Need a 5W50 for 5.0 Coyote

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Originally Posted By: swirlparanoid
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
Mobil, Castrol, Motorcraft, and you found Redline.
Maybe amsoil has something for you?
That's all the oils available in the specced visc.


I would use the Motorcraft but i read somewhere that it shears pretty badly.
Figures that they would recommend something with such little competition so people buy the Motorcraft. Looks like ill have to go with Redline or Amsoil then.


Redline or AMSoil would be good choices. Did you study the spreadsheet on the link that DragRace posted? There is a lot of good data there. It shows that MC 5w50 always shears to a 40-weight, and sometimes to 30. It shears an average of 32%. There are a couple of UOA's there that show it shearing >40%. AMSoil looks to be the least shear-prone on the SVT spreadsheet. Their 10w40 starts out a 40 and stays a 40. Redline 5w50 shears about 15%, but does stay in the 50-weight grade. Motul 300V 10w40 only sheared 2%. If you plan to run your car hard, I would definitely stay away from MC 5w50.
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
MC 5w50 shears to a 40-weight quickly, and then to a 30-weight if you run it hard. The only real reason to run it is that it has low zddp, equivalent to API limits for 20 and 30-weights. If you want to protect your engine instead of your cats, run Redline 10w40.


The reason to run it is to retain his factory warranty. THIS is the reason the Euro marques had so many bloody problems in North America. "Run an approved lubricant? this is 'merica! I'll run whatever the [censored] I bloody well feel like!!!"
smirk.gif



If the car is going to be taken on a race track, the warranty would be void anyway. I wouldn't run a Coyote 5.0 on a race track with the MC oil. I wouldn't even run the MC 5w50 in my lawn mower.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
MC 5w50 shears to a 40-weight quickly, and then to a 30-weight if you run it hard. The only real reason to run it is that it has low zddp, equivalent to API limits for 20 and 30-weights. If you want to protect your engine instead of your cats, run Redline 10w40.


The reason to run it is to retain his factory warranty. THIS is the reason the Euro marques had so many bloody problems in North America. "Run an approved lubricant? this is 'merica! I'll run whatever the [censored] I bloody well feel like!!!"
smirk.gif



If the car is going to be taken on a race track, the warranty would be void anyway. I wouldn't run a Coyote 5.0 on a race track with the MC oil. I wouldn't even run the MC 5w50 in my lawn mower.


Someone gets it!
01.gif
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Track pack GT isn't a Boss 302 or GT500. It's a GT with parts bolted on.


Correct, parts that make it handle better. As well as an oil cooler, which would actually LOWER oil temperature. Yet they still recommend a heavier oil.... Because the idea here is to allow the car to be driven on a road course. Remember, the difference between the GT and BOSS 302 is only 24HP. It was the intended usage profile that made the difference with the BOSS.

Quote:
Apparently, Ford doesn't think 5w-20 is sufficient for all driving conditions.


Correct. Hence the entire idea of the "track pack", it is a variant of the GT, that, like the BOSS 302, was designed to be.... TRACKED! Which elevates oil temperatures beyond what is obviously safe with 5w-20..... even with the fitment of an oil cooler.

Quote:
Applying common sense, if you had a regular GT, you could also use 5w-50 if you felt it was needed. Clearly it won't harm the engine.


And if you were tracking it and decided NOT to opt for the Track Pack version, you'd likely be wise to, as you'd not have the factory oil cooler for starters.

However, Ford also implements "oil temperature castration" on these engines, which cuts power to reduce oil temperatures. I'm betting that part of the changes to the "track pack" is an adjustment to the temperature at which this happens, due to the spec'ing of a heavier lubricant over the base GT.

Quote:
Applying even more common sense, if 5w-20 is pretty much OK, and 5w-50 is recommended sometimes, anything in between is also likely OK. Maybe even ideal.

Unless of course Ford engineers were so clever they designed an engine that could only run with oils on the far ends of the spectrum, but nothing in between. Barring sheared MC 5w-50, they figured out that too.


That is unless you value your factory warranty. In which case you use a lubricant that has Ford's approval. As of right now, the only two I know of are the Motorcraft 5w-50 and QSUD 5w-50.

Common sense and logic dictate that you follow the REQUIREMENTS of the manufacturer, not fabricate asinine tripe peddled under the guise of "logic" and "common sense" to justify the use of inappropriate lubricants in a product that is still under warranty.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: swirlparanoid
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
Mobil, Castrol, Motorcraft, and you found Redline.
Maybe amsoil has something for you?
That's all the oils available in the specced visc.


I would use the Motorcraft but i read somewhere that it shears pretty badly.
Figures that they would recommend something with such little competition so people buy the Motorcraft. Looks like ill have to go with Redline or Amsoil then.


Redline or AMSoil would be good choices. Did you study the spreadsheet on the link that DragRace posted? There is a lot of good data there. It shows that MC 5w50 always shears to a 40-weight, and sometimes to 30. It shears an average of 32%. There are a couple of UOA's there that show it shearing >40%. AMSoil looks to be the least shear-prone on the SVT spreadsheet. Their 10w40 starts out a 40 and stays a 40. Redline 5w50 shears about 15%, but does stay in the 50-weight grade. Motul 300V 10w40 only sheared 2%. If you plan to run your car hard, I would definitely stay away from MC 5w50.


I'm sure this is based on extensive tear-down testing like Ford has done and not just UOA's right?
smirk.gif
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
MC 5w50 shears to a 40-weight quickly, and then to a 30-weight if you run it hard. The only real reason to run it is that it has low zddp, equivalent to API limits for 20 and 30-weights. If you want to protect your engine instead of your cats, run Redline 10w40.


The reason to run it is to retain his factory warranty. THIS is the reason the Euro marques had so many bloody problems in North America. "Run an approved lubricant? this is 'merica! I'll run whatever the [censored] I bloody well feel like!!!"
smirk.gif



If the car is going to be taken on a race track, the warranty would be void anyway. I wouldn't run a Coyote 5.0 on a race track with the MC oil. I wouldn't even run the MC 5w50 in my lawn mower.


No, if something BREAKS on the race track, it is usually not covered under warranty. Like if you dust your clutch, you probably aren't getting a new one if Ford knew you were launching the car on some ET Drags at TMP. However taking the car to a race track doesn't automatically void your warranty.

Example: BMW has track days. They ENCOURAGE you to take your car to road racing events and even go as far as hosting them for BMW owners.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: KenO
So, if you do have an issue - who is going to prove you used an incorrect oil? Is a UOA going to prove that?


Ford and the other OEM's have more than enough resources to determine what lubricant is in the sump.

I don't know why it is so hard for some people to swallow the concept of warranty compliance. Do we honestly think we are smarter than the OEM's here? Are we that naive that we legitimately feel that by glancing at an oil's PDS that we know more than the manufacturer and what they gleaned through extensive tear-down testing?


+1

I trust Joe Schmoe's testing. You know, Redline, mixed with MMO, BG, Toyota ow20 and his $25 UOA.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
No, if something BREAKS on the race track, it is usually not covered under warranty. Like if you dust your clutch, you probably aren't getting a new one if Ford knew you were launching the car on some ET Drags at TMP. However taking the car to a race track doesn't automatically void your warranty.

Example: BMW has track days. They ENCOURAGE you to take your car to road racing events and even go as far as hosting them for BMW owners.


So does SRT. they are one of the extreme few who do guarantee the car even in most track situations. I personally had an old track rat bud of mine who could not get warranty coverage on his Vette because he was drag racing, but I think anyone who takes a street car to the track should realize that neither their warranty nor their insurance will likely help them.

If you can't afford to fix it don't race it!
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


That is unless you value your factory warranty. In which case you use a lubricant that has Ford's approval. As of right now, the only two I know of are the Motorcraft 5w-50 and QSUD 5w-50.

Common sense and logic dictate that you follow the REQUIREMENTS of the manufacturer, not fabricate asinine tripe peddled under the guise of "logic" and "common sense" to justify the use of inappropriate lubricants in a product that is still under warranty.

I'm talking about oils that will work well/best in the engine. You know kinda what BITOG is all about. Not corporate warranty dribble with obvious flaws. That's another discussion. I'm not sure why people like you even log in. Just look at the owners manual and follow it to the letter. They tell you everything you want to know about what's absolutely best for your vehicle. Anything else is asinine. Right? I guess we could talk about if we have to change the oil exactly on the 10,000 or would 9998 or 10002 void the warranty when the manual calls for 10K changes.

If you want to explain how 5w-20 and 5-50 are both ideal for the coyote but Xw-30, Xw-40, and I guess 0w-20 too, are poor choices I'm interested in reading that but I'm done with the warranty stuff. I know what the book says.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


That is unless you value your factory warranty. In which case you use a lubricant that has Ford's approval. As of right now, the only two I know of are the Motorcraft 5w-50 and QSUD 5w-50.

Common sense and logic dictate that you follow the REQUIREMENTS of the manufacturer, not fabricate asinine tripe peddled under the guise of "logic" and "common sense" to justify the use of inappropriate lubricants in a product that is still under warranty.

I'm talking about oils that will work well/best in the engine. You know kinda what BITOG is all about. Not corporate warranty dribble with obvious flaws. That's another discussion. I'm not sure why people like you even log in. Just look at the owners manual and follow it to the letter. They tell you everything you want to know about what's absolutely best for your vehicle. Anything else is asinine. Right? I guess we could talk about if we have to change the oil exactly on the 10,000 or would 9998 or 10002 void the warranty when the manual calls for 10K changes.

If you want to explain how 5w-20 and 5-50 are both ideal for the coyote but Xw-30, Xw-40, and I guess 0w-20 too, are poor choices I'm interested in reading that but I'm done with the warranty stuff. I know what the book says.


Most people come here and don't even know about Manufacturer Certifications or what API stands for. The value of this site is posters like Overkill and many others that point out great oil choices that can be used without warranty issues under the conditions described. A lot of people spout off about this or that oil being the best when they have only reviewed specs on paper and haven't even tried it themselves.

I would be willing to say that Overkill knows more than "kinda what BITOG is all about".
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: swirlparanoid
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
Mobil, Castrol, Motorcraft, and you found Redline.
Maybe amsoil has something for you?
That's all the oils available in the specced visc.


I would use the Motorcraft but i read somewhere that it shears pretty badly.
Figures that they would recommend something with such little competition so people buy the Motorcraft. Looks like ill have to go with Redline or Amsoil then.


Redline or AMSoil would be good choices. Did you study the spreadsheet on the link that DragRace posted? There is a lot of good data there. It shows that MC 5w50 always shears to a 40-weight, and sometimes to 30. It shears an average of 32%. There are a couple of UOA's there that show it shearing >40%. AMSoil looks to be the least shear-prone on the SVT spreadsheet. Their 10w40 starts out a 40 and stays a 40. Redline 5w50 shears about 15%, but does stay in the 50-weight grade. Motul 300V 10w40 only sheared 2%. If you plan to run your car hard, I would definitely stay away from MC 5w50.


I'm sure this is based on extensive tear-down testing like Ford has done and not just UOA's right?
smirk.gif



If you have teardown data from Ford documenting how MC 5w50 is better than AMSoil and Redline, post it. As it is, I think that the SVT data is the best information that has been brought into this discussion.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman

If you have teardown data from Ford documenting how MC 5w50 is better than AMSoil and Redline, post it.


We'd need tests done by all three companies. We KNOW Ford did the testing. How about the other two?

Quote:
As it is, I think that the SVT data is the best information that has been brought into this discussion.


I disagree. If we look at Doug's tear-down data as an indication as to what the values we see in a UOA can or cannot mean, what we see is that the oils shears. That's about it. We have no idea which lubricant is genuinely doing the best by the engine. On the other side of the coin, Ford DOES know what lubricant does the best by their engine. That's why they came up with the specification that they require a 5w-50 to meet to be used in the BOSS 302, Track Pack and GT500 cars. This is the same reason BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche....etc all have their own manufacturers certs and approvals. Because just because it shows the same grade on the bottle does NOT mean that it meets the required performance standards set by the manufacturer!
 
Regardless of your personal feelings, we have an obligation to make clear what works and complies with the warranty. Don't want some newbie to come along and blow up a perfectly good engine.

As far as selecting your own oil, I have used M1 0W-40 at Homestead for track days and even at 300 degrees oil temp it held up well per UOA. But my fave is Amsoil Dominator. 15w-50 is available and it is one heck of an oil for track use...
 
Originally Posted By: hatt

I'm talking about oils that will work well/best in the engine.


Based on your OPINION.

Quote:
You know kinda what BITOG is all about.


No, BITOG is about the right information and FACTS. Something you haven't brought to the table here. Retaining the factory warranty and using an oil that meets the standards set by the manufacturer are factual items and things the OP needs to be aware of with his new car. Unless of course you are willing to pony up the bucks to buy him a new engine if he follows your baseless recommendations? No? Didn't think so.

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Not corporate warranty dribble with obvious flaws.


Show me the obvious flaws. I mean actual data, not just your opinion. And retaining the warranty is completely relevant to somebody who just shelled out the money for a new car.

Quote:
That's another discussion.


No, that's this discussion. The car is under warranty.

Quote:
I'm not sure why people like you even log in.


Because I'm an automotive enthusiast who probably has a [censored] of a lot more experience in taking apart engines than you do. Somebody has to stand against the "I use whatever the [censored] I feel like because I know more than the OEM since I glanced at a few PDS's on the Internet and stayed at a Holiday Inn last night" garbage. I use all kinds of oils that may not align with the OEM recommendations in applications that may have called for a given grade. Usually those applications have been modified to make the OEM recommendation no longer relevant (IE, an HCI 302 that experiences higher oil temperatures than it ever would have stock) and have experimented extensively with lubricants in my own vehicles that aren't of the OEM-spec viscosity. I've run everything from 0w-20 to 5w-40 in my 5.4L for example. But these are applications that do NOT have a factory warranty. And they are my personal vehicles, so I can post the results (or the lack thereof) here and may not necessarily advise others to follow in my footsteps. And I would NEVER advise somebody with an in-warranty vehicle to experiment the way I have done.

Quote:
Just look at the owners manual and follow it to the letter.


Most people don't even bother to do that. They buy whatever they see on sale at Walmart and then blame the manufacturer for when something goes wrong. Most people are oblivious to the fact that their car may require a lubricant with a specific approval or certification. These are the same people who have no idea that a Euro 5w30 isn't the same as their PYB 5w30.

Quote:
They tell you everything you want to know about what's absolutely best for your vehicle.


They tell you what you are required to use to retain your factory warranty, which goes hand-in-hand with the testing done by the OEM to ensure a long and eventless engine life.

Quote:
Anything else is asinine. Right?


Anything else is guessing. Which you are more than free to do with your own vehicle, or a vehicle out of warranty. But to advise somebody who has a new car that REQUIRES an oil that meets a certain specification to use something else because you disagree with the OEM for whatever reason is not in the best interest of that person.

Quote:

If you want to explain how 5w-20 and 5-50 are both ideal for the coyote but Xw-30, Xw-40, and I guess 0w-20 too, are poor choices I'm interested in reading that but I'm done with the warranty stuff. I know what the book says.


Where did I use the word ideal? I said "in order to retain his warranty". I'm not sure why there's such a disconnect here. Is this really that confusing? While under warranty, you use an approved lubricant. When you aren't under warranty, you can run whatever the [censored] you want. If that's MMO mixed with wheel bearing grease, then you have at it!

If this car was not under warranty, I'd suggest Mobil 1 0w-40. It is somewhere in the middle between the two OEM grades, has a plethora of manufacturer certs and approvals to guarantee a particular level of performance and is in general, an excellent product.

However, the car IS under warranty, so the OP should use either the Motorcraft oil, or QSUD 5w-50, which has Ford's approval for this application. To advise him to do otherwise is foolish.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


If this car was not under warranty, I'd suggest Mobil 1 0w-40. It is somewhere in the middle between the two OEM grades, has a plethora of manufacturer certs and approvals to guarantee a particular level of performance and is in general, an excellent product.


Finally something pertaining to what's the BEST oil for a coyote.
 
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