New Amsoil European Viscosities

[Pablo]

That's an opinion which is irrelevant to the requirements of the cert in question. So again. If the 0w30 doesn't meet the min TBN required of LL01FE then?????

It's not subjective, so glad you edited your response.

I answered your question. You asked me how I squared it to use your words.

It almost seems like some are more interested in playing "gotcha" than really thinking and discussing why a well known, now older and established blender would deviate from a specification. The people who compose the specifications are not God. They are not perfect.

As I stated before, if you want to just stick with a specification, why even discuss it? Just buy the oil that does.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

It's not subjective, so glad you edited your response.

I answered your question. You asked me how I squared it to use your words.

It almost seems like some are more interested in playing "gotcha" than really thinking and discussing why a well known, now older and established blender would deviate from a specification. The people who compose the specifications are not God. They are not perfect.

You are an Amsoil rep after all so are you as a rep saying it doesn't matter rather than saying there may be an error? Their advertising claims don't matter? Is that your answer to what simply could be a typo in an advertisement?

As I stated before, if you want to just stick with a specification, why even discuss it? Just buy the oil that does.

By that logic why even post the product if not to discuss it?

 

[drtyler]

You are a Amsoil rep afterall so are you as a rep saying it doesn't matter rather than saying there may be an error? Their advertising claims don't matter? Is that your answer to what simply could be a typo in an advertisement?


By that logic why even post the product if not to discuss it?

Maybe the TBN retention is superior and the oil is fine for the intervals required by cars using the LL-01FE spec.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Maybe the TBN retention is superior and the oil is fine for the intervals required by cars using the LL-01FE spec.

That may be true... But that doesn't mean it meets the spec.

 

[drtyler]

That may be true... But that doesn't mean it meets the spec.

Does Amsoil state that it meets the spec?

Seems they only recommend for use in vehicles that require LL-01FE, which is different.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Does Amsoil state that it meets the spec?

Seems they only recommend for use in vehicles that require LL-01FE, which is different.

Right. Edy's argument is that Amsoil first started this whole "recommended for" game and that it is dishonest. I don't know if I would go that far, but I wouldn't use oil like that myself. I've avoided some SOPUS products for the same reason. I want to know it is approved.

 

[The Critic]

Starting TBN is almost meaningless in 2023. While 8.4 v 9.5 seems like a relatively large difference, all motor oils drop to below 6-7 (most lower) within a few hundred miles and it means what? Not much at all.

Discussed here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-vs-zinc-in-engine-oils-lake-speed-jr.369667/

It's not subjective, so glad you edited your response.

I answered your question. You asked me how I squared it to use your words.

It almost seems like some are more interested in playing "gotcha" than really thinking and discussing why a well known, now older and established blender would deviate from a specification. The people who compose the specifications are not God. They are not perfect.

As I stated before, if you want to just stick with a specification, why even discuss it? Just buy the oil that does.

You raise valid points, but this is exactly why blenders playing the "meets or exceeds" game are putting themselves in a vulnerable position....especially if they are not being upfront about how their product outperforms the standards. On paper, this product does not meet the standards set forth by the creators of these specifications; it is a situation where Amsoil's approach "requires explanation".....except we don't see an addendum to the PDS with one.

We're in 2023 - consumers expect transparency and objective data upfront when making their purchasing decisions. That is the trend in a number of industries and across society. If your product's marketing approach does not encompass those values, you're already in a losing position. If Amsoil truly made a product that can outperform all of those OEM performance standards while not meeting some of the minimum required attributes, they should have added an FAQ (with the appropriate data and explanations) to the PDS.....otherwise we're going to make assumptions, and righteously so.

 

[edyvw]

Maybe the TBN retention is superior and the oil is fine for the intervals required by cars using the LL-01FE spec.

All cars that require LL01FE initially were requiring LL01. Most drivers use LL01. Enthusiasts community uses LL01 in new B46/48/58 engines.

This oil has HTHS of 3.5 which is required by MB229.51/52, VW504.00/507.00, Porsche C30. Wast majority of oils in this grade has HTHS 3.5 and NONE has LL01FE. New Castrol Edge 0W30 packaging has LL01 and “suitable “ for LL01FE. NO OTHER oil has combination of MB229.51/52, VW504.00/507.00 on one side and LL01FE on other. Only oil with LL01FE that has close to 3.5 HTHS is Motul Specific 5W30 with HTHS of 3.4.
So, since HTHS is 3.5, why not LL01? It is far more popular than LL01FE, and average drivers won’t shell this money for Amsoil. That is enthusiast community that actually prefers, as I said, LL01.

Which means, again, that they are just doing some predatory marketing OR, they were going with LL04, but made mistake listing LL01FE.

 

[edyvw]

Right. Edy's argument is that Amsoil first started this whole "recommended for" game and that it is dishonest. I don't know if I would go that far, but I wouldn't use oil like that myself. I've avoided some SOPUS products for the same reason. I want to know it is approved.

And problem with SOPUS is that actually they are approved, but list “meets and exceeds.” Which is insane.

 

[kschachn]

And problem with SOPUS is that actually they are approved, but list “meets and exceeds.” Which is insane.

Yes I call it “reverse obfuscation” and Castrol does it too. Fortunately it can be clarified for most approvals via published sheets.

 

[buster]

I agree that Amsoil should do a better job in this area. I'd still use their Euro oils. Amsoil is reputable and makes good oil. It's always been their marketing that turns people off unfortunately. They're getting better though IMO.

 

[SynOilFan]

Got my case of 0w-30 today.

VOA sample sent off. Will post in the appropriate forum hopefully on Tuesday for all that are interested.

 

[Thumper3]

Approvals aren't a revenue stream for European automakers. If a blender wants a approval they pay for the testing. Automakers aren't in the business of conducting tests free of charge for every blend which figuratively walks through the door.

Right, so one has to ask what the difference is between "meets and exceeds" and a stamped approval other than the blender paying money (assuming you trust the blender and more importantly can review the data either from said blender or from independent testing) If they see the value in that for sales to those that demand it. Meets or exceeds is not an exclusive AMSOIL thing, Castrol says the same thing.

It is entirely within the realm that a blender could make an oil that meets all a manufacturer requirements for approval but just decide the cost of the approval isn't worth it. That scene in Tommy Boy where they discuss the worthiness of a guarantee comes to mind.

That said, as has been pointed out when multiple specs are contradictory it's going to raise questions.

 

[buster]

Got my case of 0w-30 today.

VOA sample sent off. Will post in the appropriate forum hopefully on Tuesday for all that are interested.

What lab did you use? Just curious if it will have an oxidation value.

 

[SynOilFan]

Yes, it will have the oxidation number.

Oil Analyzers.

 

[kschachn]

Right, so one has to ask what the difference is between "meets and exceeds" and a stamped approval other than the blender paying money (assuming you trust the blender and more importantly can review the data either from said blender or from independent testing) If they see the value in that for sales to those that demand it. Meets or exceeds is not an exclusive AMSOIL thing, Castrol says the same thing.

It is entirely within the realm that a blender could make an oil that meets all a manufacturer requirements for approval but just decide the cost of the approval isn't worth it. That scene in Tommy Boy where they discuss the worthiness of a guarantee comes to mind.

That said, as has been pointed out when multiple specs are contradictory it's going to raise questions.

But the Castrol approvals can be verified against manufacturer’s lists. Castrol may be sloppy in their labeling and PDS but the proof is still there.

Approvals are the proof. Anything else is just speculation unless there is some trust in the blender.

 

[edyvw]

Right, so one has to ask what the difference is between "meets and exceeds" and a stamped approval other than the blender paying money (assuming you trust the blender and more importantly can review the data either from said blender or from independent testing) If they see the value in that for sales to those that demand it. Meets or exceeds is not an exclusive AMSOIL thing, Castrol says the same thing.

It is entirely within the realm that a blender could make an oil that meets all a manufacturer requirements for approval but just decide the cost of the approval isn't worth it. That scene in Tommy Boy where they discuss the worthiness of a guarantee comes to mind.

That said, as has been pointed out when multiple specs are contradictory it's going to raise questions.

Cost of approval when I was working for oil company was around 3,200 euros for VW504.00/507.00.
That was some 18 years ago. Let’s say it is 5,000 euros today. Problem?
Amsoil already has approved oils.
Company that lists LL01FE and VW504.00/507.00, MB229.51/52 ahod not be trusted. Unless they listed LL01FE instead of LL04.

Castrol is actually approved oil.

 

[loneryder]

Friday night fights!

 

[buster]

Cost of approval when I was working for oil company was around 3,200 euros for VW504.00/507.00.
That was some 18 years ago. Let’s say it is 5,000 euros today. Problem?
Amsoil already has approved oils.
Company that lists LL01FE and VW504.00/507.00, MB229.51/52 ahod not be trusted. Unless they listed LL01FE instead of LL04.

Castrol is actually approved oil.

So what would be the reason they don't opt for approval on the others?

 

[TiGeo]

This just seems like a labelling mistake/typo is my guess i.e. LL04 is what was supposed to go on there. I can't imagine not trusting that Amsoil oils are ok to use b/c they don't have the approvals....just like HPL, Redline, etc.