Outrageous Dealer Add-Ons and Fees - When Will They Learn?
- Thread starter john_pifer
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Haven't bought a new car in a decade but was successful in getting them removed. Maybe back then. BMW had Training and MACO that they conveniently forgot to add so they wanted to add after the fact (googled it and they're real fees). I refused to pay them and said cancel the order give the allocation to someone else. I was that angry. They then said I don't need to pay the fees.
My wife's GM was nothing added, that was 2011.
My dad bought a GM in 2018--he had all the pre-added dealer stuff changed to $0--all that BS paint protection, window etch, blah blah blah. He took it to another level. Said he's not paying the dealer registration fees, he'll take the MSO to DMV himself (Dad, this isn't 1985 anymore hahahahaha). So, they even waived the reggie fees. Why? Because if my dad DIY'd, he could actually never come back and not take the vehicle. And we all know, a sale is not made until the money is in the bank.
I have no idea what I will face when we go to buy the Tahoe. I have a feeling we will in fact face a lot of BS. There usually are 0-3 on the lot, so it isn't as if there's a lot of supply it would seem. I do not think ordering a GM is the same as ordering a BMW from Germany, dunno. But since it's so much money I plan on getting the vehicle configured exactly as desired and waiting for it, which also reduces buying power.
My wife's GM was nothing added, that was 2011.
My dad bought a GM in 2018--he had all the pre-added dealer stuff changed to $0--all that BS paint protection, window etch, blah blah blah. He took it to another level. Said he's not paying the dealer registration fees, he'll take the MSO to DMV himself (Dad, this isn't 1985 anymore hahahahaha). So, they even waived the reggie fees. Why? Because if my dad DIY'd, he could actually never come back and not take the vehicle. And we all know, a sale is not made until the money is in the bank.
I have no idea what I will face when we go to buy the Tahoe. I have a feeling we will in fact face a lot of BS. There usually are 0-3 on the lot, so it isn't as if there's a lot of supply it would seem. I do not think ordering a GM is the same as ordering a BMW from Germany, dunno. But since it's so much money I plan on getting the vehicle configured exactly as desired and waiting for it, which also reduces buying power.
When will they realize? When customers stop buying from these dealers. When is that? Probably never. There's always a customer that doesn't do research first.
It is scary how clueless people are. They worry more about the monthly payment or if the dealer can get them out of there current lease or loan instead of what they're actually paying for the vehicle.
Well for a lot of people it's a new and exciting purchase. So they don't really pay attention. Personally the first time I bought a new car I got absolutely raked over the coals by things like this. I was young and naive and no one taught me to look out for this. The last car I bought (The CX-50 in my sig) I paid way more attention and went with the dealer that played fair with me.
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My dad could amortize a loan with a pencil and paper.
Admittedly I can’t. I can use a calculator but better yet a spreadsheet.
Today, many don’t even understand how amortization works. And even finance managers can’t do it without the internet. The idea is to work backwards to the answer (monthly payment). Sorta like our Chem labs in college.
The mentality today is focused around leisure. It’s a bragging right to do less work and shop at Costco on the employer’s dime
Flat rate freight/destination charges need to go IMO
This. Gulf States Toyota distributors is the reason I have never bought a Toyota.
Dealership just wants to make as much money as possible - nothing wrong with that. They're getting more creative since margins are getting slimmer (on the cars themselves).
Benchmark them against their competition. Buy from the one that makes the most sense.
There's no reason for either side to not look out for their own interests; both sides need to put in the work to arrive at the outcome that makes the most sense for themselves.
GON
$100 Site Donor 2024
More often than not, businesses ability to charge unwarranted fees is due to lack of competition and barriers to entry.
Over the past two decades, the amount of new car dealerships have reduced in numbers, while the American population has increased. In addition, many of the remaining new car dealerships, especially in urban and suburban areas, are owned by a major auto group, reducung actual competition even more.
Americans simply have less available options on where to buy a new car then they did just two decades ago. The dealer tricky charge game appears to have no end in sight. The only way to change it is to have more new car dealerships, which appears less likely because of barriers to enter the new car dealership market
Over the past two decades, the amount of new car dealerships have reduced in numbers, while the American population has increased. In addition, many of the remaining new car dealerships, especially in urban and suburban areas, are owned by a major auto group, reducung actual competition even more.
Americans simply have less available options on where to buy a new car then they did just two decades ago. The dealer tricky charge game appears to have no end in sight. The only way to change it is to have more new car dealerships, which appears less likely because of barriers to enter the new car dealership market
True, but on a personal level the ability to search nationwide and shop online has actually increased the ease of finding a good deal. The number of dealerships within reach of any one individual has dramatically increased. The issue is that most people are not willing to travel very far to get it.
Unlike you I'll take the Sienna 10 times out of 10. Rented one for a week in California last year, it returns 36mpg under real world driving conditions, whether it's LA traffic, 75 mph on the freeway, or going up and down the coastal mountains.
Plus the Sienna has more front seat room for tall drivers which I will also take 10 times out of 10 being as I am 6'7". Hondas are ok for tall drivers at best, I have driven them when I had to.
Agree on most points. The option we have is to drive to another city where the dealers don't have these add ons, as the OP noted. Galvestion is reachable in 3.5 hours for me, but unfortunately it's unlikely I'd buy a Honda over a Toyota as they just don't value putting front seat space in for big Bubba Americans.
At 6’2”, it’s not as much of a concern for me.
Im just not gonna do a hybrid/CVT.
Although I’m well-aware that Honda is not the same company today - nowhere close - that it was when it built the 1990 Accord I had.
Those were some of the longest-running and most well-built cars of their era!
Of course, vehicles are much more complex now. And we know that when complexity increases, reliability suffers.
Im just not gonna do a hybrid/CVT.
Although I’m well-aware that Honda is not the same company today - nowhere close - that it was when it built the 1990 Accord I had.
Those were some of the longest-running and most well-built cars of their era!
Of course, vehicles are much more complex now. And we know that when complexity increases, reliability suffers.
Except for EV's I don't know if non EV margins were getting slimmer. I need more proof.
Last 2 cars I bought new in 2022, Toyota's, near the height of the "covid shortage", paid under MSRP. Had to drive 250 miles to get the price I could tolerate. Local dealers, forget about it. Don't be starstruck by big numbers. If a loaf of bread was $100 at the nearest store, but $2 across town, you'd drive across town. Now think about saving $1000, how far would you go? $45,000 locally, $44,000 at an out of town dealer. Would you drive an hour to save $1000? Consider the differential savings. What is your time worth and the travel costs and go from there. I for sure would never look at any car with $3000 of stuff I don't want added on. I won't knock people that do, we are wired differently is all.
JHZR2
Staff member
Friends’ Sienna bought at the same time sure did/does have issues. We have had none on our Odyssey. So the success and reliability folks have seems almost to be luck of the draw. Buying a Sienna isn’t a guarantee of anything. And the ergonomics and design is worse imo.
If it’s the same as my MILs v6 highlander, it’s a dud. She has a 4cyl and 6cyl highlander, the 4cyl
Is fwd, the 6cyl is awd. And man oh man is the 6cyl one a dud. It’s not preferred by any of us. I was frankly surprised. Thought it would have been a smooth rocket.
I doubt reliability will be an issue. Just don’t let your kids be slobs (spills, junk in switches, etc) or manhandle the sliding doors when theyre frozen (universal consideration, not just the odyssey), and drive it respectfully, and it will be fine
Maintenance? Meh. We change the oil every 5k per the service minder. The fact that I do a timing belt and actually reset everything properly to spec, versus living with stretch/wear seems like a decent idea. Over 100k it amortizes to almost nothing. Especially if you DIY.
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I would have far more confidence in the hybrid/CVT powertrain than the Honda setup. Not even a close comparison. It’s also not a real CVT - look up the details on how it works.
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I drove 3.5 hours from Phila to Westchester NY, to get a then 10 yo used car that cost $14k. The reason was the car was from FLA. Since I still have the car today, 7.5 years later, I think it was worth it. The driver door actuator was broken, and the front brakes pulsated. Dealer agreed to fix those and that meant 2 more trips. One time, it was 5 hours one way due to traffic. Still worth it.
I have friends and family who play the I make $xxx/hour I ain’t got time fo dat.
I always did wonder how that comes into play. One year I discovered we were charged 1 day PTO when we didn’t take any. All of us at work. I was super mad already. If I thought about my daily rate I’d have jumped out my 9th floor window
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Yes, I don't think anyone in this thread has said that Toyota, or any other manufacturer, hasn't had any issues at all whatsoever. But, if you could find some data/stats on reported issues on 2018+ Odysseys vs. 2020+ Sienna Hybrids, we are probably going to see a trend where the Odyssey issues are going to be more. The other thing as well is the Odyssey still using a timing belt that needs to be replaced every ~100k or so, as an additional data point against the Odyssey.
What year/trim is your friends Sienna hybrid?
The only thing we found worse on the Sienna vs. the Odyssey was the center console area of the Sienna. We didn't like how raised it was. We like the open area of the Odyssey in there. But that's more aesthetics than a problem or issue. Everything else, sans the "magic seat" of the Odyssey, we loved on the Sienna.
