS!^^^
Look what the blow-by oil did to my stock engine due to a failure in the pcv system! I "think" that the engineer did something to the pcv valve itself. I couldn't get ANY information from the dealer, but that the engineer had to redesign something. Do you think that they would have ACTUALLY told me the truth? Um.....NO!
But, if just a teaspoon of oil were to get into the intake per every 500 miles, add it up.........you will eventually have to do to your engine what was done to mine; pull it apart and SCRUB & SCRAPE!
Has anyone ever seen a catch can, minus a drain, or even a plug at the bottom, with an open drain line run just below the frame to "open drain" the caught oil?
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Has anyone ever seen a catch can, minus a drain, or even a plug at the bottom, with an open drain line run just below the frame to "open drain" the caught oil?


Yes, some catch cans have a twist valve (like used on a radiator) and a hose to drain it. But usually access isn't good and it's useless. On the catch can I have, the bottom 2/3s of the can unscrews and it can be pulled out of the engine compartment without spilling any oil. Pretty easy to drain.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Has anyone ever seen a catch can, minus a drain, or even a plug at the bottom, with an open drain line run just below the frame to "open drain" the caught oil?


Yes, some catch cans have a twist valve (like used on a radiator) and a hose to drain it. But usually access isn't good and it's useless. On the catch can I have, the bottom 2/3s of the can unscrews and it can be pulled out of the engine compartment without spilling any oil. Pretty easy to drain.

Yes, I have used this type.
I'm referring to someone screwing a barbed fitting into the bottom of the catch can, and attaching a hose directly to that to let it drain without any type of valve.
 
You could drill and tap the can, and fit a fumoto drain valve but I've never actually seen this done. Most periodically empty their cans or VTA
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I'm referring to someone screwing a barbed fitting into the bottom of the catch can, and attaching a hose directly to that to let it drain without any type of valve.


You mean let the oil just drain out onto the ground while you're driving? Doubt the EPA would like that kind of system.
eek.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
In this link

http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=93762

They talk about a "Jazz" brand catch can which has a drain, but also a valve. No valve would cause a huge vac leak!


Have heard about a "draft tube" into the exhaust. I suppose that's before cats were general, although in theory a cat might be capable of cleaning it up.
 
Draft tube was onto the ground...follow an old bus and you might see one.

(Or my 1973 Torana when I fitted one after the triple S.U. Carbs went on)
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Draft tube was onto the ground...follow an old bus and you might see one.

(Or my 1973 Torana when I fitted one after the triple S.U. Carbs went on)


OK then, have heard about a tube into the exhaust (that wasnt called a draft tube), but generated a negative pressure due to a venturi effect of the exhaust gases passing over it,(the flow of exhaust gases wasn't called a draft) which in turn promoted a flow of crankcase gases, (which wasn't called a draft), into the exhaust.

Perhaps we could call it an exhaust-not-draft-tube?
 
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Draft tube was onto the ground...follow an old bus and you might see one.

(Or my 1973 Torana when I fitted one after the triple S.U. Carbs went on)

OK then, have heard about a tube into the exhaust (that wasnt called a draft tube), but generated a negative pressure due to a venturi effect of the exhaust gases passing over it,(the flow of exhaust gases wasn't called a draft) which in turn promoted a flow of crankcase gases, (which wasn't called a draft), into the exhaust.

Perhaps we could call it an exhaust-not-draft-tube?


You're talking about what a lot of drag racers use ... a venturi vacuum effect to suck the gasses out of the crankcase. Some guys will use a small vacuum pump to evacuate the crankcase.

A friend with a 1300cc 4-cyl 'Busa (motorcycle) used the reed valves on the exhaust ports and hooked up a hose to suck the crankcase down to about 1/2 an ATM, and with it in use he got around another 5~6 HP on the dyno (ie, much less internal pumping losses).

Someone else posted this awhile back ... forgot who, so credits to them.

 
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Draft tube was onto the ground...follow an old bus and you might see one.

(Or my 1973 Torana when I fitted one after the triple S.U. Carbs went on)


OK then, have heard about a tube into the exhaust (that wasnt called a draft tube), but generated a negative pressure due to a venturi effect of the exhaust gases passing over it,(the flow of exhaust gases wasn't called a draft) which in turn promoted a flow of crankcase gases, (which wasn't called a draft), into the exhaust.

Perhaps we could call it an exhaust-not-draft-tube?


Some lower classed gas dragsters (Pro Comp class?
21.gif
) with carbs use a system like this, from valve cover vents piped directly into their upswept, open headers.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr-Gasket/720/6002/10002/-1

Edit; yes Zee0Six beat me to it while I was looking for the link to the actual product.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
No valve would cause a huge vac leak!


^^^THIS!!, as well as a check engine dash light/DTC.

Especially on a modern engine setup!
 
I have been running a catch can on my 2011 kia Optima since 2012. It has the 2.4 GDI engine. I change the oil every 10000 km and empty the can every 5000 km in the winter and 10000 km in the summer.
 
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