Opinions on manufactured homes
- Thread starter ram_man
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Originally Posted by A_Spruce
This is a point that many of us have made, a trailer can be just fine for short term use on the way to something else. It shouldn't be considered a "forever" home for all the reasons that have also been listed, unless if's for the MIL.
Ram man, I think A_Spruce made it clear that it's simply semantics. He refers to anything with a steel chassis as a trailer. He knows about the distinction of "manufactured" homes vs. house trailers of yesteryear.
For old people like me, " short term use on the way to something else" and "forever home" would mean until I met the grave, which might be a viable solution vs. other housing. Ram man, I would just take the chunks of good advice here and check in to the investment/value arguments. Also check carefully the HVAC components, water heater, etc., to make sure replacement does not require special, over-priced fixtures. The decision also depends on the asking price, tax rates, insurance rates, etc..
This is a point that many of us have made, a trailer can be just fine for short term use on the way to something else. It shouldn't be considered a "forever" home for all the reasons that have also been listed, unless if's for the MIL.
Ram man, I think A_Spruce made it clear that it's simply semantics. He refers to anything with a steel chassis as a trailer. He knows about the distinction of "manufactured" homes vs. house trailers of yesteryear.
For old people like me, " short term use on the way to something else" and "forever home" would mean until I met the grave, which might be a viable solution vs. other housing. Ram man, I would just take the chunks of good advice here and check in to the investment/value arguments. Also check carefully the HVAC components, water heater, etc., to make sure replacement does not require special, over-priced fixtures. The decision also depends on the asking price, tax rates, insurance rates, etc..
Well I know having spoke with our lender we could buy it FHA or USDA or conventional. He said that this type of manufactured home on a permanent concrete foundation is no big deal to get a loan on. He said it was much closer to a typical modular home than a mobile home.
Originally Posted by ram_man
Our realtor today said it would not depreciate in value as long as it was kept up.
No offense, but do you think the realtor would tell you the opposite ? Are there any of these homes in your area that you're aware of ? If so, look them up in the county real estate/auditor records. Find some that are for sale and see what they cost "new".
Our realtor today said it would not depreciate in value as long as it was kept up.
No offense, but do you think the realtor would tell you the opposite ? Are there any of these homes in your area that you're aware of ? If so, look them up in the county real estate/auditor records. Find some that are for sale and see what they cost "new".
Originally Posted by ram_man
Also apparently modular homes can be on frame or off frame..on frame is still utilizing the steel chassis. It's all very confusing. ...‚
As I said, it's all semantics, and it's all done with the express purpose of being confusing so that the buyer jumps in over their head before it's too late to back out.
A house built to completion IN A FACTORY, that is then bolted to a trailer frame and drug to the site as a whole, is a trailer, mobile home, manufactured home, call it what you will. I use the term trailer so as not to confuse this type of structure with other forms of factory construction that are NOT trailer in origin or manufacture.
A home that is made in pieces (floor sections, wall sections, possibly room sections) and shipped in pieces to the site and erected on site is a modular home. Can it have steel framework supporting it, absolutely, so can a conventionally stick built home. The presence of a concrete foundation or steel supports under the structure means nothing, it is how and where it is constructed and the manner the whole lot was hauled to the site. I hope this clarifies the information offered.
I also noted that regional circumstances vary. Trailers are not very plentiful in the wild where I am, so everything I said about hard to find a lender, hard to finance, hard to insure is absolutely true. I made the comment earlier about living in Trailerville USA, meaning, if you live in an area that has ample trailers on private property (not in a trailer park), then maybe finding a lender, financing, insurance isn't such a big deal. It is up to you to do your own due diligence to figure out if anything discussed here is relevant to your situation.
As I recommended in my last post, I highly urge you to find your own lender, title company, and insurance agents and get quotes from them on both a trailer and on conventional housing. They will not only tell you what you're in for should you buy this property, but also what to expect in the way of appreciation or depreciation when comparing the two.
Also apparently modular homes can be on frame or off frame..on frame is still utilizing the steel chassis. It's all very confusing. ...‚
As I said, it's all semantics, and it's all done with the express purpose of being confusing so that the buyer jumps in over their head before it's too late to back out.
A house built to completion IN A FACTORY, that is then bolted to a trailer frame and drug to the site as a whole, is a trailer, mobile home, manufactured home, call it what you will. I use the term trailer so as not to confuse this type of structure with other forms of factory construction that are NOT trailer in origin or manufacture.
A home that is made in pieces (floor sections, wall sections, possibly room sections) and shipped in pieces to the site and erected on site is a modular home. Can it have steel framework supporting it, absolutely, so can a conventionally stick built home. The presence of a concrete foundation or steel supports under the structure means nothing, it is how and where it is constructed and the manner the whole lot was hauled to the site. I hope this clarifies the information offered.
I also noted that regional circumstances vary. Trailers are not very plentiful in the wild where I am, so everything I said about hard to find a lender, hard to finance, hard to insure is absolutely true. I made the comment earlier about living in Trailerville USA, meaning, if you live in an area that has ample trailers on private property (not in a trailer park), then maybe finding a lender, financing, insurance isn't such a big deal. It is up to you to do your own due diligence to figure out if anything discussed here is relevant to your situation.
As I recommended in my last post, I highly urge you to find your own lender, title company, and insurance agents and get quotes from them on both a trailer and on conventional housing. They will not only tell you what you're in for should you buy this property, but also what to expect in the way of appreciation or depreciation when comparing the two.
Originally Posted by ram_man
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/07/full-55303-34630-screenshot_20190720_151521.jpg "[Linked Image]")
From the outside it looks like a garden variety double wide, sufficiently permanently affixed to the land to qualify as an improvement to real property for both taxation and lending purposes.
You've really only given enough information to bring out people's bias and prejudices about these things - whether it is a good deal or not depends on the intersection of your needs, the price, and the place it is located, which no one here can really speak to.
My personal opinion of the one you show is influenced by a couple of things - it is probably in the middle of nowhere where really nothing is worth very much, regardless of how it was built. Second, that huge vent - looks like some form of wood heat - nasty stuff in my opinion; it may, or likely does, have inadequate HVAC for the cold snaps around here.
I got mine from a mobile home dealer that used it as their show home / sales office, 28 x 64, for $13K including a covered front porch, wrap around deck, they had built to cover the under home bits that keep it transportable and make it look like a traditional home. A guy that owed me money moved it for me, in exchange for cancellation of his debt, so I have not more than $10 sq ft in mine. You can get into these really cheap - this is why you see so many of them as secondary or tertiary homes for folks.
There has never been a shortage of people wanting to rent it or buy the one I have, so living in one must not be that bad.
From the outside it looks like a garden variety double wide, sufficiently permanently affixed to the land to qualify as an improvement to real property for both taxation and lending purposes.
You've really only given enough information to bring out people's bias and prejudices about these things - whether it is a good deal or not depends on the intersection of your needs, the price, and the place it is located, which no one here can really speak to.
My personal opinion of the one you show is influenced by a couple of things - it is probably in the middle of nowhere where really nothing is worth very much, regardless of how it was built. Second, that huge vent - looks like some form of wood heat - nasty stuff in my opinion; it may, or likely does, have inadequate HVAC for the cold snaps around here.
I got mine from a mobile home dealer that used it as their show home / sales office, 28 x 64, for $13K including a covered front porch, wrap around deck, they had built to cover the under home bits that keep it transportable and make it look like a traditional home. A guy that owed me money moved it for me, in exchange for cancellation of his debt, so I have not more than $10 sq ft in mine. You can get into these really cheap - this is why you see so many of them as secondary or tertiary homes for folks.
There has never been a shortage of people wanting to rent it or buy the one I have, so living in one must not be that bad.
To give some info it'll have a brand new roof. It's in a decent area about 5 minutes from town. So it's out of City limits but not far. It's quiet on 2.25 acres. To me it's the perfect balance of freedom of being out of town and close enough that it's not a major pain to get to the store at a moment's notice. Your about 7 minutes from a save a lot and a country Mart. Still get high speed spectrum internet. The fire place is propane as well. They're asking $76,000. It's a 2 full bath 3 bedroom 1404 square foot home.
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Well if you can afford to take alittle hit when you sell it someday and the inspection of all systems check out it's something to consider .
How much does a acre go for in the area ! A well and septic will be in 25 k ballpark . Add them up and your not paying alot for the structure . Maybe someday you can tear it down and build a small house .
How much does a acre go for in the area ! A well and septic will be in 25 k ballpark . Add them up and your not paying alot for the structure . Maybe someday you can tear it down and build a small house .
Originally Posted by ram_man
.......They're asking $76,000. It's a 2 full bath 3 bedroom 1404 square foot home.
What if the home were stick built and more conventional. What effect would it have on that pricing on the same lot?
.......They're asking $76,000. It's a 2 full bath 3 bedroom 1404 square foot home.
What if the home were stick built and more conventional. What effect would it have on that pricing on the same lot?
Originally Posted by ram_man
Guess it depends a house equal in size in decent shape probably 10k more . I'm just basing that off what I've seen so far .
If only $10k to get a conventional home then its a terrible investment I'd even say that if conventional home was $30k more. Unfortunately this has a stigma deserved or not and when it comes to sale time you will lose out.
Guess it depends a house equal in size in decent shape probably 10k more . I'm just basing that off what I've seen so far .
If only $10k to get a conventional home then its a terrible investment I'd even say that if conventional home was $30k more. Unfortunately this has a stigma deserved or not and when it comes to sale time you will lose out.
Originally Posted by ram_man
To give some info it'll have a brand new roof. It's in a decent area about 5 minutes from town. So it's out of City limits but not far. It's quiet on 2.25 acres. To me it's the perfect balance of freedom of being out of town and close enough that it's not a major pain to get to the store at a moment's notice. Your about 7 minutes from a save a lot and a country Mart. Still get high speed spectrum internet. The fire place is propane as well. They're asking $76,000. It's a 2 full bath 3 bedroom 1404 square foot home.
Well, it goes without saying it is out of city limits - most municipalities zone double wides out, and will only allow single wides in very limited places.
You really need to be, or become, informed on land values and construction costs in your area.
Does the lot have municipal water and sewer, or one or the other, or neither?
If it has municipal water, but you need septic - tolerable, if the lot has other redeeming characteristics, but clearly not as valuable as lots / property that have both.
If it has a well and septic - least valuable and desirable lots / land of all, except ...
sometimes a good piece of property right out of town can become much more valuable if the town or city grows into it, and extends services to the property. I've seen $60K lots become $600K lots in a decade, because they were in the right place.
If your 2.25 acre lot is worth $5000 ( wild guess ), or you can get an estimate of value on the lot, then you can do the arithmetic on what the double wide is costing you vis-a-vis other types of construction. It may or may not be a good price versus other conventional stuff in your area.
Realtors are supposed to help you with these types of things, if you cannot perform your own evaluation.
To give some info it'll have a brand new roof. It's in a decent area about 5 minutes from town. So it's out of City limits but not far. It's quiet on 2.25 acres. To me it's the perfect balance of freedom of being out of town and close enough that it's not a major pain to get to the store at a moment's notice. Your about 7 minutes from a save a lot and a country Mart. Still get high speed spectrum internet. The fire place is propane as well. They're asking $76,000. It's a 2 full bath 3 bedroom 1404 square foot home.
Well, it goes without saying it is out of city limits - most municipalities zone double wides out, and will only allow single wides in very limited places.
You really need to be, or become, informed on land values and construction costs in your area.
Does the lot have municipal water and sewer, or one or the other, or neither?
If it has municipal water, but you need septic - tolerable, if the lot has other redeeming characteristics, but clearly not as valuable as lots / property that have both.
If it has a well and septic - least valuable and desirable lots / land of all, except ...
sometimes a good piece of property right out of town can become much more valuable if the town or city grows into it, and extends services to the property. I've seen $60K lots become $600K lots in a decade, because they were in the right place.
If your 2.25 acre lot is worth $5000 ( wild guess ), or you can get an estimate of value on the lot, then you can do the arithmetic on what the double wide is costing you vis-a-vis other types of construction. It may or may not be a good price versus other conventional stuff in your area.
Realtors are supposed to help you with these types of things, if you cannot perform your own evaluation.
Originally Posted by Win
You really need to be, or become, informed on land values and construction costs in your area.............
All good points that should be investigated as part of doing one's due diligence in researching the property.
Realtors, like any trade, have their good agents and bad agents, so, just like any other service you would need in life, you need to find someone who knows how to do their job well, knows the locale you're searching in, and keeps YOUR best interests at heart. All too many are happy to misguide you, just to make a sale and get their commission. Dirty little secret, most agents don't know how to do property comparisons. Just like Google, it matters what you put into the search bar.
You mention that the roof will need to be replaced. IIRC, you said it's a 20 year old structure, so needing a new roof sounds about right. Have a home inspection done in addition to a pest report. A home inspection will call attention to things that are out of the ordinary or likely to become problems in the near future. A pest inspection will tell you if there are any active pests or dry rot that needs to be addressed. I would expect to find a lot of failed caulking, probably some moisture bulged siding and trim. Do all the appurtenances (hvac, water heater, propane/wood stove, etc.) have the appropriate trailer certification sticker on them, if not, your insurer isn't going to like that. It's things like this that you need to be wary of before purchase. If you know going in and don't care, that's your business, if there's a problem and you didn't know about it, that is an issue
As mentioned by others, well, septic, municipal connections, etc., and their state of repair also factor into property value. For instance, if the sewer line is collapsed and you have to replace it, you're now sitting on a $100K property that is only worth, maybe, what they're asking for it.
The property itself, are there any land use restrictions, water rights (for or against you), etc. Was there a toxic waste site on or near the property that has affected the water or land? Research at the county records will tell you these things.
Personally, what do you need from the property? Does it fit those needs? Good schools, good neighbors, what-have-you.
You really need to be, or become, informed on land values and construction costs in your area.............
All good points that should be investigated as part of doing one's due diligence in researching the property.
Realtors, like any trade, have their good agents and bad agents, so, just like any other service you would need in life, you need to find someone who knows how to do their job well, knows the locale you're searching in, and keeps YOUR best interests at heart. All too many are happy to misguide you, just to make a sale and get their commission. Dirty little secret, most agents don't know how to do property comparisons. Just like Google, it matters what you put into the search bar.
You mention that the roof will need to be replaced. IIRC, you said it's a 20 year old structure, so needing a new roof sounds about right. Have a home inspection done in addition to a pest report. A home inspection will call attention to things that are out of the ordinary or likely to become problems in the near future. A pest inspection will tell you if there are any active pests or dry rot that needs to be addressed. I would expect to find a lot of failed caulking, probably some moisture bulged siding and trim. Do all the appurtenances (hvac, water heater, propane/wood stove, etc.) have the appropriate trailer certification sticker on them, if not, your insurer isn't going to like that. It's things like this that you need to be wary of before purchase. If you know going in and don't care, that's your business, if there's a problem and you didn't know about it, that is an issue
As mentioned by others, well, septic, municipal connections, etc., and their state of repair also factor into property value. For instance, if the sewer line is collapsed and you have to replace it, you're now sitting on a $100K property that is only worth, maybe, what they're asking for it.
The property itself, are there any land use restrictions, water rights (for or against you), etc. Was there a toxic waste site on or near the property that has affected the water or land? Research at the county records will tell you these things.
Personally, what do you need from the property? Does it fit those needs? Good schools, good neighbors, what-have-you.
Seems like, if you can keep an eye on the market, you can kinda/sorta "know" what houses are going for in your area. At least what is being listed at what price. Zillow does list some prior transaction history, and I think recent sales can show up. You can also check to see if tax records are online; I was surprised but I can get the town appraisal for near any property near me, for at least 4 or 5 towns, that would include the last selling price and current town valuation (which is at least a starting point).
A good home inspection is a must, but it always pays to have half a clue as to what to look for; I recall seeing a book online about home inspections. Google is your friend... My last inspection, the company encouraged questions from me and we chatted about a number of items as we went through the house. I also did a lot of close inspection of my own when we first looked at the house so I had my list of things to be looking at during the inspection.
A good home inspection is a must, but it always pays to have half a clue as to what to look for; I recall seeing a book online about home inspections. Google is your friend... My last inspection, the company encouraged questions from me and we chatted about a number of items as we went through the house. I also did a lot of close inspection of my own when we first looked at the house so I had my list of things to be looking at during the inspection.
Originally Posted by supton
A good home inspection is a must, but it always pays to have half a clue as to what to look for; I recall seeing a book online about home inspections. Google is your friend... My last inspection, the company encouraged questions from me and we chatted about a number of items as we went through the house. I also did a lot of close inspection of my own when we first looked at the house so I had my list of things to be looking at during the inspection.
You raise a good point. Knowing a little about what to look for can help weed out or move a property to the top of the list very quickly. Home inspections are a paid service, so it's not feasible to get one on every property you look at, which is where knowing some of what to look for yourself comes in. I've never had either a pest company or home inspector not be willing to answer questions or watch them do their thing. Additionally, if you can personally go over their findings at the time of the inspection, it will go a very long way to understanding the reports when they are sent to you later. All too often, my clients have no idea what was found in the report or who is responsible to fix it.
On the point of who is responsible, home inspection reports are 100% negotiable between buyer and seller. Pest inspections are another matter. Your choice of financing will play a roll in what repairs are required, some lenders, or forms of lending, require a perfectly clear pest report. A pest report is broken down into two parts, Section 1 and Section 2. Section 1 items are active infestations of pests or rot that pose an imminent threat to the structure. Section 2 items are less critical items, such as a cracked or fogged window, missing window screens, that sort of thing. I highly recommend that you only use a pest company that also does the repair work. Some pest companies only spray chemicals and do inspections, this type of company will not provide a bid sheet for the repairs, which not only tells you how expensive it will be, but also, should you choose to hire your own contractor, they will be able to tell the extent of the work by the price on the bid sheet. Pest reports are notoriously vague, the bid sheet is important information in determining the scope of the work. Speaking of hiring your own contractor, this is completely fine to do, but be aware, anyone OTHER than the pest company doing the work will require a reinspection of the work to make sure it was done. Pest companies charge for reinspections, so any savings you gain by doing it yourself needs to be significant enough to recoup the reinspect fee.
A good home inspection is a must, but it always pays to have half a clue as to what to look for; I recall seeing a book online about home inspections. Google is your friend... My last inspection, the company encouraged questions from me and we chatted about a number of items as we went through the house. I also did a lot of close inspection of my own when we first looked at the house so I had my list of things to be looking at during the inspection.
You raise a good point. Knowing a little about what to look for can help weed out or move a property to the top of the list very quickly. Home inspections are a paid service, so it's not feasible to get one on every property you look at, which is where knowing some of what to look for yourself comes in. I've never had either a pest company or home inspector not be willing to answer questions or watch them do their thing. Additionally, if you can personally go over their findings at the time of the inspection, it will go a very long way to understanding the reports when they are sent to you later. All too often, my clients have no idea what was found in the report or who is responsible to fix it.
On the point of who is responsible, home inspection reports are 100% negotiable between buyer and seller. Pest inspections are another matter. Your choice of financing will play a roll in what repairs are required, some lenders, or forms of lending, require a perfectly clear pest report. A pest report is broken down into two parts, Section 1 and Section 2. Section 1 items are active infestations of pests or rot that pose an imminent threat to the structure. Section 2 items are less critical items, such as a cracked or fogged window, missing window screens, that sort of thing. I highly recommend that you only use a pest company that also does the repair work. Some pest companies only spray chemicals and do inspections, this type of company will not provide a bid sheet for the repairs, which not only tells you how expensive it will be, but also, should you choose to hire your own contractor, they will be able to tell the extent of the work by the price on the bid sheet. Pest reports are notoriously vague, the bid sheet is important information in determining the scope of the work. Speaking of hiring your own contractor, this is completely fine to do, but be aware, anyone OTHER than the pest company doing the work will require a reinspection of the work to make sure it was done. Pest companies charge for reinspections, so any savings you gain by doing it yourself needs to be significant enough to recoup the reinspect fee.
I felt like when I threw the 10k answer out there that I was saying if I found this property with an older home on it in decent shape maybe not all updated or anything special I could probably buy it for say 90-100k if it was a newer home 20yr or less same size decent shape not way out of date probably 130-150k.
That's such an odd question to answer though. That's my issue. A home in the exact same shape as this place with the same amenities same size probably 120-130k.
That's such an odd question to answer though. That's my issue. A home in the exact same shape as this place with the same amenities same size probably 120-130k.
Originally Posted by ram_man
That's my issue. A home in the exact same shape as this place with the same amenities same size probably 120-130k.
When all things are "equal" and you are seeing this, then it is absolutely the difference in the type of construction, i.e., trailer over conventionally framed. This is why you want to do comps, or property comparisons. It allows you to define parameters and compare recently sold properties based on those parameters.
Common parameters are:
Type of house - stick frame, trailer, modular, geodesic home, yurt, teepee, quanset hut, condo, etc.
Property size, either by lot dimensions or by acreage
House size - square footage, one story, two story, basement, no basement, etc.
House layout - number of bedrooms, bathrooms, garage, no garage, attached/detached garage, etc.
Property features - swimming pool, shop, tennis court, barns/out buildings, etc.
I mentioned earlier that many agents don't know how to do a comp. They'll simply put in 2 bed, 2 bath and be done, this doesn't do you any good when the type of construction and size of property is going to affect price. it also doesn't do you any good if those comps are from neighboring cities.
That's my issue. A home in the exact same shape as this place with the same amenities same size probably 120-130k.
When all things are "equal" and you are seeing this, then it is absolutely the difference in the type of construction, i.e., trailer over conventionally framed. This is why you want to do comps, or property comparisons. It allows you to define parameters and compare recently sold properties based on those parameters.
Common parameters are:
Type of house - stick frame, trailer, modular, geodesic home, yurt, teepee, quanset hut, condo, etc.
Property size, either by lot dimensions or by acreage
House size - square footage, one story, two story, basement, no basement, etc.
House layout - number of bedrooms, bathrooms, garage, no garage, attached/detached garage, etc.
Property features - swimming pool, shop, tennis court, barns/out buildings, etc.
I mentioned earlier that many agents don't know how to do a comp. They'll simply put in 2 bed, 2 bath and be done, this doesn't do you any good when the type of construction and size of property is going to affect price. it also doesn't do you any good if those comps are from neighboring cities.
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