Need Advice On Initial Purchase

[The Critic]

Hey everyone,

I want to learn detailing as a new hobby. So, it's time for me to make that initial purchase and I am coming here to ask all of you for some advice.

Based on what I have read on this forum, autopia and others, I plan to purchase the following items:

(1) Flex XC3401 VRG
(1) Flex Bag
(2) Lake Country CCS Orange Pads
(2) Lake Country CCS White Pads
(1) Lake Country CCS Yellow Pad
(1) Lake Country CCS Black Pad

+ few microfiber towels..

Package is $319 (From Auto Detailing Solutions, but autogeek says they will pricematch)

(1) Meguiar's M105-- 32oz-- $28
(1) Meguiar's M205-- 32oz-- $30
(1) Wolfgang's Deep Gloss Paint Sealant-- 16oz-- $30
(2) Cobra Guzzler HD Waffle Weave Drying Towel 16X24-- $20 (BOGO)
(2) White/Yellow ShMITT Wash Mitt-- $22
(4) Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay-- $40 (BOGO)
(1) ONR-- 32 oz-- $16

Total for chemicals: $186 (from Autogeek)

So, all together it should be around $505.

I am still trying to decide between the Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant and less-expensive alternatives such as Poor Boy's EX-P and the Duragloss #105.

Also, how does my pad selection look? Should I get more pads? If so, what brand/model? Are the Hydroclear pads worth a look? What about the uber Flex pads? Remember, I only plan to detail my own car (Saturn sedan) and perhaps the family cars.

Thanks in advance!

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

I only plan to detail my own car (Saturn sedan) and perhaps the family cars.


Good plan, else I would have suggested insurance as another item to purchase.

 

[MKZman]

I prefer flat pads over CCS style especially with M105/M205. I have not used the Ubers but some people say the Orange uber is better than the Lake Country Orange. I plan to get some Uber oranges soon for my Flex. I traded most of my CCS pads.

I would also get more pads. I would recommend a minimum of 2 of any color (ideally 3) so you do not need to clean them as you go. For optimal work, you can use 2 to 3 when you a vehicle since pad cleanliness is needed for efficient polishing work. Also, accidents happen (get soiled by mistake, etc).

I like Wolfgang. It has a nice shiny look (does not hide anything like some other waxes and sealants) so paint needs to be good shape (you got the machine to fix that). The durability seems to be very good. I have not tried PB's.

I sure like my Flex - makes a big difference compared to my UDM. Polishes break down much easier with less fussiness on pad pressure etc. With the Flex just hold against the pad and guide. No need for high pressure.

 

[JHZR2]

Yes, extra pads, and some more GOOD microfiber towels. Get some waffle weave for drying and then some various others for removing residues. Hand pads, microfiber towel detergent, pad cleaner powder, two mitts at least (one for upper surfaces, one for the bottom/lower area where there is more grime). Id add a good soap, a 5-gal bucket and a grit guard. Youll want some pad lube, and perhaps some other sort of prepping chemical, like Klasse AIO or zaino AIO.

I personally have found the use of a RO polisher system to often be wasteful, as it is hard to het the pads in many tight areas on smaller cars, and thus you have to use hand pads anyway... Plus, it takes a lot of product to not have a "dry" pad. That is fine likely for a pro who perhaps can use pads over and over again on cleaned vehicles (with the same products in use over the course of the day), but not if youre doing one car.

Only on big vehicles with lots of open painted space (like minivans or trucks) do I see a real time advantage.

 

[bretfraz]

Have you used a Flex? Try to test drive one before you buy. I found them challenging to use compared to a rotary or PC. If you are going to use the M105/M205 process, the PC works fine. However, if I were buying a new machine today, I'd try the Meguiars G110v2. From what I've heard so far, its an improvement over the PC.

I agree you will need a lot more towels. The waffle weave's are only good for drying. You'll need a dozen or more 16x16 towels for various duties.

I'm sure the Wolfgang sealant is fine but it is going to be very similar to Poorboys or Duragloss or Rejex or 4 Star or whatever. I'm using Blackfire Wet Diamond and I like it. Still, nothing beats Zaino IMO.

 

[The Critic]

Thanks for the replies!

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Yes, extra pads, and some more GOOD microfiber towels.


What do you think of these:

http://www.autogeek.net/cobra-microfiber-towel-pack.html

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I personally have found the use of a RO polisher system to often be wasteful, as it is hard to het the pads in many tight areas on smaller cars, and thus you have to use hand pads anyway...


If I don't use a rotary, how would I do paint correction?

Originally Posted By: bretfraz
Have you used a Flex? Try to test drive one before you buy. I found them challenging to use compared to a rotary or PC. If you are going to use the M105/M205 process, the PC works fine. However, if I were buying a new machine today, I'd try the Meguiars G110v2. From what I've heard so far, its an improvement over the PC.


I've been told that the Flex 3401 is heads and shoulders above the Porter Cable. How does the Meguiars G110v2 fit into this? Are its capabilities somewhere between the two? Thanks.


Originally Posted By: bretfraz

I'm sure the Wolfgang sealant is fine but it is going to be very similar to Poorboys or Duragloss or Rejex or 4 Star or whatever. I'm using Blackfire Wet Diamond and I like it. Still, nothing beats Zaino IMO.



What are your thoughts on Duragloss #105? It seems like it would be a more economical choice for me.

 

[MKZman]

I find the comment that the Flex is difficult to use interesting. You have to put it into context.

It does require attention to guide but I find the overall effort less than a PC (insuring plenty of pressure on the head). With the flex you just need to be sure the pad is flat on paint. It is less tiring (vibration, noise) than the original PC/UDM, etc It definitely is a better experience (spend less time polishing) but I have not tried the XP/G110v2. The reviews seem to say it gets close to the Flex performance.

The downside of the flex DA (besides the initial cost) is that it cannot accommodate smaller pad sizes safely (5.5-in fit but no safety margin) so it may not work in some areas where a PC type polisher.

The choice of LSP is always a tough one since you have to rely on the comments from users who like a wide variety.

Budget guys (those wanting to get most from paying less) tend to like Collinite for its durability and price. If it has one complaint, it is ease of application.

The other choice is DG105 (have not used it) but I read conflicting comments on durability except those that also use DG AW and claim great durability (but then they are waxing it so I would expect that)

Wolfgang needs 12 hrs to cure (sounds like Zaino?) so consider that since it cannot get wet or dew (like from overnight).

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it will take a while after using several to figure out if looks is that important to YOU.

Some like that just waxed look -- some just want it to look clean. If you are going to be a regular detailer -wax then either use a detail spray or spray wax to maintain - it really does not matter what you use durability wise.

 

[bretfraz]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Thanks for the replies!


Originally Posted By: bretfraz
Have you used a Flex? Try to test drive one before you buy. I found them challenging to use compared to a rotary or PC. If you are going to use the M105/M205 process, the PC works fine. However, if I were buying a new machine today, I'd try the Meguiars G110v2. From what I've heard so far, its an improvement over the PC.


I've been told that the Flex 3401 is heads and shoulders above the Porter Cable. How does the Meguiars G110v2 fit into this? Are its capabilities somewhere between the two? Thanks.


Originally Posted By: bretfraz

I'm sure the Wolfgang sealant is fine but it is going to be very similar to Poorboys or Duragloss or Rejex or 4 Star or whatever. I'm using Blackfire Wet Diamond and I like it. Still, nothing beats Zaino IMO.



What are your thoughts on Duragloss #105? It seems like it would be a more economical choice for me.


You might have seen this but here's a thread at from Autopia on the G110v2, incl videos: http://www.autopia.org/forum/machine-polishing/125552-meguiars-new-g110-v2-lets-rock-roll-baby.html

A friend of mine has a G110v2 coming so I'll get to test drive it soon. If you are going to do the M105/M205 process, a PC or G110v2 will work fine. I like the idea of the Flex and I feel it's a well made machine. I just did not care for the experience and some of its limitations (pad size, cost) were deal-killers for me. Maybe you'll like it but I still recommend you trying one before buying, if possible.

As for sealants, I have not tried Duragloss 105 but I have used some of their other sealants. I was not impressed but they seemed OK. Duragloss has been hit & miss for me over the years so I don't use much of the product line. If you can get #105 for around $10, it might be worth it to try.

 

[RTexasF]

All My opinions from my experiences with the products:

I found the Flex DA incredibly easy to use from the first minute I picked it up, even on rock hard Mercedes and Audi paint. A marvelous machine in all respects. I prefer the optional side handle to the top mounted one for some work/angles. It is imperative that you lube the felt beneath the backing plate(on the back of it actually) and snug the backing plate bolt initially and each time you use it.

I suggest more orange and white pads, they will be your mainstays. I prefer Lake Country Flat pads over the CCS pads for what it's worth. The CCS pads were nothing special to me, just hype that was just that.....hype.

I have Wolfgang 3.0, Poorboy's EX-P, Duragloss #105. As durability goes DG #105 is the heads up winner. Wolfgang 3.0 is extremely easy to use and has the best overall look, warmer like a carnauba but short lived. My choice would be the DG #105 or #501. Poorboy's is quite good but durability was lacking. I consider poor durability (sealant) 3 months and good 6 months or more.

The Shmitt was a flash in the pan. I got a sample one and was far from impressed. For me a standard high quality mitt does a far better job and doesn't come unglued like the Shmitt did.

I have not had the opportunity to use either of the new Meguiar's polishes. I stick with Menzerna's line after using scads of others......wish I had bought Menzerna first.

In my opinion A-Geeks Cobra brand of towels are well, lousy. Poorboy's has a considerably better product choice in MF towels. I use the Cobra's for crud work like door sills, wheels, wheelwell arches etc.

I strongly suggest some Finish Kare #425 be added to the list, EXCEPTIONAL Quick detailer with gloss and slickness second to none.....and anti static also.

I bought ONR using it both as a rinseless wash and a quick detailer. Although many praise it I didn't care for it and gave it away. You may love it.

The clay @ $40 BOGO is a bit steep but it is a good product.

As others have said get many MF towels. I may go through as many as 20 when doing a car.

Best of luck with your purchases.

 

[The Critic]

Thanks RTexasF and bretfraz for the advice.

For now, I have decided to skip the Flex purchase so that I can do more research on the various options. In the meantime, I still want to purchase some wash/clay/seal products, so here are the products that I plan to purchase tomorrow:

From Autopia:

Cobra Guzzler HD Waffle Weave Drying Towel-- $19.99 for two
Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay-- $39.99 for four bars
Package of 3 Pinnacle Foam Wax Applicators-- $4.99
Duragloss #105-- $10.99 for 16oz bottle
Pinnacle XMT Speed Clay Lube-- $9.99 for two bottles

From Chemical Guys

Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Gloss-- $18.95 for one gallon
3" Thick Microfiber Wash Mitt-- $6.95
Microfiber Super Towel, Slick Branded, 16X16-- $17.95 for 12 pack
209g Gray Clay Bar medium-duty + 16oz spray of LUBER-- $22.95

What do you think of that as a starter kit for now?

 

[bretfraz]

That's a good basic starter list, but you have more than enough clay to last many years. You just need one bar and a bottle of detail spray. I'd skip all that stuff and buy the Mothers or Meguiars kit at Pep Boys for under $20. That will get you started on clay.

I assume you have stuff like glass cleaner and tire dressing on hand? If so, I think you are set for now.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: bretfraz
That's a good basic starter list, but you have more than enough clay to last many years. You just need one bar and a bottle of detail spray. I'd skip all that stuff and buy the Mothers or Meguiars kit at Pep Boys for under $20. That will get you started on clay.

I assume you have stuff like glass cleaner and tire dressing on hand? If so, I think you are set for now.


I'm actually splitting the clay and the XMT detail spray with a friend, so I'm getting 3 bars of the Pinnacle and 1 bar of the grey stuff for myself.

Since I have never clayed the Saturn in 14 years, I assume that the grey (more aggressive clay) will be necessary since the contamination is very heavy. The contamination is heavy enough that applying sealant right now is like trying to spread sealant on sandpaper.

How many uses can I expect out of each bar of clay? The Pinnacle stuff is 4 oz, while the grey clay is 209. The pictures on the autogeek site show the person using an entire bar??

Thanks.

 

[The Critic]

Also, I meant autogeek, not autopia in post #1714660.

 

[MKZman]

Originally Posted By: The Critic

For now, I have decided to skip the Flex purchase so that I can do more research on the various options. In the meantime, I still want to purchase some wash/clay/seal products, so here are the products that I plan to purchase tomorrow:


If you are unsure, I would try to find a local detailer (easy to do on Autopia) to actually play with them.

 

[RTexasF]

A single clay bar can do multiple cars or just one large one (Suburban or maybe your Saturn) depending on how contaminated the paint is. Cut the bar in thirds. Knead it as required to expose a clean surface after completing a panel. Once there are no more clean areas save it for glass, hubcaps, wheels. If you drop (actually when)the clay on the ground chuck it and go get a new 1/3.

 

[hd2002]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Thanks RTexasF and bretfraz for the advice.

For now, I have decided to skip the Flex purchase so that I can do more research on the various options. In the meantime, I still want to purchase some wash/clay/seal products, so here are the products that I plan to purchase tomorrow:

From Autopia:

Cobra Guzzler HD Waffle Weave Drying Towel-- $19.99 for two
Pinnacle Ultra Poly Clay-- $39.99 for four bars
Package of 3 Pinnacle Foam Wax Applicators-- $4.99
Duragloss #105-- $10.99 for 16oz bottle
Pinnacle XMT Speed Clay Lube-- $9.99 for two bottles

From Chemical Guys

Chemical Guys Citrus Wash & Gloss-- $18.95 for one gallon
3" Thick Microfiber Wash Mitt-- $6.95
Microfiber Super Towel, Slick Branded, 16X16-- $17.95 for 12 pack
209g Gray Clay Bar medium-duty + 16oz spray of LUBER-- $22.95

What do you think of that as a starter kit for now?


The Pinnacle clay is a great product.
The medium clay from Chemical Guy's was a little too aggressive for me. I think you will be more than happy with Pinnacle clay.
I would also get some Elite Microfibers from Chemical Guy's. These are my favorite.
As someone stated earlier FK 425 is great. I have switched to ONR for detailer and clay lube, you can't beat the price.