Oil temperature data

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by OppositeLocK
Originally Posted by Mitch Alsup
Originally Posted by painfx
What oil temperature range is consider good?


Above the boiling point of water (100ºC or 212ºF)
Below the point where the oil becomes too think to prevent m-to-m contact (less than 300ºF and also dependent on the base oil)
Longest motor life will be found when oil is 220ºF-230ºF


Just curious what your source is for this?


I don't have a link readily available, but that's been long known and documented in SAE papers.


I'm neutral on this (or at least I'll give an opinion on another post). I noticed Bitoggers will mention the SAE without actually providing a link to the paper. This often results in information being handed out that actually has nothing to do with the SAE. The SAE has over 207,000 documents in its library. The way to search them is by this link:

https://saemobilus.sae.org/

You can type in a couple of key words and try find the paper. It only provides a few key paragraphs of info. I believe you need a membership and there is a fee involved to get the paper.

Like I said, this is just a neutral handy tip. Carry on.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR


I don't have a link readily available, but that's been long known and documented in SAE papers.


I'm neutral on this (or at least I'll give an opinion on another post). I noticed Bitoggers will mention the SAE without actually providing a link to the paper. This often results in information being handed out that actually has nothing to do with the SAE. The SAE has over 207,000 documents in its library. The way to search them is by this link:

https://saemobilus.sae.org/

You can type in a couple of key words and try find the paper. It only provides a few key paragraphs of info. I believe you need a membership and there is a fee involved to get the paper.

Like I said, this is just a neutral handy tip. Carry on.

I don't have an SAE membership, but I'm good friends with people that do. I have some data, but I'm not at liberty to post it to public.

What is your alternative theory? I'm not being condescending or anything. I would like to have a civil discussion about this topic. What's your thoughts on it?

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted by TiGeo
VWs have the choice to add oil temp to the dash display that you can toggle through. I find it v. helpful on my tuned Golf to know when I am up to temp to start hammering it!

My 2018 VW Atlas with the 3.6L VR6 - typically in the 200-210 range. Higher for more load i.e. mountain driving. Really doesn't vary that much with temps here in VA where we see mid-to-upper 90s in the summer and 20-30s for lows in the winter.

My 2018 VW Golf Sportwagen 1.8 turbo with Stage 1+ tune - typically in the 215-225 range. More sending it = higher temps.



I'm curious what tune you have on the GSW? After the APR tune on mine, oil temps dropped--significantly. Generally ~185-195, with a high of 210 worst case. I thought APR was maybe a bit aggressive with the cooling regime on a stage 1 tune.

My R actually runs a bit cooler stock, 195-200 most times. Even after some hard driving, it rarely goes over 210. The stock Alltrack definitely seems to keep the oil hotter.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted by Mitch Alsup
Originally Posted by painfx
What oil temperature range is consider good?


Above the boiling point of water (100ºC or 212ºF)
Below the point where the oil becomes too think to prevent m-to-m contact (less than 300ºF and also dependent on the base oil)
Longest motor life will be found when oil is 220ºF-230ºF


oil temps where?

most temp sensors are measured in the sump, and it takes very little time for oil to have a 30 degree swing in operation. I know of very few (if any) production cars that keep sump temperatures above 220 degrees as a matter of course.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I don't have a link readily available, but that's been long known and documented in SAE papers. You want the oil hot enough to boil out any water and fuel contamination. The additives in the oil are also heat sensitive in terms of reactivity. The hotter the oil, the more reactive and effective additives like ZDDP and MoDTC become. That said, oil oxidizes more rapidly as temperatures increase above 190*F.

Ideal temperature for oil life = 175-190*F
Ideal temperature for engine life = 210-230*F

I have read this too but it's been a long time ago.
Also said was oil over 250F degrades rapidly and over 300F it's unusable.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by JOD
oil temps where?

most temp sensors are measured in the sump, and it takes very little time for oil to have a 30 degree swing in operation. I know of very few (if any) production cars that keep sump temperatures above 220 degrees as a matter of course.

Basically anywhere oil reaches it's peak temperature. Could be anywhere in the engine.
Edit: Synthetic oils can bump these condemnation temperatures by about 50F.

 

[3311]

Are some of you guys looking at transmisson temps mistakenly with those dash guages?

 

[Snagglefoot]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR


I don't have a link readily available, but that's been long known and documented in SAE papers.


I'm neutral on this (or at least I'll give an opinion on another post). I noticed Bitoggers will mention the SAE without actually providing a link to the paper. This often results in information being handed out that actually has nothing to do with the SAE. The SAE has over 207,000 documents in its library. The way to search them is by this link:

https://saemobilus.sae.org/

You can type in a couple of key words and try find the paper. It only provides a few key paragraphs of info. I believe you need a membership and there is a fee involved to get the paper.

Like I said, this is just a neutral handy tip. Carry on.

I don't have an SAE membership, but I'm good friends with people that do. I have some data, but I'm not at liberty to post it to public.

What is your alternative theory? I'm not being condescending or anything. I would like to have a civil discussion about this topic. What's your thoughts on it?


Ok. I'm not going to quote the SAE, but I believe manufacturers prefer to run the engine at high a temperature as is practical. This is due to getting the maximum efficiency out of the engine. Remember when engine used to run at 180 degrees?

A temp of 210 F is common now. This is just below the boiling point of water but with ethylene glycol and radiator pressure the boiling point is raised enough to make sure the rad will not boil over.

Then somehow, the SAE determined that oil viscosity will be measured at 100 C (212 F). (Sorry, no paper). The two travel together, 100 C oil couples with the maximum temp the engine will run at without expensive fluids in the rad.

So back to the best temp ; we know that at 100 C the viscosity of motor oil will be some where between 7 and 14 cSt depending on what grade you run. ( My apologies to Aussies running SAE 50.) As we know as the temp rises towards 230 F we know the oil will thin out. The main way to raise the oil temp is through rpm. Judging from imperical data from Bitggoers it seems the oil temps range from being same as an engine temp of 210 to temp to around 230 F depending on how hard you are flogging the engine. If you are running at 230 F you might run a higher grade if you believed viscosity affects engine longevity. If you take it easy on the engine the oil will be around 210 F or slightly less. I noticed my last two Burbs both had oil coolers so It's pretty obvious the GM thinks it's important to keep the temps to the low side.

I have no comments on additives and such but I assume they are designed to operate at normal oil temps which are 210 to 230 F. So that's it. The engine will tell you what the oil temp will be and it will be a function of rpm and what auxiliary cooling equipment you have.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by JOD
oil temps where?

most temp sensors are measured in the sump, and it takes very little time for oil to have a 30 degree swing in operation. I know of very few (if any) production cars that keep sump temperatures above 220 degrees as a matter of course.

Basically anywhere oil reaches it's peak temperature. Could be anywhere in the engine.


Oil heats up above the sump temperature when it gets squeezed through the journal bearings (ie, the oil "heaters").

Also, water will evaporate below 212 deg F.

 

[Mitch Alsup]

Originally Posted by OppositeLocK
Originally Posted by Mitch Alsup
Originally Posted by painfx
What oil temperature range is consider good?


Above the boiling point of water (100ºC or 212ºF)
Below the point where the oil becomes too think to prevent m-to-m contact (less than 300ºF and also dependent on the base oil)
Longest motor life will be found when oil is 220ºF-230ºF


Just curious what your source is for this?


Most of this I accreeted from BITOG some 15-odd years ago when I was more into oil than I am now. I dredged it up from memory.

As to where is the oil temp measured, In my case it is at the bottom of the dry sump after the deaerator and the oil-to-air heat exchanger. This would be the point where the oil is coolest. The accuracy of the gauge is unknown. I am sure the oil coming out of the main bearings at 8,500 RPMs is at least 30ºF hotter.