wemay
Site Donor 2023
For those who do this, what's the rationale?
New vehicle, early first oil change.
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1. Remove any leftover manufacturing contamination / wear metals
2. Install higher quality filter and oil.
2. Install higher quality filter and oil.
Originally Posted By: NO2
1. Remove any leftover manufacturing contamination / wear metals
2. Install higher quality filter and oil.
+1
1. Remove any leftover manufacturing contamination / wear metals
2. Install higher quality filter and oil.
+1
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Thanks for the link.
I left the FF in my Accord for 10k miles. Just hit 40k and did the 4th oil change on it. Doesn't burn/use a drip between changes, sees redline daily, and still gets 35mpg. Never have done early changes on the vehicles but I always do them on the motorcycles.
I like to do it around the 1000 mile mark. I believe it removes metallic fines and any debris that might be leftover from the manufacturing process.
It’s a personal preference. Many here leave the factory fill in for the full interval with no issues.
It’s a personal preference. Many here leave the factory fill in for the full interval with no issues.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I've never done it but am interested.
Originally Posted By: wemay
I've never done it but am interested.
While machining and assembly processes have advanced, a engine still breaks in over the first 500 miles or so. In my estimation that means metallic fines. The oil filter will catch most of them but I’ve seen sparkles in my first oil changes that tell me the small ones stayed in circulation.
I found some type of baked sand particles in a Toyota Tacoma first change. I assume it was casting leftover. I was glad to get it out.
I've never done it but am interested.
While machining and assembly processes have advanced, a engine still breaks in over the first 500 miles or so. In my estimation that means metallic fines. The oil filter will catch most of them but I’ve seen sparkles in my first oil changes that tell me the small ones stayed in circulation.
I found some type of baked sand particles in a Toyota Tacoma first change. I assume it was casting leftover. I was glad to get it out.
Originally Posted By: wemay
For those who do this, what's the rationale?
Things I know to be factual..
the machining of engines and castings is one of the dirtiest processes there is in the machining industry, lots of swarf and leftover debris even after cleaning. Ford had an issue on modern engines with swarf being caught in between the head gasket causing leaks.
Add to that the normal wear metal shedding from the engines parts mating together. The larger particles are usually harmless and fall to the bottom of the pan without circulating, they will most likely not pass through any oil filter if they did.
The smaller particles you probably wont see may or may not be caught by the oil filter and may circulate until removed with the old oil.
In either case all particles will go through the oil pump which is pre filter and may cause some scoring, these will probably not have a significant effect on overall engine life but personally I rather not it.
Honda had a paper out in the mid- late 90's IIRC that said explicitly that the are recommending longer intervals of new engine oil changes to "appear" more environmentally friendly. VW pulled a similar stunt back in the 60's with longer OCI to "appear" lower maintenance friendly.
Strangely enough in other parts of the world where engine longevity and harsher operating conditions exist these same companies still recommend 1000km (600mi) OCI for the first service.
Companies do not seem to concerned what happens to the car or drive train after the warranty period is over and regardless of if changed early or not the engines seem to make that mark with no issues or at least any that have become noticeable.
The usual comments like " my engine has 200K on it and I followed directions" is not a valid argument.
Even engines machines on the same line are still machined as an individual with different tooling, some tooling may be older and less sharp than the one next to it. You can guess which one is "dirtier" but you will never know which car got it from machine B for example unless you have access to the factory VIN and assembly database.
In this way the exotics and high end cars with hand assembled engines have the edge, eg Aston Martin even has the guys name that built the engine on a plate. IIRC AMG, RR, Maybach, Bently have one also, possibly others.
On shared gearbox applications an early OCI is mandatory on non unit engines, it may not be mandatory but oil is cheap and if I can prevent any wear at all even in the oil pump to me its well worth it. JMHO
For those who do this, what's the rationale?
Things I know to be factual..
the machining of engines and castings is one of the dirtiest processes there is in the machining industry, lots of swarf and leftover debris even after cleaning. Ford had an issue on modern engines with swarf being caught in between the head gasket causing leaks.
Add to that the normal wear metal shedding from the engines parts mating together. The larger particles are usually harmless and fall to the bottom of the pan without circulating, they will most likely not pass through any oil filter if they did.
The smaller particles you probably wont see may or may not be caught by the oil filter and may circulate until removed with the old oil.
In either case all particles will go through the oil pump which is pre filter and may cause some scoring, these will probably not have a significant effect on overall engine life but personally I rather not it.
Honda had a paper out in the mid- late 90's IIRC that said explicitly that the are recommending longer intervals of new engine oil changes to "appear" more environmentally friendly. VW pulled a similar stunt back in the 60's with longer OCI to "appear" lower maintenance friendly.
Strangely enough in other parts of the world where engine longevity and harsher operating conditions exist these same companies still recommend 1000km (600mi) OCI for the first service.
Companies do not seem to concerned what happens to the car or drive train after the warranty period is over and regardless of if changed early or not the engines seem to make that mark with no issues or at least any that have become noticeable.
The usual comments like " my engine has 200K on it and I followed directions" is not a valid argument.
Even engines machines on the same line are still machined as an individual with different tooling, some tooling may be older and less sharp than the one next to it. You can guess which one is "dirtier" but you will never know which car got it from machine B for example unless you have access to the factory VIN and assembly database.
In this way the exotics and high end cars with hand assembled engines have the edge, eg Aston Martin even has the guys name that built the engine on a plate. IIRC AMG, RR, Maybach, Bently have one also, possibly others.
On shared gearbox applications an early OCI is mandatory on non unit engines, it may not be mandatory but oil is cheap and if I can prevent any wear at all even in the oil pump to me its well worth it. JMHO
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The oil filter will catch most of them but I’ve seen sparkles in my first oil changes that tell me the small ones stayed in circulation.
"Lapping oil".
I do the first oil change between 1000 and 2000 miles. Those engines seems to always run strong and don't use much oil at all ... and of course the way they are "broken-in" has something to do with that also.
The oil filter will catch most of them but I’ve seen sparkles in my first oil changes that tell me the small ones stayed in circulation.
"Lapping oil".
I do the first oil change between 1000 and 2000 miles. Those engines seems to always run strong and don't use much oil at all ... and of course the way they are "broken-in" has something to do with that also.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The oil filter will catch most of them but I’ve seen sparkles in my first oil changes that tell me the small ones stayed in circulation.
"Lapping oil".
I do the first oil change between 1000 and 2000 miles. Those engines seems to always run strong and don't use much oil at all ... and of course the way they are "broken-in" has something to do with that also.
I totally agree. That is a huge part of engine longevity. While I am only a sample of one, I have never had a engine consume oil.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The oil filter will catch most of them but I’ve seen sparkles in my first oil changes that tell me the small ones stayed in circulation.
"Lapping oil".
I do the first oil change between 1000 and 2000 miles. Those engines seems to always run strong and don't use much oil at all ... and of course the way they are "broken-in" has something to do with that also.
I totally agree. That is a huge part of engine longevity. While I am only a sample of one, I have never had a engine consume oil.
Originally Posted By: NO2
1. Remove any leftover manufacturing contamination / wear metals 2. Install higher quality filter and oil.
Exactly.
Just changed out the factory fill and filter on my 2018 Jeep GC at 1,865 miles. Went from the blend installed at the factory to PP. Would have done it around 1,500 miles but issues got in the way.
1. Remove any leftover manufacturing contamination / wear metals 2. Install higher quality filter and oil.
Exactly.
Just changed out the factory fill and filter on my 2018 Jeep GC at 1,865 miles. Went from the blend installed at the factory to PP. Would have done it around 1,500 miles but issues got in the way.
Last edited:
I think Trav summed it up nicely. For me old habits die hard, I want that crap out of my engine early. In the grand scheme of things, and the cost of a vehicle, an extra oil change or two is not going to break the bank for me. As far as the environment is concerned, I recycle the oil.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I'm at 650 miles. Weather permitting, I'll change it tomorrow since i received the GTX Magnatec today. Thanks for the insightful comments.
Originally Posted By: wemay
I'm at 650 miles. Weather permitting, I'll change it tomorrow since i received the GTX Magnatec today. Thanks for the insightful comments.
Smart move in my book.
I'm at 650 miles. Weather permitting, I'll change it tomorrow since i received the GTX Magnatec today. Thanks for the insightful comments.
Smart move in my book.
Changed my oil at a bit over 5k on first oci. Changed again at 12k. From then on I followed oci meter down to 20 percent. Swapped to 0w20 Castrol MAGNATEC with LUBEGARD Biotech.
We've bought six new cars over the past thirty four years.
The first four got 1K and then 3K drains from new.
The last two were run to the recommended OCI on the factory fill.
Wanna guess how much oil my 93K '12 Accord uses after a first run of 8700 miles on the factory fill?
I still pull the dipstick every now and then, although there's little reason to.
The newer Forester is still too young to tell, but it went 6K on the factory fill.
I think that early drains are an artifact of the remote past, or at least that's been my recent experience.
Early drains are a little like 3K OCIs in that neither are necessary these days and neither will turn a pig's ear design into a silk purse when it comes to durability and long-term engine health.
The first four got 1K and then 3K drains from new.
The last two were run to the recommended OCI on the factory fill.
Wanna guess how much oil my 93K '12 Accord uses after a first run of 8700 miles on the factory fill?
I still pull the dipstick every now and then, although there's little reason to.
The newer Forester is still too young to tell, but it went 6K on the factory fill.
I think that early drains are an artifact of the remote past, or at least that's been my recent experience.
Early drains are a little like 3K OCIs in that neither are necessary these days and neither will turn a pig's ear design into a silk purse when it comes to durability and long-term engine health.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
We've bought six new cars over the past thirty four years.
The first four got 1K and then 3K drains from new.
The last two were run to the recommended OCI on the factory fill.
Wanna guess how much oil my 93K '12 Accord uses after a first run of 8700 miles on the factory fill?
It's all that extra run time on the "fine lapping oil" that really gets the parts to fit nicely together.
We've bought six new cars over the past thirty four years.
The first four got 1K and then 3K drains from new.
The last two were run to the recommended OCI on the factory fill.
Wanna guess how much oil my 93K '12 Accord uses after a first run of 8700 miles on the factory fill?
It's all that extra run time on the "fine lapping oil" that really gets the parts to fit nicely together.
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