No wonder Norway drivers bought more Electric Cars

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Of all the total new vehicle sold in Norway since 2011 28% are PEVs(Plugin Electric Vehicle), because there are so many incentives for owning a PEV in Norway.
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Norway has added the world’s largest DC fast-charging station to its achievements, up there with being the largest global market for plug-in electrified vehicles as a share of new vehicle sales. A fast-charging site capable of charging 28 electric cars opened Thursday in Nebbenes, a rural town about 40 miles from Oslo. The charging station hosts all three of the DC fast charging systems available on the global market – CHAdeMO, Combined Charging Standard (CCS), and Supercharger. Norway prides itself on being the strongest global PEV market. In a comparison of total new vehicle sales since the launch of the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt, Norway has dominated sales. From 2011 through June 2016, Norway had 28.4 percent of its new vehicle sales made up of PEVs, followed by California at three percent and the U.S. market at 0.75 percent, according to HybridCars.com.
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While Norway’s transport ministry has backed away from banning all fossil-fuel vehicles, the government is still committed to growing PEV sales. PEV drivers pay no road tax, registration fee, sales tax, or value-added tax. Electric car drivers can also tap into free public parking, free public charging, free ferry transport, and are exempt from tolls on roads, bridges, and tunnels. Finding more DC fast charging stations should also help boost enthusiasm for PEV ownership.
http://www.hybridcars.com/norway-opens-worlds-largest-and-most-diverse-dc-fast-charging-station/ The linked article states: "free public charging", DC fast-charging(CHAdeMO and Combined Charging Standard (CCS)) is free too ? Supercharger is free for Tesla vehicles(Model S and Model X), not sure about Model 3 when it comes to Norway sometime in 2019(?) or later.
 
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Wow, let the taxpayer pay for your "free" charging and people adopt it en masse ? Who would have thought that Human behaviour would do that ? Wonder what the difference would be if it wasn't someone else's money paying for it ? What's the delivery date on your S again ?
 
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Roads and bridges are free. Tax credits give free stuff. I have to subsidize other people's kids. But we're outraged about free charge stations?
Yeah, I love subsidizing other folk kids ...
 
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Norway is one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world is it not? Ergo - you may not be paying to charge it right there at the charge point, but it isn't exactly "free"...
 
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Wow, let the taxpayer pay for your "free" charging and people adopt it en masse ? Who would have thought that Human behaviour would do that ? Wonder what the difference would be if it wasn't someone else's money paying for it ? What's the delivery date on your S again ?
This post is about Norway, their government can do whatever they want, nothing anyone outside Norway can do anything to change their policies. If there isn't any incentive or very limit incentives then PEV adoption would be like other European countries, which is very little. I knew about high PEV's sale in Norway a while ago but didn't know why people there love their PEV's so much, now I know why: it is the free stubs associate with PEV. Germany just announced some incentives for battery vehicle a month ago, ordered of BMW i3 went up substantial. No, I didn't order model S. It is too expensive and too big, I ordered model 3 and since I am in California I have higher priority than people in the East coast, but since I intend to have minimum to no option my queue may be lower than others outside California with full options. Anyone can criticize Norway government policy on PEV, but for Norwegians who own PEV they love all the free stubs. Question for you guys, if Federal and state and local governments give A, B, C, D ... free if you buy a plugin hybrid or an electric vehicle, would you refuse to accept those freebees ? Would you refuse to file the tax incentive of $7500 with Federal government ? If fast DC charger is installed free of charge from local utility company, do you refuse to have it install ? If the car is allowed to use HOV(High Occupant Vehicle) lane while driving alone, do you refuse to utilize it ? Currently many tax filers applied for free money with Federal government, one of the popular free money is mortgage interest with itemize deduction, if you can itemize and the result is pay less tax do you select standard deduction to pay more tax ? Remember you pay less tax then somebody will pay more tax or government needs to borrow money(and pay interest) to cover the mount you don't pay. As far as I know, everybody are selfish. If I can get something for nothing legally I will do it. If I can use itemize deduction to pay less tax I will do it, if I can drive a car by myself in HOV lane legally I will do it. If I charge my battery vehicle for free legally I will do it.
 
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Norway is a bit of an outlier in that StatOil is the national oil co. They are a major exporter of North Sea oil. They love the world to think they are green and environmental, but about 1/3 of their economy is built on oil revenues ... I have no beef with how we get to an electric fleet. And after riding in a Model S, I would not mind having one. But I'd need about an $80,000 subsidy to make it economical enough to buy one smile I believe in personal recycling and keeping good iron on the road and out of the scrap heap. Looking at the total energy budget from raw ore extraction to end of life recycling, it makes no sense to buy new if you are looking to save any part of the environment other than jobs ... Prolly the most environmentally conscious move is a used Gen I Prius with a new battery (making sure the old one is recycled). It's not a give away, but it is prolly the least energy intensive (total use + production) vehicle over the life of multiple owners and say 500,000 miles ... We really need some sharp pencils and spreadsheets to make real sense of this whole personal transport situation ...
 
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Keep in mind: 1. Norway has a population of 5 million people. The Greater Toronto Area, 6 million. 2. Norway uses a rather extensive hydro electric system to generate their power. 95% of it is generated via HE. This is clean, a great baseload and inexpensive. Perfect for charging EV's. 3. Average energy usage in Norway is 27MWh, which is very high (the highest) for a European nation (EU average is 7.4MWh). They also have the lowest electricity prices in Europe, so this isn't surprising. 4. Norway is 385,000sq Km/148,700sq Miles. The province of Newfoundland is 405,000sq Km/156,500sq Miles. The province of Quebec is 1,542,000sq Km/595,400sq miles. These sorts of programs are more viable in small European countries that are the size of North American states/provinces. As I said in another thread, I'd have no problem buying a Model S if our hydro prices were what they were in 2006. Which they would be had we invested in the expansion of Darlington rather than wind and solar.
 
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I'd totally be replacing one of our cars with a BEV if those incentives were in place. Free parking and charging downtown or at area public facilities? Goodbye, ICE! Although that money has to come from somewhere, and the gravy train can't last forever. But, replacing many ICE-powered vehicles and beginning to remove transportation as a source of air pollution in urban areas will reduce respiratory illnesses, which does save quite a bit of money on healthcare and costs associated with reduced productivity caring for a sick child or elderly family member instead of working.
 
The minute they get a good choice of EVs in the $30k-40k price range that can go 300 miles on a charge and charge up in 15 minutes or less, I'm in. That's a big bill to fill but with they will get there. I'm tired of coolant flushes, tune ups, oil changes and everything else that comes with an internal combustion engine powered car!
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Keep in mind: 1. Norway has a population of 5 million people. The Greater Toronto Area, 6 million. 2. Norway uses a rather extensive hydro electric system to generate their power. 95% of it is generated via HE. This is clean, a great baseload and inexpensive. Perfect for charging EV's. 3. Average energy usage in Norway is 27MWh, which is very high (the highest) for a European nation (EU average is 7.4MWh). They also have the lowest electricity prices in Europe, so this isn't surprising. 4. Norway is 385,000sq Km/148,700sq Miles. The province of Newfoundland is 405,000sq Km/156,500sq Miles. The province of Quebec is 1,542,000sq Km/595,400sq miles. These sorts of programs are more viable in small European countries that are the size of North American states/provinces. As I said in another thread, I'd have no problem buying a Model S if our hydro prices were what they were in 2006. Which they would be had we invested in the expansion of Darlington rather than wind and solar.
I agree, the incentives are easier to manage with a small country with small population. My post is about people will change their lifestyle if there is enough incentives. Whatever someone may call this incentive, be it welfare or handout or ..., people in the position that can take advantage of the handouts legally they will. Below is an article about German gives some incentives for buying EV. Same as with Norway, sale of BMW i3 is rising.
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[b]German EV Incentives Boost BMW i3 Sales[/[b] Sales of the BMW i3 in the German home market have increased significantly since the German government decided this spring to offer a $4,400 incentive to buyers of electric cars. Previously, Germany was one of the few countries that lacked any EV incentives at all. The BMW i3 is now available with a more powerful battery that extends its range to 114 miles — about one third more than the i3 with the original battery is capable of. Citing BMW company sources, German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung says orders for then new version of the i3 have risen “many times over” compared to orders for the original car. The newer version offers significantly more range for only a small increase in price — about $1,200. The BMW i3 with upgraded battery starts at $44, 595. It is available in the eye catching Protonic Blue that debuted on the i8 hybrid electric sports car earlier this year for an additional charge. BMW now has 5,000 orders for the new version of the i3, of which about 1,000 are from customers in Germany.
http://gas2.org/2016/07/12/german-ev-incentives-bmw-i3-sales/
Originally Posted By: double vanos
The minute they get a good choice of EVs in the $30k-40k price range that can go 300 miles on a charge and charge up in 15 minutes or less, I'm in. That's a big bill to fill but with they will get there. I'm tired of coolant flushes, tune ups, oil changes and everything else that comes with an internal combustion engine powered car!
I think it is possible that around 2025 you may be able to buy an EV with 300 miles range at less than $40k. Now, the problem is charge a 70-80 KWh from almost zero to 80% in 15 minutes is hard to achieve. You need super-fast DC charger with 800-1000 volts and the equipment on the car to handle that much power in 15 minutes is expensive. VW group are talking about 800 volt DC charger and 15 minutes charge time for some of their cars under development. But, technology is advancing fast may be someone will figuring out how to make these super-fast DC charger cheap enough to be able to commercialize it. On the other hand, driving for about 3-4 hours then take a 30-45 minutes breaks to charge the battery isn't too bad.[/b][/b]
 
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EV's will last a long time in Norway since it's so cold. Batteries last longer in cold climates than warm climates. In much of the southern US, Mexico, Taiwan, Mediterranean region, anywhere near the equator, Teslas might need a new motor within only 60k, whereas Nordic/Alaska/Canadian Teslas might be as reliable as traditional cars.
 
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I have to subsidize other people's kids.
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Yeah, I love subsidizing other folk kids.
Just out of curiosity, did either of you guys go to public school? If you did, you're not subsidizing other peoples kids to get an education, you're REPAYING YOUR OWN education. And honestly, paying for your neighbors kids to get a decent education will hopefully help prevent them from being either tax burdens or criminals in their future. So stop [censored] about the lax levys on your home. If you don't like it, sell your house, and rent instead. BC.
 
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There is always a cost to be payed when altering the market, and it's rarely payed by the politicians that do it. Just look at the German photo-voltaic debacle as one example. Removing arbitrary sums of money from productive people and allocating arbitrary sums of money to bolster entirely arbitrary "feel good" policies will not work out well...
 
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
There is always a cost to be payed when altering the market, and it's rarely payed by the politicians that do it. Just look at the German photo-voltaic debacle as one example. Removing arbitrary sums of money from productive people and allocating arbitrary sums of money to bolster entirely arbitrary "feel good" policies will not work out well...
Monetary cost is a zero sump, some get benefit(s) then someone else are paying for it. But the environment isn't a zero sump, Norway electricity are mostly clean with lot of Hydro and with more EV they should pollute less.
 
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Tempest
There is always a cost to be payed when altering the market, and it's rarely payed by the politicians that do it. Just look at the German photo-voltaic debacle as one example. Removing arbitrary sums of money from productive people and allocating arbitrary sums of money to bolster entirely arbitrary "feel good" policies will not work out well...
Monetary cost is a zero sump, some get benefit(s) then someone else are paying for it. But the environment isn't a zero sump, Norway electricity are mostly clean with lot of Hydro and with more EV they should pollute less.
Yes, but as I posted earlier, they are an incredibly unique scenario given that basically all of their power is generated via hydro electric.
 
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Monetary cost is a zero sump, some get benefit(s) then someone else are paying for it. But the environment isn't a zero sump, Norway electricity are mostly clean with lot of Hydro and with more EV they should pollute less.
"Money" is just a tool used to allocate resources. Those resources (material, labor, energy) are the real cost (as opposed to price) of an economy. Arbitrarily allocating resources to make politicians feel good about themselves never works out for the people actually footing the bill... If there were real world, market driven reasons to buy EV, then the government shouldn't need to steel money from one person and hand it to another to entice people to buy them.
 
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Monetary cost is a zero sump, some get benefit(s) then someone else are paying for it. But the environment isn't a zero sump, Norway electricity are mostly clean with lot of Hydro and with more EV they should pollute less.
"Money" is just a tool used to allocate resources. Those resources (material, labor, energy) are the real cost (as opposed to price) of an economy. Arbitrarily allocating resources to make politicians feel good about themselves never works out for the people actually footing the bill... If there were real world, market driven reasons to buy EV, then the government shouldn't need to steel money from one person and hand it to another to entice people to buy them.
Your point of let market decides the winner(s), this does have some valid points. But, if environment is critical then let market decides winner may not work. Without incentives and with much limitations not many people will buy any EV, then the environment will be as dirty as it was. Now, what are the benefits of cleaner air ? How much value do you think if Norway reduces COx by 20-30% ? That is the question the government of Norway tries to answer with the incentives they give to EV buyers. The original post is about people behavior can be changed with enough incentives, some will take a risk if the incentives is adequate to them.
 
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