Maxlife ATF & Honda DW-1 suitability

[AcuraTL]

For what its worth I swapped out the Z1 fluid before the car had 20,000 miles because it was in awful condition. The car was not a year old at the time, car is an '06 and the first ATF change was in '06. Immediately I went with a synthetic (Amsoil ATD) then Redline D4 and then Redline racing (type F). No leaks whatsoever more than 100,000 miles after that first synthetic change. The engine got synthetic at 3,000 miles and the only leak I have is the drain plug. The last 2 changes it's been slightly wet but that's my fault, it's still on the factory crush washer. I'll be spending the $.25 at the next oil change.

Almost forgot, the front valve cover gasket was just barely weeping in one spot which got replaced when I did the valve adjustment around 120k

Synthetic causing leaks in these cars is a myth.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I would NOT use a synthetic product either.

The best performing products are usually synthetic (like most OEM formulas). Why would you not want that?


Because Honda didn't design or spec their transaxle seals with synthetic in mind. I think the performance part is not a problem, but I would be VERY concerned about the seals and Maxlife compatibility with them. Fact is there are very practical reasons for NOT using the most modern specs on older vehicles.

 

[AcuraTL]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I would NOT use a synthetic product either.

The best performing products are usually synthetic (like most OEM formulas). Why would you not want that?


Because Honda didn't design or spec their transaxle seals with synthetic in mind. I think the performance part is not a problem, but I would be VERY concerned about the seals and Maxlife compatibility with them. Fact is there are very practical reasons for NOT using the most modern specs on older vehicles.


Like I said, I swapped out the factory Z1 in my '06 TL for a synthetic before the car had 20k on it still in '06. I've put more than 100k since that first fill with synthetic and it doesn't leak any fluid whatsoever. The engine got synthetic at 3,000 miles and no leaks.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: AcuraTL
If you do just the fluid with old switches the shift quality can degrade. If the switches are new and you use DexIII or equivalent shift quality is excellent.


I have replaced the pressure switches, but I don't think I've used MaxLife since I did that. I've only been using the Castrol and DW-1 since I replaced the switches.

For what it's worth, I really couldn't tell a difference after I replaced the switches. I assume these are the switches you are talking about, right? I think they were the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches.

 

[kjbock]

I am debating between DW-1 and VM right now for our Odyssey. It has around 30,000 miles and I can't decide which one to pick. Does anyone know if DW-1 is a synthetic? I ilke that VM is a synthetic and is cheaper.

 

[mclasser]

Originally Posted By: kjbock
I am debating between DW-1 and VM right now for our Odyssey. It has around 30,000 miles and I can't decide which one to pick. Does anyone know if DW-1 is a synthetic? I ilke that VM is a synthetic and is cheaper.


DW-1 isn't synthetic. I would use the OEM stuff while you're under warranty.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: AcuraTL
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I would NOT use a synthetic product either.

The best performing products are usually synthetic (like most OEM formulas). Why would you not want that?


Because Honda didn't design or spec their transaxle seals with synthetic in mind. I think the performance part is not a problem, but I would be VERY concerned about the seals and Maxlife compatibility with them. Fact is there are very practical reasons for NOT using the most modern specs on older vehicles.


Like I said, I swapped out the factory Z1 in my '06 TL for a synthetic before the car had 20k on it still in '06. I've put more than 100k since that first fill with synthetic and it doesn't leak any fluid whatsoever. The engine got synthetic at 3,000 miles and no leaks.


I'm really speaking of cars made earlier than that.

For Honda vehicles made before 2002 or so I would be leery.

I would DEFINITELY NOT use synthetic ATF for ANY Honda vehicle made before 1998.

 

[SevenBizzos]

Today I finished D&F #1 with Amsoil on my 65k Accord ('06). I responded in another thread that I had a slight "shudder" between 1st and 2nd gears. That is gone and the trans appears to be shifting smoother. I'm probably doing D&F #2 in a month or so.

 

[mclasser]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I'm really speaking of cars made earlier than that.

For Honda vehicles made before 2002 or so I would be leery.

I would DEFINITELY NOT use synthetic ATF for ANY Honda vehicle made before 1998.


My 02 suffered the infamous Honda transmission failure at 135K miles and I've done 3 drain & fills on the rebuilt unit with DW-1 since then. My car was originally spec'd for Z1 but is running great on DW-1. I like how the shifts feel, particularly in cold weather when the car is first driven in the morning.

 

[Quakish]

lots of people on www.odyclub.com using maxlife on their 99-04 vans. no reports of seal issues, as far as i know.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Because Honda didn't design or spec their transaxle seals with synthetic in mind. I think the performance part is not a problem, but I would be VERY concerned about the seals and Maxlife compatibility with them. Fact is there are very practical reasons for NOT using the most modern specs on older vehicles.

Well, very few (if any?) OEMs agree with you.

If you have a DexIII application then guess what? DexVI is what you use now.

You have a Z-1 application? It now gets DW-1.

An older Toyota T-IV? Get ready for WS!

Chrysler with ATF+3? Goto +4.

... and on and on. Synthetic for everyone!

All I can say for sure is that the 94 Honda had no issue with synthetic ATF (Mobil 1, DexVI, MaxLife) or synthetic engine oil. The 2002 Subaru has had many great years with synth in the front & rear diff, transmission, power-steering and engine. No problems, no complaints but several benefits.

I've had the same story with plenty of other vehicles going back to 86 so I do have a hard time swallowing your blanket statement.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: martinq
]
Well, very few (if any?) OEMs agree with you.

You have a Z-1 application? It now gets DW-1.

You do know that DW-1, at least in the USA is NOT a synthetic product?

Anecdotal evidence does not make your argument valid on all models.

The fact is that when Honda's were made that required Z-1 it wasn't a synthetic and of course until the past few years a synthetic ATF for most of the major manufacturers regular cars lines was VERY rare, unless we are talking about Audi, BMW, or Mercedes or similar.

You can't deny that OEMs spec seals, and for that matter the functioning of their transmissions for general requirements, if you consider that Honda uses a unique transmission design it would seem to be even more wise to keep the basics of the product you are using close to the OEM spec. But things like seals were spec'd when Honda had no consideration of using a synthetic product.

As I mentioned earlier I would not be concerned about the general performance of synthetic products in the unit itself, but more concerned about seals, especially older seals not holding up to the newer technology fluid.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
As I mentioned earlier I would not be concerned about the general performance of synthetic products in the unit itself, but more concerned about seals, especially older seals not holding up to the newer technology fluid.

Your best bet, regarding old, hard seals, is to use a modern, performance fluid like MaxLife. They usually include conditioners and swelling agents to help get more life from the seal and reduce leaks. It's usually poor maintenance and low-quality fluids that cause the seals to fail in the first place.

Solution? Use good (synthetic) fluids and keep up on your maintenance.