New Member, Power System Operator, AMA

[MVAR]

Hello BITOG community. I've been lurking this forum for at least a decade but decided to join a few days ago. Made a few posts in one of @OVERKILL threads and there seemed to be a bit of interest in power system operations so I decided to make an AMA. Was going to do this a couple days ago but got busy helping my in-laws move (they purchased a house around the corner from my family to have everyone closer together).

I'll get a few things out of the way to get things going:
Cars:
2012 GMC Canyon 2.9/auto. PuP 5/30, Amsoil SS trans fluid, Amsoil Severe Gear 75/90
2013 Ford Fusion 2.0 EB(wife's car). PuP 5/30(with HPL EC and switching to HPL PCMO 5/30), Amsoil SS trans fluid
1966 Ford Bronco 170" I6, 3spd man. Amsoil Z-Rod 20/50, Amsoil manual transmission & gear oil 75/90 for both.

I've been in utilities since 2001. Started off in power plant construction traveling the West Coast. Became a power plant operator in January of 2007 at a natural gas fired steam turbine facility. Initial plant was scheduled to be decommissioned in 2013 so I moved on to an opportunity at a combustion turbine facility in 2012. Became a lead operator in 2013. After a sale of the facility to an oil company who signed a 2yr contract to keep the facilities purchased online I decided to get my NERC system operator license and move onto power system operations as power plants were becoming an unstable career choice in CA. In 2016 I took a position with a large NorCal utility as an apprentice transmission system operator. Finished the program early and decided (very early on) that I wasn't going to stay at that entity due to the excessive amount of overtime (>1,000hrs/yr to start) and a few other reasons. In 2018 I took a position as a water & power dispatcher scheduling hydroelectric generators & pumping plants into the energy market. Became a shift supervisor (senior dispatcher) in 2020 and have remained in this position since.

These positions have given me experience in several areas of the bulk electric system. From generation to reliability to market operations. I'm willing to answer questions that have public information available but realize there are limitations to what can be disclosed. When appropriate, I will attempt to direct those interested to publicly available information for their own further information gathering.

So again, welcome BITOG community. This is a great forum with a plethora of information available. Whenever I've been curious about something, the vast majority of the time I was able to find it here (lubrication or filter related obviously). I'm currently working 12hr night shifts through Sunday morning so I won't be responding to questions during the daytime for obvious reasons.

 

[OVERKILL]

Thanks for the intro! Great to have you here

 

[ctechbob]

Ever since reading the gov reports about the 2003 blackout I've had a strange fascination with power transmission and the gigantic machine it is.

Welcome!!

(I still struggle with understanding reactive power for some reason)

 

[MVAR]

Thanks for the intro! Great to have you here

It's great to finally create an account here.

Any questions you have? Quebec is a bit unique as far as interconnections go. Technically it's part of the eastern interconnection but is operated as it's own (Like ERCOT/TRE).

 

[MVAR]

Ever since reading the gov reports about the 2003 blackout I've had a strange fascination with power transmission and the gigantic machine it is.

Welcome!!

(I still struggle with understanding reactive power for some reason)

Here is the NERC report on the NE blackout of 2003:

https://www.nerc.com/pa/rrm/ea/August%2014%202003%20Blackout%20Investigation%20DL/NERC_Final_Blackout_Report_07_13_04.pdf

 

[ctechbob]

Here is the NERC report on the NE blackout of 2003:

https://www.nerc.com/pa/rrm/ea/August%2014%202003%20Blackout%20Investigation%20DL/NERC_Final_Blackout_Report_07_13_04.pdf

Yep, that's one of the ones I actually have had on my computer desktop for years now. I go back in and read it from time-to-time.

 

[MVAR]

Ever since reading the gov reports about the 2003 blackout I've had a strange fascination with power transmission and the gigantic machine it is.

Welcome!!

(I still struggle with understanding reactive power for some reason)

You picked up on the username lol.

What would you like to know about reactive power?

 

[ctechbob]

You picked up on the username lol.

What would you like to know about reactive power?

Good question. I guess what I struggle to grasp is, especially reading those reports, they were 'running out' of reactive power during the day when the grid collapsed. I know that capacitor banks can be used to correct for that, but what I don't get is where in the flip it comes from on the generation side. The reports make it sound like there's just a setting on the genny's that you can twist and up come the VAR's.

Don't know if that makes any sense or not. Like I said, my brain struggles with it, but I understand 3 phase power and the like just fine.

 

[OVERKILL]

It's great to finally create an account here.

Any questions you have? Quebec is a bit unique as far as interconnections go. Technically it's part of the eastern interconnection but is operated as it's own (Like ERCOT/TRE).

Yeah, Quebec (vertically integrated) is the same setup as the former Ontario Hydro (now broken-up). It's a market participant in the sense that it buys/sells power, but this has no effect on its own operations internally and the price of power.

I have a dear friend who is a former grid operator for Ontario Hydro (later the IESO) that has told me quite a bit about the good old days before the market.

 

[MVAR]

Good question. I guess what I struggle to grasp is, especially reading those reports, they were 'running out' of reactive power during the day when the grid collapsed. I know that capacitor banks can be used to correct for that, but what I don't get is where in the flip it comes from on the generation side. The reports make it sound like there's just a setting on the genny's that you can twist and up come the VAR's.

Don't know if that makes any sense or not. Like I said, my brain struggles with it, but I understand 3 phase power and the like just fine.

Ever since reading the gov reports about the 2003 blackout I've had a strange fascination with power transmission and the gigantic machine it is.

Welcome!!

(I still struggle with understanding reactive power for some reason)

I'll just give a very basic answer at this time and can elaborate if further explanation is needed.

I've had several instructors explain VAR in ways that never made sense to me. The easiest for me was understanding that the field of an AC induction motor consumes VAR. Other consumers, say incandescent lights, do not consume VAR. So I relate VAR consumption with induction motors mostly (I'll leave out power system/line consumption for now).

VAR can also be thought of as the supportive leg of the power triangle(it's the vertical leg). VAR is used in power systems to control voltage. More VAR's the higher the voltage & the inverse. Spinning generators create VAR by increasing their terminal voltage. Once the torque from the prime mover has been established for MW output, terminal voltage is then adjusted above or below a near unity power factor and controlled within the units D Curve capabilities. Generators are the primary source of reactive power on the grid and with the AVR in automatic, are considered a dynamic reactive resource. Other common reactive sources are:

Shunt Capacitors (static)
Shunt Reactors (static)
Static VAR Compensators (dynamic)
Synchronous Condensers (dynamic)
Thyristor Switching Stations (dynamic)


This is a very oversimplification but gets the gist out of the questions needed response.

 

[MVAR]

Yeah, Quebec (vertically integrated) is the same setup as the former Ontario Hydro (now broken-up). It's a market participant in the sense that it buys/sells power, but this has no effect on its own operations internally and the price of power.

I have a dear friend who is a former grid operator for Ontario Hydro (later the IESO) that has told me quite a bit about the good old days before the market.

I entered utilities not long after deregulation in CA so have spent my career playing "catchup" with the rest of the state and its "growing pains" to continually adapt to changing market conditions.

 

[MVAR]

Good question. I guess what I struggle to grasp is, especially reading those reports, they were 'running out' of reactive power during the day when the grid collapsed. I know that capacitor banks can be used to correct for that, but what I don't get is where in the flip it comes from on the generation side. The reports make it sound like there's just a setting on the genny's that you can twist and up come the VAR's.

Don't know if that makes any sense or not. Like I said, my brain struggles with it, but I understand 3 phase power and the like just fine.

I should probably add that when a power system "runs out" of reactive power, you end up going past the "knee of the curve". This is the point of voltage collapse. You can see on here that the curve quickly returns as it collapses. Adding capacitors & additional reactive power will extend the knee & flatten the curve but that can lead to dangerous situations:

 

[MVAR]

I've been reading through some older posts about CA utilities & peoples view that they are making money from the "free" power supplied by residential PV systems.

Public Utilities DO NOT make money from power sales. Public Utilities make their income by a set percentage of return from investment into the grid. This percentage is set yearly by the CPUC. So if a public utility spends a billion dollars on grid updates & the CPUC grants a 10% rate, the utility will make 100 million dollars.

Public utilities are also forced by the state to make certain power contracts that drive up costs. Local utility districts (SMUD/SVP/REU/etc...) are allowed to let their current contracts expire prior to having to negotiate new contracts meeting current standards. That is a large reason for the disparity in current pricing.

The more mandates for EV charging stations & ownership as well as electrification of home appliances will increase the need for distribution & transmission system upgrades. This will further raise the price of power.

Just wanted to clear up a misconception I believe a few posters here have on public utility billing.

 

[Snagglefoot]

On the topic of power generation, here is the status of power generation in the province of Alberta. TNG is total net generation. MC is maximum capability. This snap shot was a 7:00 just as solar started to kick in for the day. Coal is on its way out and will be completely phased out by year end, replaced with natural gas. The wind capacity is pretty large but only if it’s windy. Alas. All numbers are MW.

 

[OVERKILL]

On the topic of power generation, here is the status of power generation in the province of Alberta. TNG is total net generation. This snap shot was a 7:00 just as solar stated to kick in for the day. Coal is on its way out and will be completely phased out by year end, replaced with natural gas. The wind capacity is pretty large but only if it’s windy. Alas. All numbers are MW.

View attachment 170703

If you follow ReliableAB on twitter, they post a great chart, looks like this:

 

[zzyzzx]

How well does being a Power System Operator pay?

 

[MVAR]

On the topic of power generation, here is the status of power generation in the province of Alberta. TNG is total net generation. MC is maximum capability. This snap shot was a 7:00 just as solar started to kick in for the day. Coal is on its way out and will be completely phased out by year end, replaced with natural gas. The wind capacity is pretty large but only if it’s windy. Alas. All numbers are MW.

View attachment 170703

Even though Alberta is in WECC (like myself) I’m not very familiar with their current asset mix. Your province has undergone some major changes lately even in the Reliability Coordinator position. I believe you’re on your 3rd Reliability Coordinator since 2018 & are now supplying the RC duties internally.

Just from speaking with a friend from AB who’s a power plant manager, I was under the assumption you guys were mainly NG combustion turbines & supplemented by a fairly diverse fleet of generators.

AB always looks to be well capable to handle it’s own internal load without having to rely on heavy imports according to the annual NERC reports. I’ll look one up this evening & post it. I just woke up so bare with me as my eyes adjust & brain starts to work after a coffee or two

 

[MVAR]

How well does being a Power System Operator pay?

That’ll depend greatly on the area you’re in & what desk you’re working.

In CA the lowest paying entity I’m aware of compensates in the neighborhood of $60-65/hr. The highest is close to $130/hr with the average falling in the $80-95/hr range.

One of my dispatchers recently put his 2wk notice in. He & his family are relocating to Idaho. The position he took was a transmission desk & I think they’re in the $62-80/hr range from bottom step to top step.

I interviewed with ERCOT several years ago. I’ll just say that when compensation became the topic I politely ended the interview & was fairly upset for wasting the previous hour of my time.

Where most operators make the majority of their income is overtime. At least in CA, operations seems to be an old person field & we have a terrible time recruiting young people. I just turned 46 a few days ago & am the youngest shift supervisor at my entity by over a decade. I also supervise dispatchers in their mid 60’s & can count on one hand the number of dispatchers younger than myself.

It’s not a profession to get rich but you will not be too stressed to provide for your family.

 

[OVERKILL]

How well does being a Power System Operator pay?

I know the nuclear plant operator roles here in Ontario pay extremely well, like upwards of $300K a year.

 

[MVAR]

I know the nuclear plant operator roles here in Ontario pay extremely well, like upwards of $300K a year.

I was leaving the overtime totals out but you’re correct. One of my friends & former coworkers cleared 400 last year. I didn’t come near that but had much more time off than he did.