Michelin Pilot Sport AS4

[jeepman3071]

Horrible. Absolutely dangerous. Don’t ever drive on summer tires in winter conditions. I hadn’t planned to, but as I said, I got caught.

This was my reasoning for getting my AS4's instead of dedicated summers. Too many in-between days and one morning I drove the car on summers when the temp randomly hit 30 degrees over night. The lack of traction was incredible, and the roads were dry.

 

[Astro14]

This was my reasoning for getting my AS4's instead of dedicated summers. Too many in-between days and one morning I drove the car on summers when the temp randomly hit 30 degrees over night. The lack of traction was incredible, and the roads were dry.

You should see them in freezing rain, on slick, icy roads...

 

[edyvw]

I’m not doubting your experience, but I’m going to go with the instrumented testing done on the same day with the same car. Both Tire Rack and Tyre Reviews have similar data. Neither tire has the 3PMSF as well. If the Michelin is bad in snow then the DWS is just as bad.

View attachment 188476

While Bridgestone scored good on that test, they were never on par Michelin or Continental in this category of tires. They just replaced 980+ as wet and sry performance was underwhelming compared to that competition on the test.
Bridgestone emphasized winter performance, but lost a lot elsewhere. It is testament that it is really hard hitting every performance aspect equally.

 

[zray1]

You should see them in freezing rain, on slick, icy roads...

This was my reasoning for getting my AS4's instead of dedicated summers. Too many in-between days and one morning I drove the car on summers when the temp randomly hit 30 degrees over night. The lack of traction was incredible, and the roads were dry.

Affirmative !

I’d love to have the summer tire traction all year, but the cold weather characteristics of the summer tires are just too lethal. It only takes one experience with them when the temperature has dropped suddenly to make a 4-S believer out of the unfortunate driver.

Z

 

[ls1mike]

I have them on the WS6 which is 440 to wheels. While it will never see snow it sees tons of rain in Washington. I have been very happy with the performance overall.

 

[y_p_w]

I had a set of the original DWS. Never got to try them in snow but man they squealed in even a mild turn. I ran Pilot AS3 for years and they were better. Even took them in light snow, although roads were mostly plowed and the worst conditions I saw were unplowed parking lots.

But yeah there can be really scary ones. I remember my first replacement set on my WRX were Pirelli PZero Nero M+S. They were absolutely not meant for any snow, but I didn't manage to spin out driving in near white out conditions in Lake Tahoe. But I was new to winter driving and didn't know any better.

 

[edyvw]

I had a set of the original DWS. Never got to try them in snow but man they squealed in even a mild turn. I ran Pilot AS3 for years and they were better. Even took them in light snow, although roads were mostly plowed and the worst conditions I saw were unplowed parking lots.

But yeah there can be really scary ones. I remember my first replacement set on my WRX were Pirelli PZero Nero M+S. They were absolutely not meant for any snow, but I didn't manage to spin out driving in near white out conditions in Lake Tahoe. But I was new to winter driving and didn't know any better.

DWS need more pressure. I run 3psi over Yokohama V601 I use on track. Once you find right pressure, they are really good. I slid with them in dry and no sequel of any sort. They are absolute monster in rain.

 

[nthach]

I have a set on a Lexus LS430 driven by an old woman - so no snow use. Compared to the junk Eagle RS-As and what would be an “appropriate” tire for this car(Bridgestone Turanza QuietTrack/Serenity Plus, Yokohama Avid Ascend LX, Michelin Primacy MXM4) it makes this barge handle like it’s on rails. Rain traction is very, very good.

Supposedly the compound is a sunflower oil based one, similar to what Michelin uses for the Pilot Alpin series but harder modulus for dry roads. I think that helps it stay pliable at lower temps but as cold as a winter tire.

 

[Ws6]

For those who have run Pilot Sport AS4 compounds, how has you experience been in the literal sense of ~all seasons~

I am considering this for one car who's snow shoes are due and instead of summer/snow compounds, going the All Season route.
With all this global warming and all, winters have been getting milder every year. Haven't even used the snowblowers in like 2-3 years I think....

I've used them in 100*f and in -15*f and they work fine in all cases. They hook hard in the rain or sun. In snow and ice, they do way better than they have any right to. If Continental does not come out with DWS06+ in my size by replacement time, I will be putting new PSAS4's on again. I can pull mid 3 second 0-60's in the rain on these things. Rips mid to low 3's in literally freezing weather. They just hook. All the time and very well!

 

[Vercingetorix]

I pulled 1.14 gs indicated in a Porsche Taycan with PSAS4s. Probably not accurate, but ripped it the very first time driving on these tires.

 

[thescreensavers]

I have done Autox and a Trackday on the AS4 All Seasons and they do very well, great performing tire.

 

[TiGeo]

I've used them in 100*f and in -15*f and they work fine in all cases. They hook hard in the rain or sun. In snow and ice, they do way better than they have any right to. If Continental does not come out with DWS06+ in my size by replacement time, I will be putting new PSAS4's on again. I can pull mid 3 second 0-60's in the rain on these things. Rips mid to low 3's in literally freezing weather. They just hook. All the time and very well!

Same. Always great grip launching in below-freezing.

 

[TiGeo]

Note that I had only 2 days prior on track to this so spare me the critique of my driving as it's pretty sub-par w/r to herky/jerky, not looking ahead, etc. etc. haha. So these are PS4 all seasons....on track at VIR....even at that slower pace...if you can't drive these hard on a public road, not sure what to tell you. They do not have the outright dry grip of a pure summer like a PS4S.

 

[TiGeo]

Used them for a rainy track day. Next session was better/got used to it and was hitting ~120. No hydroplaning and good straightline braking.

 

[camrydriver111]

That’s Interesting.

But simple braking testing is just not applicable to most of the season in the mountains, or in Vermont. Turning matters, braking matters, handling matters, and the Nordic tires are much better in winter conditions when considering all three.

The indoor lap times on snow are deceptive in characterizing the performance differences.

There is a huge performance difference between all seasons and “Nordic” tires. He even says so when describing how the car handled when hitting polished ice.

“If You encounter actual winter conditions, you fit a Nordic tire”.

His recommendation for all seasons was for UK drivers - not real winter climates.

Further, his summer tire experience was spot on. I got caught in Vermont (big change in forecast, snow, freezing rain showed up) with the S600 on summer tires.

Horrible. Absolutely dangerous. Don’t ever drive on summer tires in winter conditions. I hadn’t planned to, but as I said, I got caught.

His recommendation about all seasons applies to the cars I keep in Virginia Beach, though, with a similar mild, wet winter climate to the UK.

The Mercedes do not get driven in snow. The AWD Volvo does, about once every other year, and the Nokian WRG4 do quite well.

Some important notes about that video:

Nordic Winter tires are what we call Winter tires in North America.

All-Season tires are what we call All-Weather tires in North America.

So when he is recommending all-season, he is actually recommending all-weather.

 

[edyvw]

Some important notes about that video:

Nordic Winter tires are what we call Winter tires in North America.

All-Season tires are what we call All-Weather tires in North America.

So when he is recommending all-season, he is actually recommending all-weather.

I had numerous “Central” European snow tires. Many are better in any given condition than Nordic tires. This became a thing lately. Generally “Central “ European tires are IMO more sophisticated and designed better. You have also numerous models sold as cheaper tires in markets in Germany, Slovenia, Austria etc. the Alps and southern Alps region where winter driving is actually more demanding than in Nordic countries due to elevation, huge temperature swings etc. Those tires generally are designed like “Nordic” style tires. Sava Eskimo S3+ would be example of a tire that has all attributes of Nordic tires. But pales compared to Continental TS series, Good Year UG etc. I had them all and these we have in the US. There is a reason why some Central European tires pack steep price.

 

[vavavroom]

I had a set of the original DWS. Never got to try them in snow but man they squealed in even a mild turn. I ran Pilot AS3 for years and they were better. Even took them in light snow, although roads were mostly plowed and the worst conditions I saw were unplowed parking lots.

No squeals for me. I used the first generation DWS06 on my 3 series, and I run DSW06 Plus on the Mini. The new version has stiffer sidewalls. 40 psi on all fours.

But yeah there can be really scary ones. I remember my first replacement set on my WRX were Pirelli PZero Nero M+S. They were absolutely not meant for any snow, but I didn't manage to spin out driving in near white out conditions in Lake Tahoe. But I was new to winter driving and didn't know any better.

I usually end up in chains in the Sierras. That sounds wrong. Can't even make it to Tahoe without chains. I stop by my brother's ranch and borrow one of his Jeeps when I go to Incline Village or Mammoth.

 

[y_p_w]

No squeals for me. I used the first generation DWS06 on my 3 series, and I run DSW06 Plus on the Mini. The new version has stiffer sidewalls. 40 psi on all fours.


I usually end up in chains in the Sierras. That sounds wrong. Can't even make it to Tahoe without chains. I stop by my brother's ranch and borrow one of his Jeeps when I go to Incline Village or Mammoth.

I've taken my WRX up to Tahoe and Yosemite several times, including in chain conditions. Never with the DWS though. My first time I encountered near whiteout conditions going back on US-50 shod with Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S. Those were not good in the snow. I have no idea what they were thinking calling them M+S tires. They were pliable in freezing temps, but they had zero siping. I've tried driving in the snow in those, Bridgestone Potenza RE960as, and Pilot Sport AS3.

I don't know if I'd trust it now for that kind of trip, but I'm just saving it because my kid loves the car and I'm not sure if manual transmissions will still be around by the time my kid is ready to drive.

 

[vavavroom]

I've taken my WRX up to Tahoe and Yosemite several times, including in chain conditions. Never with the DWS though. My first time I encountered near whiteout conditions going back on US-50 shod with Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S. Those were not good in the snow. I have no idea what they were thinking calling them M+S tires. They were pliable in freezing temps, but they had zero siping. I've tried driving in the snow in those, Bridgestone Potenza RE960as, and Pilot Sport AS3.

I don't know if I'd trust it now for that kind of trip, but I'm just saving it because my kid loves the car and I'm not sure if manual transmissions will still be around by the time my kid is ready to drive.

I would not drive around on A/S tires if I were to expect more than a light dusting of snow or maybe a few patches covered in an inch of snow that will melt away soon. A good example is when I had to stay in Weaverville during the beginning of the cold season. Slipped and fell on my arse when going for my morning run, something was growling in the bushes, and I had no trouble driving 4 miles to a breakfast place and waiting until the road had mostly thawed and there was only a bit snow left in patches.

 

[y_p_w]

I would not drive around on A/S tires if I were to expect more than a light dusting of snow or maybe a few patches covered in an inch of snow that will melt away soon. A good example is when I had to stay in Weaverville during the beginning of the cold season. Slipped and fell on my arse when going for my morning run, something was growling in the bushes, and I had no trouble driving 4 miles to a breakfast place and waiting until the road had mostly thawed and there was only a bit snow left in patches.

If it really came down to it, I would chain up if the conditions are so bad that even a WRX needs chains. But that would be truly icy conditions. And even then I'd be freaked out about the possibility of getting hit by a car when putting them on.

The worst that happened to me was when I lost control making a left turn in Yosemite at the Wawona Road/Glacier Point Road junction going southbound then eastbound. I was taking it a little bit too fast on the RE960as. I should have braked early before making the turn, but I tried to brake heavier during the turn and took it wide where I understeer plowed into some piled snow.

Wawona Rd & Glacier Point Rd · California 95389

Intersection

www.google.com

Don't know much about Weaverville in the winter. Was there last August though on the way back from Redwood National Park. Just wanted to add a little bit of juice to a Tesla loaner and stopped briefly at the Weaverville Joss House.