Nothing new here. This is just SpectraSyn®, SpectraSyn Ultra® , Synesstic®, Esterex® EM base oils used with VII. All this has been around at least since M1 has been advertised as made with "SuperSyn".
Mobil Patents 0w100 High Performance Motor Oil
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The components of these oils have been around for a while but so far I have never seen a 0w100 oil that is marketed so that would be news.
There is no doubt that a straight grade petroleum oil has excellent shear stability because these oil contain no viscosity index improvers that can shear back. However
it has been a know fact that for many years synthetic oils have been formulated for straight grade applications most of which have contained absolutely no polymer viscosity index improvers and the multigrade performence came only from the basestocks which had a high natural viscosity index. Yet these old school mechanics refused to recognize these synthetic oils as straight grade oils even though the viscosity range of the synthetic oil was very limited and threatened to void warranties if these synthetic lubricants were used. I am sure that some aircraft mechanics think that only a non detergent oil can be a straight grade and I was shocked to find out that non detergent aircraft oils are still sold.
it has been a know fact that for many years synthetic oils have been formulated for straight grade applications most of which have contained absolutely no polymer viscosity index improvers and the multigrade performence came only from the basestocks which had a high natural viscosity index. Yet these old school mechanics refused to recognize these synthetic oils as straight grade oils even though the viscosity range of the synthetic oil was very limited and threatened to void warranties if these synthetic lubricants were used. I am sure that some aircraft mechanics think that only a non detergent oil can be a straight grade and I was shocked to find out that non detergent aircraft oils are still sold.
Show us where 0w100 is marketed. That patent application was filed 03-24-99 and granted 3-30-04.
[ July 23, 2006, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
It may not yet be possible to market a 0w100 oil. The viscosity of this oil is so radical that most mechanics would be opposed to it even if it were the best oil in the world for high performance applications. In the future a 0w100 oil will be accepted but it may take decades to change attitudes.
It won't be marketed because there's no need for it, now, and in the foreseeable future. Virtually all developement is heading toward LOW viscoity oils. If they could produce a 0w30 10 cSt@100C oil with a VI of 360, then you'd have something to get excited about.
Too many assume that it is impossible to formulate a 100% synthetic oil for aviation use. However a 0w100 oil probably has never been tested for aviation use so its ability to suspend lead is totally unknown yet people insist that it will not work so why bother trying. Also 0w100 is just one example of the viscosities listed under the patent and any widely cross graded oil falls under the patent.
Also one must remember that there is a difference between a fuel economy oil and a high performance oil. For example I use a 0w30 fuel economy synthetic oil in my Mazda Protege and it works just fine. But my engine is not a high performance engine. If I had a Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engine I would never use a 0w30 unless it was limited to Arctic use. I would want a high performance oil such as a straight 50 weight oil or a 20w40 synthetic oil.
Also one must remember that there is a difference between a fuel economy oil and a high performance oil. For example I use a 0w30 fuel economy synthetic oil in my Mazda Protege and it works just fine. But my engine is not a high performance engine. If I had a Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engine I would never use a 0w30 unless it was limited to Arctic use. I would want a high performance oil such as a straight 50 weight oil or a 20w40 synthetic oil.
What current Detroit Diesel 2-stroke engine recommends anything more viscous than a SAE 50 straight grade HDEO?
Kestas
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I think you guys are reading too much into this patent. There's a disturbing trend in the Patent Office that started a number of years ago where there are many frivolous patents being filed in the name of corporate warfare.
These frivolous patents are far from the "spark of an idea" patents that usually resulted in something useful for the general public, which is what the Patent Office was meant for. Now these frivolous patents are means of companies holding a gun to each others' heads and a bargaining chip for patent negotiations. The japanese are leading the field in this phenomenon. They issue more patents than the US not because they're more innovative, but because they are more into playing this game.
I cannot help but wonder if this Mobil patent isn't something frivolous along those lines... meant to preclude some actions of their competitors, and not really meant as an innovation or a solution to some problem.
These frivolous patents are far from the "spark of an idea" patents that usually resulted in something useful for the general public, which is what the Patent Office was meant for. Now these frivolous patents are means of companies holding a gun to each others' heads and a bargaining chip for patent negotiations. The japanese are leading the field in this phenomenon. They issue more patents than the US not because they're more innovative, but because they are more into playing this game.
I cannot help but wonder if this Mobil patent isn't something frivolous along those lines... meant to preclude some actions of their competitors, and not really meant as an innovation or a solution to some problem.
Yeah, it'll shear back to 0W75 or 80 in NO time!
A good canidate for an exact replacement for a 2 stroke Detroit Diesel Straight 40w50/SAE 50 weight oil would be a 25w50/SAE50 grade synthetic oil with no viscosity index improvers. Such an oil would be a straight SAE 50 grade would have a 465 degree farenheight flashpoint and have the 5 centistroke high temperature high shear viscosity at 150 degrees centigrade. 5 centistrokes viscosity meets the SAE 15 grade for 100 degrees centigrade.
If an oil is desired that meets some of the characteristics of an SAE 40 grade and SAE 50 grade oils then a good canidate would be a 20w40/SAE40 or a 20w50 grade synthetic oil. Both oils start off as a straight SAE 40 grade oil but the 20w50 is VI improved. Both oils have a flashpoint of a straight 40 weight oil but the 20w50 has the 5 centistroke high temperature high shear viscosity at 150 degrees centigrad like that of an SAE 50 weight oil.
If a widely cross graded oil is desired for the Detroit Diesel 2 stroke it would be prudent to specify that such an oil has the 5 centistroke high temperature high shear viscosity at 150 degrees farenheight of an SAE 50 grade oil. A 0w50 oil would therefore be too thin and a 0w60 oil would be required to meet the 5 centistroke grade. 5w40 would be too thin but a 5w50, 10w50 or 15w50 oil would work.
However if widely cross graded oils are not trusted it may be prudent to specify an oil that exceeds the high temperature high shear viscosity of an SAE 50 grade oil. Thus an oil that has a 6 centistroke viscosity at 150 degrees centigrade could be specified. (6 centistrokes is SAE 20 at 100 degrees centigrade)Therefore a good canidate oil for the Detroit Diesel 2 stroke would be the 0w80 grade oil, 5w70 or the 10w60.
If an oil is desired that meets some of the characteristics of an SAE 40 grade and SAE 50 grade oils then a good canidate would be a 20w40/SAE40 or a 20w50 grade synthetic oil. Both oils start off as a straight SAE 40 grade oil but the 20w50 is VI improved. Both oils have a flashpoint of a straight 40 weight oil but the 20w50 has the 5 centistroke high temperature high shear viscosity at 150 degrees centigrad like that of an SAE 50 weight oil.
If a widely cross graded oil is desired for the Detroit Diesel 2 stroke it would be prudent to specify that such an oil has the 5 centistroke high temperature high shear viscosity at 150 degrees farenheight of an SAE 50 grade oil. A 0w50 oil would therefore be too thin and a 0w60 oil would be required to meet the 5 centistroke grade. 5w40 would be too thin but a 5w50, 10w50 or 15w50 oil would work.
However if widely cross graded oils are not trusted it may be prudent to specify an oil that exceeds the high temperature high shear viscosity of an SAE 50 grade oil. Thus an oil that has a 6 centistroke viscosity at 150 degrees centigrade could be specified. (6 centistrokes is SAE 20 at 100 degrees centigrade)Therefore a good canidate oil for the Detroit Diesel 2 stroke would be the 0w80 grade oil, 5w70 or the 10w60.
BINGO! Congress keeps making Intellectual Property more and more valuable by extending the copyright/patent periods. (70 yrs after author's death, now, IIRC, while originally it was 7 years, period.)
Hint for the short-sighted - most major advancements are really incremental. The big ideas that change the world almost never happen on the first attempt, but develop when someone improves upon a not-quite-successful prototype.
I guess Detroit Diesel blew it when they developed the Power Guard 93K214 specification. Too bad they didn't know that you know more about their engines then they do.
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I was wondering how they last like they do without these yet to be developed oils
I'm no diesel jock ..but I never heard too much xw-anything in two stroke diesels. Multivisc oils are not typically used AFAIK. There are ash issues.
side note: Now patent laws can surely have evolved ..but I know that Kodak developed and patented about 7 types of instant developing film ..and never brought them to market. The idea was to preempt Polaroid and corner them in an antiquated box. Polaroid sued and, at the time anyway, effectively established that patenting for the sole purpose of preventing something from coming to market rendered the patent vulnerable. That is, you actually have to manufacture the product to have the patent fully enforced.
I'm no diesel jock ..but I never heard too much xw-anything in two stroke diesels. Multivisc oils are not typically used AFAIK. There are ash issues.
side note: Now patent laws can surely have evolved ..but I know that Kodak developed and patented about 7 types of instant developing film ..and never brought them to market. The idea was to preempt Polaroid and corner them in an antiquated box. Polaroid sued and, at the time anyway, effectively established that patenting for the sole purpose of preventing something from coming to market rendered the patent vulnerable. That is, you actually have to manufacture the product to have the patent fully enforced.
Gary, I believe that was quite a long time ago. Intellectual property laws and how they have been practiced, have changed quite a bit in the past 25-30 years, especially since DRM. Heck, have a look at how these shysters make a good living just litigating the current mess. http://www.ipww.com
On a brighter note, the Supreme Court may be restoring some common sense to the current IP Tower of Babel. http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1153744535390
On a brighter note, the Supreme Court may be restoring some common sense to the current IP Tower of Babel. http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1153744535390
One of my favorite lawyer stories, not sure if it's true, but I like it nontheless:
Charlotte, NC lawyer purchased a box of very rare and expensive cigars, then insured them against fire, among other things. Within a month, having smoked his entire stockpile of these great cigars and without yet having made even his first premium payment on the policy, the lawyer filed claim against the insurance company.
In his claim, the lawyer stated the cigars were "lost in a series of small fires."
The insurance company refused to pay, citing the obvious reason that the man had consumed the cigars in the normal fashion.
The lawyer sued and WON! (Stay with me.) In delivering the ruling, the judge agreed with the insurance company that the claim was frivolous. The judge stated nevertheless that the lawyer "held a policy from the company in which it had warranted that the cigars were insurable and also guaranteed that it would insure them against fire, without defining what is considered to be unacceptable fire" and was obligated to pay the claim. Rather than endure lengthy and costly appeal process, the insurance company accepted the ruling and paid $15,000 to the lawyer for his loss of the rare cigars lost in the "fires."
NOW FOR THE BEST PART...
After the lawyer cashed the check, the insurance company had him arrested on 24 counts of ARSON!!! With his own insurance claim and testimony from previous case being used against him, the lawyer was convicted of intentionally burning his insured property and was sentenced to 24 months in jail and a $24,000 fine.
This is a true story and was the First Place winner in the recent Criminal Lawyers Award Contest.
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Sure was. 30 years ago ..as you mention
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