Oil Catch Cans - another danger...

[FlyPenFly]

Originally Posted by Metfanant
Originally Posted by FlyPenFly
Again, these don't work to prevent carbon intake build up so it's pointless to run them.


For the sake of conversation, because we can all learn things every day...and for the record I don't run a catch can on my car

- what hard proof do you have that there is zero positive effect?


Intake valve build up has plagued BMW/Audi especially. Several threads of people installing catch cans after a cleaning and still getting the exact same build up in a similar number of miles. If catch cans actually worked, Audi/BMW would happily install them.

 

[Dyusik]

Originally Posted by NoNameJoe
I wonder how this happened. It seems plausible but several things confuse me:
1. The pressure was strong enough to blow the rear main seal but not enough to push the ice? I guess if it's located near a kink or sharp curve this is probably harder than it sounds.
2. The blow by is hot air. How did ice form in lines where blow by is flowing? Also the lines are usually located close to the engine right? I wonder if the catch can or the lines were routed too far away from the engine. Maybe a closer installation (or not using a CC at all) would be better.

Maybe it froze while the car was off after a short drive or something?


The CC is separated by some length of lines, gas at temp can only reach if there is circulation happening.

However, unless running two cans (PCV+CCV), there is no way to let that pressure build up, no second can mentioned. And as mentioned before, I would think the dipstick would be a pressure relief route in case of failure.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Originally Posted by FlyPenFly
If catch cans actually worked, Audi/BMW would happily install them.

 

[Metfanant]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by FlyPenFly
If catch cans actually worked, Audi/BMW would happily install them.

I disagree that it is that simple...

You're talking about the average user here...can barely be bothered to change their oil at regular intervals...you want them to empty a can even more regularly?

 

[FlyPenFly]

Originally Posted by Linctex
If you live in SAN DIEGO you will never, ever, ever have this problem!!


People in hot climates sometimes go on road trips to go skiing or camping in mountainous cold areas. Probably one of the worst times for your car to suffer serious multiple oil leaks and seals blowing... where there's no reception and it's freezing.

Originally Posted by Metfanant

I disagree that it is that simple...

You're talking about the average user here...can barely be bothered to change their oil at regular intervals...you want them to empty a can even more regularly?


For the avg Audi/BMW person who goes for dealer service (or even an indy), it'll just be part of the oil change.

 

[tcp71]

Ford has multiple patents on methods of keeping the valves clean using variable valve timing. Most manufacturers have similar methods of controlling buildup and don't need valve cleaning. Early VW and Audi (maybe BMW) DI engines didn't employ any of these methods and that's where all the "catch can", "walnut blasting", etc started. The vast majority of DI engines have zero need for any of these "services", but dealers have caught on that you can sell them and make a bunch of money on unaware customers that get scared by the internet.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US7137377B2/en

https://patents.google.com/patent/US6178944B1/en

 

[FlyPenFly]

Originally Posted by tcp71
Ford has multiple patents on methods of keeping the valves clean using variable valve timing. Most manufacturers have similar methods of controlling buildup and don't need valve cleaning. Early VW and Audi (maybe BMW) DI engines didn't employ any of these methods and that's where all the "catch can", "walnut blasting", etc started. The vast majority of DI engines have zero need for any of these "services", but dealers have caught on that you can sell them and make a bunch of money on unaware customers that get scared by the internet.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US7137377B2/en

https://patents.google.com/patent/US6178944B1/en



Dude, it's not "maybe BMW", it's a severe and widely known problem and even 2017/2018 cars are still affected in the US. Audi has recently started introducing dual port and direct injection engines to help alleviate this problem.

Makes no sense to put walnut blasting in quotes... it's like saying "oil change".

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by StevieC
We don't know their exact setup and we don't know if it appeared to be the catch can but was actually something else. I wouldn't trust a forum without seeing it first hand or having the whole story.

I've seen plugged PCV's before and it will either force the dipstick out of the tube or pop the PCV/hose off and cause 0 issues with seals on the engine.

It's super cold here right now, I'll let you know if my engine encounters the same fate.


If there was any merit OEM's would include it as optional or standard equipment. Catch cans are another example of "men" having the urge to perceive controlling a factor out of their control.

 

[SZR48207]

Screw the pcv. Crankcase breathers all the way lol.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by Metfanant
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by FlyPenFly
If catch cans actually worked, Audi/BMW would happily install them.

I disagree that it is that simple...

You're talking about the average user here...can barely be bothered to change their oil at regular intervals...you want them to empty a can even more regularly?



It's really that simple catch cans have no fuction. If they did it would be installed and it would be part of the maintenance package most new car owners have for the first few years of ownership.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted by Reddy45
Screw the pcv. Crankcase breathers all the way lol.

+1
Or better yet, just don't buy a vehicle with DI as the only source of fuel for the cylinders.

With all these "advancements" in automotive engineering, you gotta wonder "who's really benefiting from it all?"

 

[2heeldrive]

It seems to me that this is exactly why catch cans are not OEM. They require maintenance.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted by tcp71
Ford has multiple patents on methods of keeping the valves clean using variable valve timing. Most manufacturers have similar methods of controlling buildup and don't need valve cleaning. Early VW and Audi (maybe BMW) DI engines didn't employ any of these methods and that's where all the "catch can", "walnut blasting", etc started. The vast majority of DI engines have zero need for any of these "services", but dealers have caught on that you can sell them and make a bunch of money on unaware customers that get scared by the internet.


None of the Ford engines have issues with valve deposits as long as they are operating properly. Ford probably has the most DI/Turbo engines on the road and they are not dropping like flies with deposits despite high miles on many. You also don't hear of issues with the other manufacturers (VW/Audi and BMW excepted) GDI engines because of deposits.

I had a catch can seller tell me my EB 3.5's would be dead before 100k without their can. It would have low power, low MPG, and be ready for the junkyard. At that time I had 80K+ of MPG data showing pretty much the same. And at 128k it starts and runs great with the same MPG, running the cheapest gas I can find, dealer oil for the first 75k changed when the OLM said, etc. Despite running their products, he never could back up his power claims with MPG or Dyno data.

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted by dave1251

It's really that simple catch cans have no fuction. If they did it would be installed and it would be part of the maintenance package most new car owners have for the first few years of ownership.

I respectfully disagree.
If owners were informed of this "required service" (cleaning out a sludge bin every time they have their oil changed), you'd better believe they'd be looking at other vehicles.

Manufacturers want to sell a vehicle as having as little maintenance/downtime as possible. This means less fuel consumed, fewer oil changes needed (10, 15, 20k mile intervals ) etc. regardless if it's a blatant lie or not.

At the end of the day, they are out to sell you on the idea of the "perfect vehicle" to fit your needs.
They know you aren't going to marry it, only have it in your possession a few years before you get bored of it or its repairs/maintenance outweight it's value.
The sooner they can get out out of it and into another one of their machines (without souring your view of the product/company), the better!

 

[FlyPenFly]

Actually, car manufacturers care a lot about resale value. High resale value supports firm pricing on new cars and fewer expensive promos... higher overall margins.

 

[demarpaint]

I have a friend [censored] bent on wanting to install one on his Wrangler. I suggested he do some more research for himself. My concern is if the vehicle is not driven daily in cold weather and the can fills and freezes, that would be far worse imo, than what he is trying to fend off in a non-DI 3.6 L Pentastar engine.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
I have a friend [censored] bent on wanting to install one on his Wrangler. I suggested he do some more research for himself. My concern is if the vehicle is not driven daily in cold weather and the can fills and freezes, that would be far worse imo, than what he is trying to fend off in a non-DI 3.6 L Pentastar engine.


There are tons of people running catch cans on their 3.6, 5.7, and 6.4 Mopars and I have yet to hear of one freezing. It's mostly oil with little bit of water.

 

[Metfanant]

Originally Posted by dave1251



It's really that simple catch cans have no fuction. If they did it would be installed and it would be part of the maintenance package most new car owners have for the first few years of ownership.


Come on...that's a comical answer...you really think the average person would be into emptying this can? Taking it into the dealership to have their can emptied?

There is no way that every single car of a certain make/model would fill the can at the exact same rate, so there is no way to tell people a certain time...you would probably have to add a can with a sensor that reads the level in the can so you could have an on dash indicator for it...

I'm not saying these things are necessary by any stretch, but I think the "if they worked OEMs would install them" argument is absolutely laughable

 

[FlyPenFly]

You would actually have the can just stop collecting if full. You can chart out a reasonable rate at which they fill up for a particular engine design and tie the capacity for the average oil drain interval. It's pretty simple.

But again, the catch can is an easy high margin item that is snake oil.

 

[sloinker]

Methanol injection is the next step or alternate step in my research. I've pretty much decided to forego either one in my 2.0L TGDI VW and just use better oil with more frequent changes than factory specified. That coupled with top tier gas and some Red LIne conditioner every few months. I will go ahead and sandblast the intake chamber in the head if it eventually needs it. Hopefully that is well past 100k miles.