What are Continental sidewall issue issues? And I highly doubt Continental’s budget brand, which is General, is going to have somehow better sidewalls.
Michelin Defender LTX M/S2...
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This may or may not be what the OP is referring to......
Several years ago when I was looking at a set of Continental DWS06 tires for my wife's Acura TSX the "word on the street/internet forums" was that these tires - probably Continentals overall - have much softer sidewalls than other brands of the same size. It was assumed this was to achieve their balance of comfort and smoothness but at the cost of integrity and ability to absorb some of the harsher roads in cities.
Continental always had softer walls. However, I had DWS, I have them now on BMW, I had their snow tires which saw Rocky Mountains once-twice a week, and never had issues. Now, I do keep pressure higher in DWS as they don’t exert same eagerness to turn as my track tires for example, but overall, IMO, Michelin Pilot A/S and DWS are two top performance A/S tires out there.
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Yeah now I'm wavering. I did have a set of DWS06+ on my old BMW, I did like them. I burned through a few sets of garbage Sentury UHP tires before getting the DWS06+. They were definitely better performing but not much quieter. Now I have an Acura TL and think these Defender LTX M/S are kind of noisy as well, it's quite amazing they've lasted 77k miles and still have 4/32's on them...
I was planning to get the RT43's, then thought earlier today that perhaps it's worth the extra $246 to get the Defender 2's when they go on sale at DT this Saturday at 6 (the birdies chirp), but now maybe I should get the DWS's instead. I just want a reliable, QUIET, tire I won't bald out quickly (the Sentury UHP lasted less than 10k miles).
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@Dreamliner - Are you sure you have the Defender LTX M/S on the Acura not the Defender T&H? The LTX M/S is for truck/SUV and some smaller crossover but might have come in size for the TL also. Pictures of tread and sidewall?
My daughters CRV came with older worn Defender T&H that were noisy. I replaced them with Pirelli Scorpion Verde AS+2. I also put Pirelli P7 AS+2 on my Accord with main reason being quiet, good highway, wet. I don't run any of them in snow.
Where do you live? Do you need tires for winter? Are you looking for performance handling or everyday commute and highway trips? If I was getting new tires at this point for my kids or myself it would probably be Continental TrueContact Tour or Michelin CrossClimate2 with the CC2 as 3PMSF. Ours is mostly highway and local drives. I spent a lot of time watching the video's on TireRack. No direct comparison on some but watch a couple and there are cross post/video with some. I wouldn't hesitate to get the new Pirelli AS3 for either of my vehicles either depending prices and current reviews at that point. I don't have the sporty handling cars so I'm geared toward comfort/safety for everyday drives. My Defender LTX M/S on Pilot will probably age out before wear out especially since I run true winter tires.
My friend had multiple sets of the DWS06. His only complaint was the softer sidewall for initial turn in on the back roads. He had no puncture or bubble issues, loved the better smooth ride and wet handling. He recently had some Firestone Firehawk's that handled better but worse in all other categories for him.
My daughters CRV came with older worn Defender T&H that were noisy. I replaced them with Pirelli Scorpion Verde AS+2. I also put Pirelli P7 AS+2 on my Accord with main reason being quiet, good highway, wet. I don't run any of them in snow.
Where do you live? Do you need tires for winter? Are you looking for performance handling or everyday commute and highway trips? If I was getting new tires at this point for my kids or myself it would probably be Continental TrueContact Tour or Michelin CrossClimate2 with the CC2 as 3PMSF. Ours is mostly highway and local drives. I spent a lot of time watching the video's on TireRack. No direct comparison on some but watch a couple and there are cross post/video with some. I wouldn't hesitate to get the new Pirelli AS3 for either of my vehicles either depending prices and current reviews at that point. I don't have the sporty handling cars so I'm geared toward comfort/safety for everyday drives. My Defender LTX M/S on Pilot will probably age out before wear out especially since I run true winter tires.
My friend had multiple sets of the DWS06. His only complaint was the softer sidewall for initial turn in on the back roads. He had no puncture or bubble issues, loved the better smooth ride and wet handling. He recently had some Firestone Firehawk's that handled better but worse in all other categories for him.
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Read it and weep. Quite literally. I’m just a bit lost on what to get. I’m in Minnesota so we definitely have winter. I do have a set of unmounted Blizzaks and I bought a nicer set of wheels. So I’m thinking of putting regular all seasons on the new wheels and the Blizzaks I’m the old ones. I just don’t know.
The CC2 is what I’d get if only running one tire but I’ve read their noisy and have poor mpg.
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The reason why those Defenders are but noisy is that it is, well, truck tire.
If you have second set for winter, go performance A/S like DWS or Pilot A/S. The real difference between Continental and Michelin on one side, and cheaper, budget tires is wet performance and how long it keeps that initial performance. DWS is absolutely best wet handling/braking A/S tire, fallowed by Pilot A/S.
The people I know that have the CC2's really like them, most say the are quiet. My sister loves them on her Rav4. Only down side most say is a bit less MPG. I'll take that for the improved grip any day. Since you have dedicated snows, I would get whatever all season or performance version for the rest that fits your needs. If you are not tossing the TL through hard turns all the time and just DD/trips I'd get more of a grand touring version. Watch the videos for all that you might consider. I like asymmetric version for normal that I can cross rotate if any alignment/wear issues develop (as well as fix the problem). I went through a bunch of videos and reviews and will probably get the Conti TruContact for my sons car based on wet grip and overall reviews. If they had the Pirelli P7 in his size, maybe that.
He might drive a bit faster at times but not corner hugging pushing to limits. Good wear, better wet, good noise for the daily potential hours in car in traffic is the need. Performance and play might be a want but reality, wallet, and future replacement time are more important. I would get him CC2's (and still might) depending sales and availability but he has VikingContact 7 for winter.
TyreReviews linked multiple times does pretty good reviews of options.
I consider a TL more like a luxury/touring vehicle and would not think to put any LTX or other truck marketed version on it. That also depends on your area and use. I have family that live down dirt mountain roads that get muddy. Almost all their rides have some sort of all terrain or soft road version like WildPeak AT Trail. Their Mustang doesn't come out unless it's been dry and sunny multiple days. They have had to walk too far too many times to get something to pull it free. The rest of FWD/RWD/AWD on the more aggressive treads don't have to much problem.
He might drive a bit faster at times but not corner hugging pushing to limits. Good wear, better wet, good noise for the daily potential hours in car in traffic is the need. Performance and play might be a want but reality, wallet, and future replacement time are more important. I would get him CC2's (and still might) depending sales and availability but he has VikingContact 7 for winter.
TyreReviews linked multiple times does pretty good reviews of options.
I consider a TL more like a luxury/touring vehicle and would not think to put any LTX or other truck marketed version on it. That also depends on your area and use. I have family that live down dirt mountain roads that get muddy. Almost all their rides have some sort of all terrain or soft road version like WildPeak AT Trail. Their Mustang doesn't come out unless it's been dry and sunny multiple days. They have had to walk too far too many times to get something to pull it free. The rest of FWD/RWD/AWD on the more aggressive treads don't have to much problem.
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@edyvw @Sequoiasoon Well now I find myself in a bit of a predicament. I have those General Altimax RT43 tires pending pickup at TireRack for $458 after tax. I do also have an unmounted set of WS90's I picked up "used" early this spring with 11/32 on them (they start with 12/32) and do have 2 sets of wheels.
I have an opportunity to buy a set of 2021 CC2's for $450 with 8/32 on them (they start with 10/32). I know with dedicated winters I wouldn't normally grab the CC2's but it seems kind hard to pass up for with a lot of life left so cheap ($726 new before tax with the current $150 DT rebate). Also gives me the option of skipping the winter set if I decide the CC2's are enough (in MN though). Thoughts?
Winter tires are great to pick up used, they seem to show up around here often with very little wear. I normally would defer to getting new and being done with it, but saving over $300 on those CC2's is a lot.
Lots of rebates on various tires right now, so I'm a bit uncertain on what to do.
There also seems to be a new $150 rebate at DT for the Defender LTX M/S if any of you are wanting as set of those.
I have an opportunity to buy a set of 2021 CC2's for $450 with 8/32 on them (they start with 10/32). I know with dedicated winters I wouldn't normally grab the CC2's but it seems kind hard to pass up for with a lot of life left so cheap ($726 new before tax with the current $150 DT rebate). Also gives me the option of skipping the winter set if I decide the CC2's are enough (in MN though). Thoughts?
Winter tires are great to pick up used, they seem to show up around here often with very little wear. I normally would defer to getting new and being done with it, but saving over $300 on those CC2's is a lot.
Lots of rebates on various tires right now, so I'm a bit uncertain on what to do.
There also seems to be a new $150 rebate at DT for the Defender LTX M/S if any of you are wanting as set of those.
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Uh, I am not sure I will help you. I am all about true winter rubber in winter. I have three cars (Honda is just occasionally in use) and a winter set for each.
In MN, winter set in no-brainer.
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Yeah, I do see the value of the winter set. I had them on my last car which was AWD and the new car is FWD. From experience, I'd rather have RWD with Blizzaks than AWD with crappy all-seasons.
Once you experience dedicated winter tires, it's hard to go back. I know if I did NOT have a winter set I'd pretty quickly settle on the CC2's or maybe WeatherReady's. With a winter set I'm not sure I'd seek out the CC2 but I'm not so sure they'd be 'bad' either (I wish I could see how much MPG hit various tires might cause).
I think the reason I'm having a hard time deciding is because there are so many variables and similar pricing.
Right now as I see it, my options are:
Used Michelin CrossClimate2 (8/32 of 10/32): $450
General Altimax RT43: $458
Continental DWS06 Plus: $645
Continental Control Contact Tour A/S Plus: $669
Michelin Defender 2: $720
Michelin Defender LTX M/S again (just kidding): $758
Michelin CrossClimate2: $768
I will say the random number generator I just used three times picked 1 twice and 3 once...
I would just go DWS06. It is an excellent tire and really feels more like a summer performance tire with the benefit of having OK performance in really cold weather in that intermediate period between fall and winter.
That was my thinking instead of going ExtremeContact02 or Michelin Pilot PS4S.
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Based on the Tirerack test review, it does seem like the DWS06+ edges out the PS4S, especially in wet. Think it's worth the $200 over the CC2's I found?
You do the timing belt on that Pilot of yours yet? What an annoying job that was on my TL...10 hours! I had a 2001 330xi for 14 years before getting the 2013 TL (less than a year after doing a brake overhaul and getting DWS tires for the 330xi, the front diff failed, couldn't reasonably source another one, sold it, buyer totaled it 2 weeks later). I had a week of terrible mourning, genuinely felt I made a massive mistake. Now I'm very happy I switched. I had considered a 2014+ 5-series but didn't have it in me to go German again, too computerized and costly repairs.
I think it is worth it. As for performance, I am not sure DWS06 would edge out tires like PS4S. I had before PSS and that thing was defying laws of physics, dry or wet. I remember having that tire at 3/32 and going through a rain storm like I am on 12/32 tires. Literally, I could drive car in wet same as in dry. DWS06 is kind of similar. Issue is that here in CO weather is really unpredictable, and once September hits, mornings and evenings are cold, snow can come any time etc. Not really best for max performance summer tire.
Honda is basically a gift to us by my FIL. When they visit, they use it. He did the timing belt at my insistence at a dealership in Vegas several years back. I think the vehicle has 30k on that belt. Not really fond of that vehicle. Super uncomfortable.
2012+ BMWs are considered very stout, especially ones with B-generation engines.
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The only experience I have with PS4S was in a 2013 Boxster. They were pretty amazing. Hard to tell what was the tire vs car…
I wanted a Panamara, considered a 2017 ES, ended up with a 2013 TL. I did look at a 2011 535 but it had wastegate rattle. It also felt a lot bigger outside and simultaneously smaller inside than my 2001 330xi. The seat was tighter, center console way bigger (sport seats in both), all that extra room and none of it for the driver.
I like the comfort of the 2013 TL considerably more than the 2011 5 series, and massively better than the 2018+ 3-series with a door mounted cup holder that pushes beyond the door threshold into your leg if you’re trying to use the dead pedal.
The decision levers in my head move a lot, lol.
I’d pay money (not new tires every week money) to try a different tire every week for a few months. So hard to get info on tires since it all seems so subjective.
Imagine a car with the exterior design and sound from the Italians, interior design from Germans, reliability from Japan and cup holders from Americans. Bliss.
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I'm not big on used tires but have done that when money was less available or able to be shuffled with other priorities. My son is currently riding on used Michelin Premier with about 4/32" they came with the 16" rims we got off a blown motor one on CL 3 years ago. They had 7/32" when we got them with a mid 2018 date code.
Any of the 3PMSF tires for winter I consider the same way as true winter tires. At 6/32" is where the snow wear bar limits are so the used CC2's might not have long.
Like edyvw, I run full snows on my cars. The extra grip for safety side even at added cost is worth it to me for my family. They are cheaper than my deductibles and I normally get about 4 seasons out of them. I always get spare rims to keep them mounted reducing overall costs in long run plus convenience to driveway swap. If the cars have TPMS sensors, the spare rims get those also.
Any of the 3PMSF tires for winter I consider the same way as true winter tires. At 6/32" is where the snow wear bar limits are so the used CC2's might not have long.
Like edyvw, I run full snows on my cars. The extra grip for safety side even at added cost is worth it to me for my family. They are cheaper than my deductibles and I normally get about 4 seasons out of them. I always get spare rims to keep them mounted reducing overall costs in long run plus convenience to driveway swap. If the cars have TPMS sensors, the spare rims get those also.
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You know what you have after driving your brand new tires home? Used tires.
It’s just a numbers thing. I don’t want spent tires, but 2/32 gone for half price seems worth it (if the tire was right).
I picked up a set of WS90’s with 11/32 for $240. No brainer in my book.
The CC2’s are only down 2/32 from new, should have lots of life left. That said, kind of a silly tire if using a dedicated winter because of the compromises (tread noise, mpg hit). There’s a price for everything though. If they were $100 I’d already have them.
I saw a set of 225/45R17 DWS06+ for $300 but I think that’s too far off the 225/55R17. Also found a set of 225/50R17 WeatherReadys which might be doable.
I’ll probably get the $645 DWS, but when I see the wrong size ones for less than half, makes me want keep looking.
All of the used tires I’ve considered are NOT from tire resellers. Mostly seems to be from people who’ve sold vehicles and the tread left seems to align with that.
Second set of wheels for winter tires 100%. I couldn’t imagine spending $200 per year to have a shop swap tires around every spring/winter. Also yes TPMS. I’m not looking at a yellow light half the year.
I had the WeatherReady on the Accord when I bought it used. Probably the noisiest tires I ever had. I wanted to try them for the winter but when I went to put them on the sidewall cap/ply was separating on all of them. GY prorated them for me based on year and tread depth even though I had no receipt. I got GY WinterCommand Ultra in place of them, they vibrate. I paid to have them rebalanced, same thing. I paid for Road Force, better but still there. They work good in snow bit that little shake drives me crazy on highway.You know what you have after driving your brand new tires home? Used tires.
It’s just a numbers thing. I don’t want spent tires, but 2/32 gone for half price seems worth it (if the tire was right).
I picked up a set of WS90’s with 11/32 for $240. No brainer in my book.
The CC2’s are only down 2/32 from new, should have lots of life left. That said, kind of a silly tire if using a dedicated winter because of the compromises (tread noise, mpg hit). There’s a price for everything though. If they were $100 I’d already have them.
I saw a set of 225/45R17 DWS06+ for $300 but I think that’s too far off the 225/55R17. Also found a set of 225/50R17 WeatherReadys which might be doable.
I did some WS80's for my Sonata that were 3 months old, less than 1000 miles with Costco receipt for about 1/2 price. Guy was moving to Florida.
Most on here and other forums say the CC2 is actually very quiet. Yes an MPG hit though. They also say excellent wet so there is that.
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Since my wife’s Premier LTX are discontinued (we’re on our 2nd set—first prematurely wore and started at 8.5/32. Second set had 10/32”), I’d be curious if they will make these in her size (255/60-19). They do make the original Defenders. I’m not comfortable with cross climates getting a B traction rating. It’s Michelin themselves rating the B.
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Yeah I don’t know what to make of the various traction & treadwear ratings. It’s all self reported anyway and I don’t think anyone would say Defenders have *MORE* traction then a CC2…
