Non -detergent in a lawnmower???

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Originally Posted By: wally6934
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: wally6934
I have read that ND oil is used in air compressors. Is this true? and if so is there any reason regular motor oil can not be used.


I believe the concern was possibility of foaming, but I've always used detergent oils in mine without issue... One I bought used in the 80s did later suffer from a rust hole in the tank, wonder if that can be blamed on the detergent oil?


I did some Googling after i posted that question. I found one source that said sometimes the seals used in compressors are not compatible with motor oil. But i have no positive confirmation about that. I do not think it is a foaming problem because motor oil in a splash lubrication system like small engines has to have a good de-foaming agent.

I think the reason no one here knows anything about ND oil is because of the obvious fact that it is not motor oil. So we do not have the right people here.

The hole in your air tank is just from water in the tank. You are supposed to keep it drained. I kind of remember automatic water drains from Ingersoll Rand that operate every time you cycle the air compressor. Otherwise you do i manually when ever you think of it.

I had a 10 HP IR compressor that made gallons of water. I got tired of draining it all the time and let it go for awhile. The tank rusted out in about 10 years.


Nd oil is for compressors. Air compressors are usually splash lubricated so regular motor oils will foam up,I've seen it countless times in my 12 5.5hp inline. Twin,v-twins and a couple triples. I now use Amsoil in the pumps,changed yearly.
 
Clevy, if you want to trade anecdotal stories here is a good one i found while Googling.

We have an OLD Quincy 325 at work that have run the pi$$ out of (bought used 25-30 years ago, ran 12-18 hours a day constantly, has worn out 2 gas engines and 2 electric motors) and we use regular motor oil in it. It has mobile 1 synthetic in it right now i'm pretty sure. Forgot what weight tho, and i'm the one that put the oil in it! lol.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: wally6934
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: wally6934
I have read that ND oil is used in air compressors. Is this true? and if so is there any reason regular motor oil can not be used.


I believe the concern was possibility of foaming, but I've always used detergent oils in mine without issue... One I bought used in the 80s did later suffer from a rust hole in the tank, wonder if that can be blamed on the detergent oil?


I did some Googling after i posted that question. I found one source that said sometimes the seals used in compressors are not compatible with motor oil. But i have no positive confirmation about that. I do not think it is a foaming problem because motor oil in a splash lubrication system like small engines has to have a good de-foaming agent.

I think the reason no one here knows anything about ND oil is because of the obvious fact that it is not motor oil. So we do not have the right people here.

The hole in your air tank is just from water in the tank. You are supposed to keep it drained. I kind of remember automatic water drains from Ingersoll Rand that operate every time you cycle the air compressor. Otherwise you do i manually when ever you think of it.

I had a 10 HP IR compressor that made gallons of water. I got tired of draining it all the time and let it go for awhile. The tank rusted out in about 10 years.


Nd oil is for compressors. Air compressors are usually splash lubricated so regular motor oils will foam up,I've seen it countless times in my 12 5.5hp inline. Twin,v-twins and a couple triples. I now use Amsoil in the pumps,changed yearly.
So all those L Head Briggs splash lubricated motors need ND oil. Not what my genset manual says.
 
Man, yesterday I was over at Dads house. Checked his Ryobi Briggs 6.5HP OHV lawnmower over, checked oil(last changed myself in 2009 with ACCEL ND30)and it was barely Brown and just a millimeter above FULL. I asked my Dad what he had been topping it off with, since this Lawn mower gets used Alot in dirty, Hot environments(Dry, dusty Rental lawns),..and he said he hasnt even checked it. I have had Good results in my own Small engines with various brands of ND30 as well. Thats why I continue to use it.
 
Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
Man, yesterday I was over at Dads house. Checked his Ryobi Briggs 6.5HP OHV lawnmower over, checked oil(last changed myself in 2009 with ACCEL ND30)and it was barely Brown and just a millimeter above FULL. I asked my Dad what he had been topping it off with, since this Lawn mower gets used Alot in dirty, Hot environments(Dry, dusty Rental lawns),..and he said he hasnt even checked it. I have had Good results in my own Small engines with various brands of ND30 as well. Thats why I continue to use it.
Because the manuals say to use ND, or because of your luck?
 
Quote:
I think the reason no one here knows anything about ND oil is because of the obvious fact that it is not motor oil. So we do not have the right people here.


I have had a number of ND oils of various viscosites analyzed and none had any Protection additives and had about 50 ppm of anti-foamant.
 
Nondetergant oils are used in equipment that doesn't want the particulate floating around in the oil. Think air compressors with large sumps on them. Machining mills and lathes also usually call for nondetergant oil so particulate can fall out. Same with some hydraulic fluids.

I've got experience with plenty of nondetergant oils that have quite a rich additive package. Ammonia and CO2 compressor fluids for instance.

Like MolaKule has said a lot - you can not determine what an oil is used for just by a couple individual facts. It's the entire package that does work.
 
Rust in the air tank? Related to ND lube in compressor? Are you insane?
Air have moisture in it, when compressed it forms water, hence the rust inside compressor tanks. That has no relation to the detergence effects on dirt in the crank house oil. At least that's what I think...
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: wally6934
I have read that ND oil is used in air compressors. Is this true? and if so is there any reason regular motor oil can not be used.


I believe the concern was possibility of foaming, but I've always used detergent oils in mine without issue... One I bought used in the 80s did later suffer from a rust hole in the tank, wonder if that can be blamed on the detergent oil?
 
There was an old-school train of thought that held that ND oils should be used in any engine without an oil filter.
Sixty years ago, when the detergent/dispersant properties of oil weren't very good, anti-wear additives were sparse, virgin TBN was low and drain intervals were always short, there might have been little disadvantage in using an ND oil.
There is not too much to support this tenet today.
 
Originally Posted By: lars11
Rust in the air tank? Related to ND lube in compressor? Are you insane?
Air have moisture in it, when compressed it forms water, hence the rust inside compressor tanks.



Duuuh I suppose I should have added a wink after the post to note it was made in jest...

That statement is so outlandish I didn't think anyone would actually believe I thought the detergent oil caused the rust...
 
Ok, sorry for not noticing the irony, eventhough I agree it was quite obvious..
Well, reminded me to let the water out of the old compressor tank, a cup or so had accumulated in there.


Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: lars11
Rust in the air tank? Related to ND lube in compressor? Are you insane?
Air have moisture in it, when compressed it forms water, hence the rust inside compressor tanks.



Duuuh I suppose I should have added a wink after the post to note it was made in jest...

That statement is so outlandish I didn't think anyone would actually believe I thought the detergent oil caused the rust...
 
Why on earth would you do that.

Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
50% SuperTech 5w-20 with 50% ND30 or pretty much Any brand, is my favorite mix for Small 4 Strokes, except Wet Clutchers.
 
Quote:
I've got experience with plenty of nondetergant oils that have quite a rich additive package.


I have never seen a non-detergent oil with a rich additive package. In fact, there are usually NO PI additives, just a GroupI virgin mineral oil with about 50ppm of anti-foamant.

So, you're telling us that Acell, Puregard, etc. ND API SA 30W or 20W or 10W, have a rich additive package?

Please list the new oil analyses from your oils.

Quote:
50% SuperTech 5w-20 with 50% ND30 or pretty much Any brand, is my favorite mix for Small 4 Strokes, except Wet Clutchers.


And this is supposed to control wear?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
Man, yesterday I was over at Dads house. Checked his Ryobi Briggs 6.5HP OHV lawnmower over, checked oil(last changed myself in 2009 with ACCEL ND30)and it was barely Brown and just a millimeter above FULL. I asked my Dad what he had been topping it off with, since this Lawn mower gets used Alot in dirty, Hot environments(Dry, dusty Rental lawns),..and he said he hasnt even checked it. I have had Good results in my own Small engines with various brands of ND30 as well. Thats why I continue to use it.


Of course the oil was barely brown, it doesn't have any freakin' detergents to clean anything!!! How's it going to get dirty???
crazy2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
In the Interest of Science. Its called Tribology. Also, found that it works very good.


Ummmm... No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribology

Quote:
Tribology is the science and engineering of interacting surfaces in relative motion. It includes the study and application of the principles of friction, lubrication and wear. Tribology is a branch of mechanical engineering and materials science.


Mixing two oils together because you think it is cool doesn't make you a practicing Tribologist. With all due respect of course.
 
This.

Man, I cleaned my greasy pots and pans yesterday with plain water. Wow was the water clean when I was done! That's a great way to clean pans, using cold, plain water.

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
Man, yesterday I was over at Dads house. Checked his Ryobi Briggs 6.5HP OHV lawnmower over, checked oil(last changed myself in 2009 with ACCEL ND30)and it was barely Brown and just a millimeter above FULL. I asked my Dad what he had been topping it off with, since this Lawn mower gets used Alot in dirty, Hot environments(Dry, dusty Rental lawns),..and he said he hasnt even checked it. I have had Good results in my own Small engines with various brands of ND30 as well. Thats why I continue to use it.


Of course the oil was barely brown, it doesn't have any freakin' detergents to clean anything!!! How's it going to get dirty???
crazy2.gif
 
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