Mobil1 0w-30 vs 5w-30EP

[elwaylite]

Not looking at price, do the specs not make 5w30EP a better overall oil?
5w30 - OW30
61 - 63 cold vis (lower for better cold cranking)
11 - 11 warm vis
3.1 - 2.99 HTHS (better handling of heat)
230 - 228 flashpoint
10.5 - 8.5 TBN (i guess this only matters for longer OCI?)

I know the are close, but the cold vis, HTHS and TBN make it appear to me, at those weights, the 5w30 is a better oil than the 0w-30.

Thanks for any clarification.

Reason I ask is I've read a lot of recommendations for the 0w-30.

 

[addyguy]

Different oils, for different purposes.

M1 0W30 'AFE' is a thin, fuel-efficiency oil. It is designed to thin out at operating temp, and give good fuel economy. It has a TBN of 8.5, so it is not a long-drain oil. Will most like do 8-10k w/o a problem. It is also a '0W' oil, so as you say, it will make winter starts easier.

M1 5w30 'EP' is a long-drain oil. It has a TBn of around 10-11; higher additive levels, and a slightly thicker base oil. It is designed to survive longer in service.

In reality, you're not going to notice a real economy difference between the two, nor are you going to see a real cold-start difference between the two. It will come down to how long you want to run the oil.

To answer your question - the 5w30 EP is a 'stronger' oil; but unless you run it past 10k, you won't get the extra value out of it.

 

[tig1]

Last year I did a UOA on my Focus with the M1 5-30EP at 10,000 miles and it had plenty of life left. 3.3 TBN. Wear metals were also very good.Alum 2,Iron 11, Copper 3.

 

[D189379]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Different oils, for different purposes.

M1 0W30 'AFE' is a thin, fuel-efficiency oil. It is designed to thin out at operating temp, and give good fuel economy. It has a TBN of 8.5, so it is not a long-drain oil. Will most like do 8-10k w/o a problem. It is also a '0W' oil, so as you say, it will make winter starts easier.

M1 5w30 'EP' is a long-drain oil. It has a TBn of around 10-11; higher additive levels, and a slightly thicker base oil. It is designed to survive longer in service.

In reality, you're not going to notice a real economy difference between the two, nor are you going to see a real cold-start difference between the two. It will come down to how long you want to run the oil.

To answer your question - the 5w30 EP is a 'stronger' oil; but unless you run it past 10k, you won't get the extra value out of it.


Then numbers he posted show the 5W30 having a lower viscosity at low temps and the exact same viscosity at high temps. And with a higher TBN, I'd say the 5w30 is better than the 0w30 at everything.

 

[tomcat27]

oddly enuf. but also more expensive

 

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted By: D189379
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Different oils, for different purposes.

M1 0W30 'AFE' is a thin, fuel-efficiency oil. It is designed to thin out at operating temp, and give good fuel economy. It has a TBN of 8.5, so it is not a long-drain oil. Will most like do 8-10k w/o a problem. It is also a '0W' oil, so as you say, it will make winter starts easier.

M1 5w30 'EP' is a long-drain oil. It has a TBn of around 10-11; higher additive levels, and a slightly thicker base oil. It is designed to survive longer in service.

In reality, you're not going to notice a real economy difference between the two, nor are you going to see a real cold-start difference between the two. It will come down to how long you want to run the oil.

To answer your question - the 5w30 EP is a 'stronger' oil; but unless you run it past 10k, you won't get the extra value out of it.


Then numbers he posted show the 5W30 having a lower viscosity at low temps and the exact same viscosity at high temps. And with a higher TBN, I'd say the 5w30 is better than the 0w30 at everything.


Yeah, thats what got me wondering. 0w30 was another choice of oil Im looking at, and I understand that the numbers are close, BUT, the 5w30 appears to do everything equal OR better.

Better cold start
equal warm thickness
better HTHS
better TBN

 

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted By: tomcat27
oddly enuf. but also more expensive



Yeah, but Im not concerned with cost when Im going to be doing them myself.

Simple math shows very little cost difference

100k miles
6000 OCI
16.67 oil changes
5 quarts a change
$2 more per quart for slightly better oil
$10 more per change
Means I run slightly better oil in my car for 6.67 years (15k/yr)
for a grand total of $166.70, or roughly $25/yr.

(all guestimation numbers, but you can see why cost does not matter to me)

Small potatoes for getting the better spec'd oil. Kinda like drving 10 miles out of your way every week to save 2 cents on gas, Im just not that worried about it. This is all a Wally World buy, so the cost is cheapo anyways.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

M1 afe has an additional moly load ,and, come ON guys, 63cSt is not cold vis - thats a 40 deg C rating. You have to look at the CCS numbers - the AFE should be MUCH easier pumping below zero C. than the EP. I got my AFE for 12 bucks for 5 qts after online rebate(which I GOT yesterday! yipee!). That made an asy choice given the cost/perfomance ratio for a winter oil. Darn cheap actually.

 

[bepperb]

The reason it has a lower HTHS is for better fuel economy. HTHS correlates with fuel efficiency even moreso than viscosity.

Source: http://books.google.com/books?id=Fu-99Mc...iciency&f=false

So it is made for fuel economy, like the sticker on the bottle says. If this isn't an advantage to you, yes it would appear the 5-30 is a better bet. You should bring the 10-30 into the mix, it's thinner at 40 and 100 than either (which will blow some minds around here) and has an even higher HTHS.

 

[elwaylite]

I did notice that 10w30 was thinner, funny.

Where do you get the CCS numbers??

 

[unDummy]

http://www.widman.biz/Seleccion/Viscosidad/SAE_J300/SAE_J300_English/sae_j300_english.html

Mobil1 seems to leave out just enough data to prevent these types of comparisons.

 

[elwaylite]

WHen I use the viscosity calculator:

5w30 ep. 40C at 61 and 100c at 11
0 degrees C is 475

then

0w-30 40C at 63 and 100c at 11
0 degrees C is 517

So the 5w30 is still better at 32 degrees F.

 

[elwaylite]

Here are some more 0C comparisons for Viscosity:

0w-20 = 345.5
EP 5w-20 = 361.3
5w-20 = 388.2
EP 5w30 = 475.5
0w-30 = 520.0
5w30 = 530.7

Looks like, to me, that the EP's almost beat all the normal oils (0w-20 being the exception) in cold cranking (32F), but have a higher TBN and and HTHS rating.

I still think, in this group and money not mattering, 5w-20 and 5w30 EP are better than 5w-20, 5w30 and 0w-30.


Im gonna go with 5w30 EP in my Scion and Sonata, and run OEM filters.