MB GL350 BlueTec (om642) oil recommendation

[kschachn]

First off, it is Noack, not NOACK. And it is Mobil, not Mobile. After that, the Noack measurement is not done after three hours it is done after an hour. So his numbers are bogus.

The most important thing however is that the oil you list is the wrong specification. It should be Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 which carries the following Mercedes-Benz approvals:

MB-Approval 229.31
MB-Approval 229.51
MB-Approval 229.52

This oil is a completely different oil than what you list and has an HTHS of 3.5. So "it sounds like Mobile 1 is one to avoid" is based on a false premise like much of your post.

Once you start from there you will have a better chance of getting suggestions for a specific oil choice.

 

[maintenanceMan]

I've always run 5-7,000 mile intervals on my om642 Silver. I get oil from autozone on the cheap. I just got 2, 5 gallon buckets of Rotella T6 for 40.00 each. There is also a rebate on them for 35.00. I've got close to 200k miles on it now and fuel economy is actually still improving though it has gotten louder. If you check your local stores, you can probably still find the HDEO on the cheap at autozone. Check the forum thread for deals, etc. If you need to research specs a little bit, I recommend using the "lubrizol relative performance comparison tool to compare specs"(type that in your search engine).

 

[SilverFL]

I'm not a mechanic, however this guy claims he was. He sent me the service MB bulletins and pictures to explain what happens.

I did call and speak with him, he does seem very knowledgeable about the subject. I also called Exxon Mobil to see if I could verify any of the details and I must say that while they were mostly nice and took the time to try to answer my questions, their answers weren't consistent, It left me with the feeling that this mechanic may have some important points that ExxonMobil would never in their right mind come out and say. They said at first said it costs money to list the API and ACEA, then said it didn't. They said the MB testing for oil exceeds API & ACEA, but didn't explain why they wouldn't list that accolade if true. The last tech mentioned that the API rating for "SN" (gas engines) that is on the bottle is because there is more demand for gas engines consumers to justify the classification🙄..? Anyway I also am going to research more of what ExxonMobil techs mentioned to me on the phone. The people answering my questions were people who are supposedly educated in this field, not a random phone jockey with a script.

Because I am not a (very experienced) Mercedes mechanic, I cannot find any real faults in this claims, his claims seem to point to real world results, seen all around in BlueTecs being sold. He mentions good points, when the Noack score is good, it is quite an accomplishment and any company would be proud to display it in their product data sheets.

To each their own, but to this guy's credit, he has his email address posted and anyone who is curious can pick up the phone and call him, as I did.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by SilverFL
I also called Exxon Mobil to see if I could verify any of the details and I must say that while they were mostly nice and took the time to try to answer my questions, their answers weren't consistent, It left me with the feeling that this mechanic may have some important points that ExxonMobil would never in their right mind come out and say. They said at first said it costs money to list the API and ACEA, then said it didn't. They said the MB testing for oil exceeds API & ACEA, but didn't explain why they wouldn't list that accolade if true. Anyway I also am going to research more of what ExxonMobil techs mentioned to me on the phone. The people answering my questions were people who are educated in this field, not a random person with a script.

Somehow I'm struggling with the veracity of that conversation. If you called ExxonMobil and asked what oil was recommended or suitable for the vehicle in question they will only suggest one that carries the required approval for the engine. They will not discuss "accolades" or other superfluous information. I'm not sure how the whole money thing means anything here either. ExxonMobil is one of the most honest companies in terms of obtaining actual approvals and certifications and listing them accurately on their PDS and containers, unlike some boutique blenders that do complain about costs and subsequently use that excuse for obfuscating the truth in their literature.

An oil being SN licensed has nothing to do with whether it has the required MB approval. Why are you still fixated on that?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by SilverFL
I also called Exxon Mobil to see if I could verify any of the details and I must say that while they were mostly nice and took the time to try to answer my questions, their answers weren't consistent, It left me with the feeling that this mechanic may have some important points that ExxonMobil would never in their right mind come out and say. They said at first said it costs money to list the API and ACEA, then said it didn't. They said the MB testing for oil exceeds API & ACEA, but didn't explain why they wouldn't list that accolade if true. Anyway I also am going to research more of what ExxonMobil techs mentioned to me on the phone. The people answering my questions were people who are educated in this field, not a random person with a script.

Somehow I'm struggling with the veracity of that conversation. If you called ExxonMobil and asked what oil was recommended or suitable for the vehicle in question they will only suggest one that carries the required approval for the engine. They will not discuss "accolades" or other superfluous information. I'm not sure how the whole money thing means anything here either. ExxonMobil is one of the most honest companies in terms of obtaining actual approvals and certifications and listing them accurately on their PDS and containers, unlike some boutique blenders that do complain about costs and subsequently use that excuse for obfuscating the truth in their literature.

An oil being SN licensed has nothing to do with whether it has the required MB approval. Why are you still fixated on that?


For your enjoyment. Start at 4th paragraph. For $200 donation to his grandchild's college fund he'll send you all the documentation you want.


http://www.stephensservice.com/bluetec-diesel-issuesproblems/

 

[SilverFL]

I called ExxonMobil to see if I could either discount the claim or verify the man's claim. Btw, they absolutely did discuss these questions with me and they will with anyone who calls.

I am "fixated" on the API, ACEA classifications because that is what they are provided for. I understand that these classifications serve to explain to consumers what the oil is most appropriate for. If I see only an "SN" that means it is appropriate for gasoline engines, I have a Turbo Diesel. I've read that the ACEA approval is C2 & C3, which I read is for light duty Non-Turbocharged engines. JASO DL-1, also is for light duty Non-Turbocharged diesels. These little details matter to me and should to anyone who may be unable to pay for the many thousands of dollars in future (preventable) repairs.

When a company just says "believe me" and to discount the independent verification, that should send up a red flag for any independent thinker.

If this retired mechanic wants to charge you money for additional information that is his right. That being said, I don't see much of a need, as he has plenty of information on his site and he sent me additional information at no cost.

If you work for the oil company or just don't care about possible problems I am not directing my posts to you. My post was created to find constructive feedback, such as other more suitable oil alternatives. If someone has a newer BluTec engine and not using the Mobil factory oil, that is working for them I would be glad to hear from them.

If you are just into non-constructive criticism, spare is all the time.

 

[kschachn]

So what is the required Mercedes-Benz approval called out for the vehicle/engine, and which oils carry actual approval? API and ACEA specs are not relevant here, at least to the manual requirements. Mercedes-Benz approval is what is "provided for". All those other certs, approvals and licenses are fine but aren't what Mercedes-Benz dictates in their manual.

I don't work for any oil company. I'm just trying to decipher your post and address some tangents you seem to focus on.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by SilverFL
I called ExxonMobil to see if I could either discount the claim or verify the man's claim. Btw, they absolutely did discuss these questions with me and they will with anyone who calls.

I am "fixated" on the API, ACEA classifications because that is what they are provided for. I understand that these classifications serve to explain to consumers what the oil is most appropriate for. If I see only an "SN" that means it is appropriate for gasoline engines, I have a Turbo Diesel. I've read that the ACEA approval is C2 & C3, which I read is for light duty Non-Turbocharged engines. JASO DL-1, also is for light duty Non-Turbocharged diesels. These little details matter to me and should to anyone who may be unable to pay for the many thousands of dollars in future (preventable) repairs.

When a company just says "believe me" and to discount the independent verification, that should send up a red flag for any independent thinker.

If this retired mechanic wants to charge you money for additional information that is his right. That being said, I don't see much of a need, as he has plenty of information on his site and he sent me additional information at no cost.

If you work for the oil company or just don't care about possible problems I am not directing my posts to you. My post was created to find constructive feedback, such as other more suitable oil alternatives. If someone has a newer BluTec engine and not using the Mobil factory oil, that is working for them I would be glad to hear from them.

If you are just into non-constructive criticism, spare is all the time.



ACEA Cx oils meet the same turbocharging deposit requirements as ACEA Ax/Bx. . I don't think there's one light duty automotive diesel made since 2005 that is not turbocharged.

ACEA Cx is for gas/diesel. ACEA Ax is for gas, ACEA Bx is for diesel.

ACEA Oil Test Seq

I read the guys little blog post. He's incorrect with regards to C5 (I've posted the ACEA Sequencies) but may have a point with ACEA E9. E9 is for heavy duty diesel engines. However the E9 test sequence does not specifically mention turbo charging and appears to be primarily centered around soot induced wear.

 

[kschachn]

Here's the thing, You seem to be walking down the same path as the guy in the website, and the problem is when he says this:

Quote
As per the 2019 Sprinter Owners manual, the correct oil must have the appropriate ACEA or API certifications for a Turbocharged BlueTec diesel. The correct API approval is "CK-4". The correct ACEA approval is "E9" or "C5". As per Mercedes, one or the other must be on the label. These are the highest approvals a diesel oil can have. You will not find these approvals on the Mobil One 5W/30 ESP or the Mercedes-Benz branded oil. The wrong oil causes most of the trouble. If you don't believe it, call Mobil at 1.800.275.6624. You can call Mercedes at 1.800.FOR.MERC. Ask them exactly this question. "Does the ACEA or API approve Mobil One 5W/30 ESP or the Mercedes-Benz branded 5W/30 oil for the OM642 BlueTec diesel?" "Do these oils meet the Mercedes-Benz New Vehicle Limited Warranty requirements published in the 2019 Sprinter Owners Manual for a OM642 BlueTec diesel?" The answer is "no", but call them and you can hear it from them. If they say "yes", ask them if they will put that in writing? I explain this in the article about diesel oil.


The reality is that the 2019 Sprinter manual says this:

Quote
Quality and capacity of engine oil

The containers of the various engine oils are
marked with the ACEA (Association of European
Automotive Manufacturers) and/or API
(America Petroleum Institute) classifications.

Only use approved engine oils that correspond
to the MB Specifications for operating
fluids and the prescribed ACEA and/or API
classifications named below. Engine oils of
other grades are not permissible and can
result in the loss of the New Vehicle Limited
Warranty. The use of other engine oils not
approved for diesel engines can damage the
diesel particulate filter (DPF).

MB-Freigabe or MB-Approval

Gasoline engine MB-Freigabe or MB-Approval
M274 229.5

Diesel engines MB-Freigabe orMBApproval
OM642/OM651 228.51, 229.31,
229.51, 229.52

So while the text does mention ACEA and API approvals, the only ones listed in the subsequent text are oils that have a particular Mercedes-Benz approval. And as far as that goes the Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 oil (for the diesel engine) has the required approval as noted in the manual.

So if you call ExxonMobil and/or Mercedes-Benz, they say this information is incorrect and you should use an oil that has an approval or specification not in the owner's manual?

 

[JAG]

Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 is indeed on the MB 229.52 approval list, according to MB themselves.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.52_en.html

 

[Bailes1992]

There's a huge amount of poor information coming from SilverFL.

ACEA C1, C2, C3, C4 and C5 are all up-to-date specifications. One is not 'better' than the other, they are all separate specifications suitable for certain engines.

ACEA C* specifications are suitable for certain light duty diesel applications and petrol/gas engines. They are designed to reduce the risk of damage to emission control equipment should they be burned.

The OM642 is a light duty diesel engine that Mercedes has specified an oil that is approved to one of the following: MB 228.51, MB 229.31, MB 229.51 or MB 229.52. They have not specified any ACEA requirement.

Mobil1 ESP 5w30 is approved to MB 229.31, MB 229.51 and MB 229.52. Therefore, it is perfectly suitable for an OM642 at the appropriate intervals. The fact that Mobil1 ESP 5w30 also meets ACEA C2 & C3 or API SM/SN or API CF is totally irrelevant. This oil has been sent to MB who have independently tested this oil and deemed it suitable for an OM642.

That however, is not to say an oil that meets ACEA C3 or ACEA E6 or E9 or C4 wouldn't be suitable but the interval may need to be reduced to suit or regular oil analysis should take place to check that nothing untoward is going on.

One thing for sure, ACEA C5 is not suitable for this engine.

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted by Bailes1992


The OM642 is a light duty diesel engine that Mercedes has specified an oil that is approved to one of the following: MB 228.51, MB 229.31, MB 229.51 or MB 229.52. They have not specified any ACEA requirement.


That however, is not to say an oil that meets ACEA C3 or ACEA E6 or E9 or C4 wouldn't be suitable but the interval may need to be reduced to suit or regular oil analysis should take place to check that nothing untoward is going on.


If that is correct.....and I would be an owner of that ML....I would choose HDEO with E6/E9 + MB 228.51...

Some has saps levels around 1.1-1.2.....some like shell Rimula r6LM has it around 9.x...


I am fiddeling with that oil option for my Yaris wich is DPF equiped.... ACEA C3 oils all have saps levels set @0.8....so 0.9x is not too far away...and will not ploug my DPF....

Plus another benifit of HDEO over the PCMO is.... I got that expirience in my LC.... Wich WAS a heavy oil burner when I got it....Rimula r6M (its EUR03 engine thats why FULL saos oil) in it cleaned its piston rings...and now it doesnt consume any oil enymore

 

[Rollins]

Did not bother reading all the blah by StephensService Centre .

There is no way MB would use non-MB approved oil as Factory Fill or would recommend one such as Service Fill.

Sprinters used Mobil Delvac LE 5w-30 (MB 228.5; MB 228.51 as Factory Fill

https://www.novitron.gr/en/about-us...best-mercedes-benz-sprinter-factory-fill

http://www.chemcorp.co.uk/creo_files/upload/news/meredes_sprinter-_factory_fill.pdf

This has been discussed before on BITOG.

Even if they've switched to another FF oil it will have MB approval .

MB have always favoured HDEOs in their light duty vans. Some oil manufacturers' recommendations follow this too. I doubt they'd use a light-duty oil as FF (they'd opt for 228.51).
http://autoworksco.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/M-BSpec_Engine_Oils.pdf

 

[Rollins]

P.S

MB service oil categories :

- might be and are based on some ACEA limits

- OEM >ACEA . Always more demanding .

- MB and other OEM categories are being regularly updated. Your 229.5 of y.2009 is not your 229.5 of y.2012 for example. Tests being dropped, introduced, limits modified .

For Euro manufacturers OEM specs >ACEA as minimum base >API (and you can completely disregard the last one).

https://www.aftonchemical.com/Afton/media/PdfFiles/Afton-Chemical-Spec-Handbook-September-2019.pdf

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Bailes1992
There's a huge amount of poor information coming from SilverFL.

Which is coming from that guy's site where he wants to charge you $200 for insider information...

Quote
As per the 2019 Sprinter Owners manual, the correct oil must have the appropriate ACEA or API certifications for a Turbocharged BlueTec diesel. The correct API approval is "CK-4". The correct ACEA approval is "E9" or "C5". As per Mercedes, one or the other must be on the label. These are the highest approvals a diesel oil can have. You will not find these approvals on the Mobil One 5W/30 ESP or the Mercedes-Benz branded oil. The wrong oil causes most of the trouble. If you don't believe it, call Mobil at 1.800.275.6624. You can call Mercedes at 1.800.FOR.MERC. Ask them exactly this question. "Does the ACEA or API approve Mobil One 5W/30 ESP or the Mercedes-Benz branded 5W/30 oil for the OM642 BlueTec diesel?" "Do these oils meet the Mercedes-Benz New Vehicle Limited Warranty requirements published in the 2019 Sprinter Owners Manual for a OM642 BlueTec diesel?" The answer is "no", but call them and you can hear it from them. If they say "yes", ask them if they will put that in writing? I explain this in the article about diesel oil.

This is a gaggle of misunderstanding and appears to be deliberate misinformation in order to generate hits to his site and revenue for his college fund.

1. No, the correct oil must have the appropriate Mercedes-Benz approval.
2. There is no correct API approval listed in the manual.
3. As per Mercedes, the Mercedes-Benz approval must be on the label.
4. These aren't the "highest" approvals an oil can have but are instead the correct ones.
5. No, you will not find the approvals on the label but neither will you find other ones that aren't relevant to this application.
6. Why would I call Exxon-Mobil or Mercedes and ask them why an oil doesn't carry a cert not relevant for my requirements?
7. Yes the oil meets the Mercedes-Benz New Vehicle Limited Warranty requirements published in the 2019 Owner's Manual for a OM642 BlueTec diesel. The answer is "yes".
8. It is already in writing when it lists the applicable Mercedes-Benz approval on the container and in their literature.

 

[loneryder]

Originally Posted by kschachn
So what is the required Mercedes-Benz approval called out for the vehicle/engine, and which oils carry actual approval? API and ACEA specs are not relevant here, at least to the manual requirements. Mercedes-Benz approval is what is "provided for". All those other certs, approvals and licenses are fine but aren't what Mercedes-Benz dictates in their manual.

I don't work for any oil company. I'm just trying to decipher your post and address some tangents you seem to focus on.

If you look at the 2019 Sprinter OM642 manual, it states to use only oils meeting SK/E9 approval. The oil must have that on the label. It seems that MB has changed their tune. The irony is that they come from the factory with Mobil 1 5-30 esp. I happen to believe Mr. Stephens. It's your right not to. He has spent his whole career working on MB's. When he retired he had so many people calling him that he decided to start charging for advice. He has a lot of info free but if you pay he will serve as your advisor/advocate in trying to get your car fixed.
I ran Mobil 1 5-40esp in mine(no longer available) for 9500 miles, mostly highway. It had a TBN of 2 and high iron. I'm changing to Mobil 1 TDT which meets SK/E9 and has a good amount of zinc for the timing chains. Folks on the Benzworld site have had good service with it and it hasn't clogged up any DPF's.

 

[loneryder]

You seem to have an erection for Mr. Stephens. And you don't even have a 642. I would rather protect my $30k engine than the DPF. I can have it cleaned for $200. I'm not against DPF's, just for protecting my 642 engine.

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted by loneryder

I ran Mobil 1 5-40esp in mine(no longer available) for 9500 miles, mostly highway. It had a TBN of 2 and high iron. I'm changing to Mobil 1 TDT which meets SK/E9 and has a good amount of zinc for the timing chains. Folks on the Benzworld site have had good service with it and it hasn't clogged up any DPF's.


High ZDDP is not your friend here....

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...additives-are-best-for-timing-chain-life

 

[kschachn]

I have no idea what SK/E9 approval is. What I posted was copied and paste it directly out of the online Sprinter manual. Do you have something different?

And any dude that creates a website with walls of text saying essentially nothing and then wants to charge you $200 to get the answer is worth nothing in my book. Sorry.

 

[loneryder]

Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by loneryder

I ran Mobil 1 5-40esp in mine(no longer available) for 9500 miles, mostly highway. It had a TBN of 2 and high iron. I'm changing to Mobil 1 TDT which meets SK/E9 and has a good amount of zinc for the timing chains. Folks on the Benzworld site have had good service with it and it hasn't clogged up any DPF's.


High ZDDP is not your friend here....

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...additives-are-best-for-timing-chain-life

1100 ppm ZDDP is high???