Oil change for winter? 10w30 vs. 5w40

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Originally Posted By: TomB985
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Here we are again-questioning a multinational manufacturer, who designed this engine from the ground up, who OBVIOUSLY have no idea what grade of oil to put in it?? I find it interesting that they state that 0W30 & 40 are acceptable across ALL TEMPERATURES-glad I don't have their warranty claims!
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I would use the 10w30 year round, unless you fall into the extreme heavy towing. I personally use dino HDEO 10w30 year round; I put my money where my mouth is. it will get down to zero deg F a few times a year in my area; never had starting issues and UOAs always come back fine.

If you want a bit of extra conscious-soothing 'comfort zone', then try the new T5 10w30 available at most WM stores for a very attractive price (recently seen under $12/gallon).

My local WM has it marked down to $11.50/gallon. I went ahead and purchased some for my next oil change.
 
Originally Posted By: STG
The OP has decided on 5w-40 and started a T6 vs, M1 TDT thread.


Yeah, as much as I don't want to discard relatively fresh oil I think it makes sense. I don't see the minor differences in low temp viscosity making a huge difference, but I'll be the first to admit I don't have $15K for a new engine.

If I were to have any lubrication issues Ford would simply point to the chart in the book and tell me I should have used the specified oil. And they'd be right.

So when I put things in perspective it just doesn't make sense to risk $15,000 to save $60.

Thanks for the replies everyone!
 
At the risk of belaboring this, some comments:

1) I didn't catch how hard you work your truck but if you fit into that "normal usage" category as shown in your visc. example, the 10W30 would be fine. There are are people here, me included, that run 10W30 in diesels with good results long term. And if it's in the recommendation, and you are using the vehicle within those recommendations, then you have nothing to worry about in or out of warranty. If you fit that "normal" category, there is really no benefit to going to heavier, though no loss, except perhaps slightly in mpg.

2) The day-to-day differences between a 10W30 and 5W40 aren't huge in any practical comparison. Neither are the long term differences. We can debate lots of "what-ifs," most which never happen. Most people don't work their trucks hard enough or often enough to really "need" a heavier oil or to overwhelm the lighter oil, especially some of the very good stuff we have available now. If you work the truck a high percentage of the time, then the needle swings more into the 5W40 camp.

3) Since you just had the engine partly apart and it never hurts to flush out any potential contamination.

4) We've been having this soot-stained xxW30 vs XXW40 for diesels debate for a long while and neither side can produce much in the way of studies or data to support either argument absolutely. No one-size-is-best-for-all magic bullet. It all comes down to matching the viscosity to the operational characteristics and oil temps of the engine. But any plusses and minuses may even out in the long run, whichever camp you are in, making this debate a waste of bandwidth. But then, we simply can't stop ourselves!
 
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Rotella T6 5W-40 seems to be the obvious answer.
amen,,would be my choice, but I use it anyway in my gas 318 dodge,,best oil I ever settled on IMO, good all weather oil for me ............
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No matter what is best

No matter what will work

there will always be that small segment that does what the owners manual "suggests" no matter that there might be a better option out there.

Why they ask for advice -- I guess to see it it coincides with what they already have decided to do .
 
Originally Posted By: badnews
No matter what is best

No matter what will work

there will always be that small segment that does what the owners manual "suggests" no matter that there might be a better option out there.

Why they ask for advice -- I guess to see it it coincides with what they already have decided to do .


Are you back trying to give recommendations for engines you know nothing about? Stick to your MB's and Cummins as you obviously know very little about any of the Powerstroke motors!
 
Diesel engine is diesel engine

some are just better than others.

The powerstuck is just a different design
 
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The Powerstroke is a BUNCH of different designs-from HPOP to HEUI to CR, not even including the IDIs like my '89 (which would be happy with SAE 30 straight for every 4K or so until the body FINISHES falling off of it!)-every year was a little different, the HEUI motors like my co.'s 6.0s & 7.3s shear the daylights out of everything you put in them-but there doesn't seem to be a lot of info on the 6.4 & 6.7 motors-they could end up being as easy on oil as a Duramax or a Cummins. BTW, my boss's '03 E-350 7.3 has just turned over 396K trouble-free miles, running exclusively Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme-still sounds the same as it did new! Unfortunately the rest of the van is coming apart!
 
Originally Posted By: badnews
Diesel engine is diesel engine

some are just better than others.




I don't know that I can find any credibility in those contradictory statments. Are you saying that all diesel engines are alike, but some are "better"? Would that not imply that some are not as good? So, they are all alike, but all different?

If I were to say I have the exact same shirt as you, except my shirt is short sleeve and your shirt is long sleeve, and mine is red but your shirt is blue, and mine has no collar, though your shirt is button down, but other than that, they're identical ... does that make sense?

I'm not tying to pick on you, but I struggle to follow your logic stream at times. Help me understand what you meant, if you can, please.
 
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Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
At the risk of belaboring this, some comments:

1) I didn't catch how hard you work your truck but if you fit into that "normal usage" category as shown in your visc. example, the 10W30 would be fine. There are are people here, me included, that run 10W30 in diesels with good results long term. And if it's in the recommendation, and you are using the vehicle within those recommendations, then you have nothing to worry about in or out of warranty. If you fit that "normal" category, there is really no benefit to going to heavier, though no loss, except perhaps slightly in mpg.

2) The day-to-day differences between a 10W30 and 5W40 aren't huge in any practical comparison. Neither are the long term differences. We can debate lots of "what-ifs," most which never happen. Most people don't work their trucks hard enough or often enough to really "need" a heavier oil or to overwhelm the lighter oil, especially some of the very good stuff we have available now. If you work the truck a high percentage of the time, then the needle swings more into the 5W40 camp.

3) Since you just had the engine partly apart and it never hurts to flush out any potential contamination.

4) We've been having this soot-stained xxW30 vs XXW40 for diesels debate for a long while and neither side can produce much in the way of studies or data to support either argument absolutely. No one-size-is-best-for-all magic bullet. It all comes down to matching the viscosity to the operational characteristics and oil temps of the engine. But any plusses and minuses may even out in the long run, whichever camp you are in, making this debate a waste of bandwidth. But then, we simply can't stop ourselves!


Good thoughts, Jim.

But my question isn't so much about performance when loaded as it is about cold starting.

If I could find a 5w30 CJ4 rated diesel oil I would probably use that! Unfortunately I haven't seen anything like this anywhere, so in order to get 5w oil I have to spend the money on synthetic 5w40.

My question was whether or not 10w30 would adequately protect the engine for cold starting down to -25 F.

Bad News, I hadn't already decided anything when I posted this. I wanted to know if 10w30 would suffice for the winters we have up here. What made me decide to get 5w40 was going through historical data and seeing the week they had up here last January where the lows were near -20 and the highs were around 0.

This is my first winter up here so I didn't know exactly what to expect.
 
I don't know if you guys have it down there but I just picked up 8L of Delvac 1 ESP 0W40 for my winter oil to run in my Toyota 3.0L TD. I was at the Imperial Oil place today to find one for winter and I was told that most of the bush workers run that oil in their trucks and it gets to -40 here at night in the winter. This oil is a CJ-4 oil and the two jugs and my new fuel filter came to $79. I'm gonna do a UOA on it at 5000kms and see how it is holding up.

Its just another idea. I'm new to this. I ran 5W40 last winter and it worked fine starting down to -30 as I wasn't here for the coldest parts of winter. That was not plugged in either as I had no place to.
 
There are a couple of 5w30 PAO HDEOs but they are not CJ-4 compliant.

Your first post was simply asking if there was a distinct difference between a 5w-40 and 10w30 for your cold starts. Your average low in winter is -1 deg F, so I'm sure you see mornings of the negative teens several times. To be honest, I think either grade will work well. The 10w30 HDEO is an approved grade you could use year round. Today's diesel engines start so much better than those of yester-year.

I think you'd find dino 10w30 HDEO good down to the temps you mentioned. Certainly, the Rotella T5 semi-syn in 10w30 would be capable at those temps. I just saw it again for $11.99 at WM; you really are going to be hard pressed to find an oil with that performance potential, as easily attainable, for that cost, anywhere else.

In short, to answer your question, I see no reason to dump out your 10w30 in favor of 5w-40 for the winter. In fact, I see no reason for you not to run 10w30 year round. Your new PSD does not use the oil for anything but lubrication (no HPOP or HEUI) so there will be no cold-idle-romp or other such stuff to endure relavant to oil grade. In short, it's only winter start up wear you're concerned with.

If you want to know FOR SURE, then you'll have to spend a lot of time and money with a bunch of OCIs this winter, and track the temps, start crank revolutions, and all other variables including wear metals. And unless you're piling on the miles heavily, you'll NEVER get enough data collected over one winter to rule out "noise" from the statistical analysis.

Frankly, I think you're worrying over nothing. But then again, that's what BITOGers do ...
 
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Get the Data Sheet (such as it is) from Shell's site and look at what they call dynamic viscosity, ASTM D5293, which is the apparent viscosity of oil between -5 and -35C as tested in a cold cranking simulator. A lower number is better.

The Data Sheets convention T-3 oils do not list this spec but show pour point

10W30/15W40= -30C pour point

The T-5 Semi-Syns:

0W30= Dyn Visc- 5680, -51C pour point
10W30= Dyn Visc- 6000, -42C pour point
10W40= Dyn Visc- 6700, -39C pour point

The T-6 Syn

5W40= Dyn Visc- 6000, -42C pour point


As you can see, there is little to choose among the T-5 and T-6 oils in terms of cold weather and pour points. You can extrapolate a little on the conventional T-3 oils by their pour points, but I have in notes from talking to a Shell guy some time back that the dynamic viscosity on the 10W30 was 6600 and the 15W40 was 7000 (that was CJ-4 oil if it matters). The 10W30 T5 and the 5W40 T6 are nearly identical. The 40 grade oil just takes you a little farther into the warm weather area, using your OE viscosity chart. The 40 grade would likely cost you a little mpg (a very little) in warm weather but would provide better protection in hot, or if you were running loaded and hard in any ambient temp.

As I said, it's almost a tossup but I wouldn't worry about dumping the 10W30 in there now in favor of a 5W40. You have time to agonize over your oil choice thru the winter. At least you have a place to come for mutual hand-wringing. ( : < )
 
So from what I can gather the coldest it normally gets around here is -20 to -25 degrees, so you guys think that the Motorcraft 10w30 that's in it now will adequately protect it for cold starts in that temperature range?

If so you just saved me $60! I'll just return the oil.
 
That is exactly what we're saying. The 10w30 HDEO MC is fine for your area. Save your money; use what you have in there now, becauase you're not going to get any significant "cold start" advantage from the 5w-40 over the 10w30.

Upon your next OCI, consider the T5 10w30 for year round viability; it's cheap, it's good, it meets the CJ-4 specs, and it's easy to find.
 
Originally Posted By: badnews
STG



What drugs are you on ?
What drugs should you be on ?



Inappropriate. Member temporarily banned.

Folks, don't follow him down this road please. Keep it civil and I'll leave the thread open; if not, I'll lock it and throw away the key. If you disagree with my actions, PM me.
 
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