Originally Posted By: tswm
Speaking as a somewhat experienced consumer (also having long considered the various arguments put forth in BITOG),
and knowing that synthetic motor oils were originally intended for cold weather operation, and having been very recently apprised of scientific evidence that PAO is even less desirable than I previously had supposed (although Group IV-PAO based oils are believed to better combat the harmful effects of engine running with blown head gasket) because of thinner oil film than mineral oil film, well okay, yet stronger oil film than mineral oil film, more than ever I tend to be more fond of the Group III pseudo synthetics (no derision intended) especially the SOPUS products (they do work pretty much as advertised, are usually convenient to purchase), and the ester versions of the Group V full synthetic, and because you drive in a cold weather region but not in one that is subject to "polar vortex", neither Arctic climate, I think it is safest for your motor overall (and easy on your wallet too) running a 100% 10W30 Group III/III+ motor oil, especially either QSUD 10W30 or PP 10W30, yes, year round in your circumstance.
I say, wait for New PP with GTL 5W30 UOA to show up in BITOG. I THINK I recently saw in person that very bottle, and it said ACEA A5/B5, but my recollection is not clear on that point. Of course, you can visit the Pennzoil site for Internet verification.
If there were only one version of the old PP 5W30 (now being displaced by New PP with GTL PurePlus), it would be one thing, but there were at least two versions prior to New PP with GTL being introduced this year in Jan/Feb. The earlier of the two Old PP 5W30, was rated at both A1/B1 and A5/B5, and it seems to me this is what really made the reputation of greatness for SOPUS synthetic oil products in general. I have never read of any UOA of that oil, that was poor. But recently I have seen at least one poor PP 5W30 UOA, and I'm afraid that car was speced at 10W30, and also that PP 5W30 was the latest of the two Old PP 5W30, the one whereon it is printed 1 dexos APPROVED: on the back of that Dexos1 bottle, it says only A1/B1 a Mainline lubricants spec, but not the high performance engine Upper Mainline lubricants spec of A5/B5. I'm afraid the same pattern holds for the QSUD. And because you almost certainly will not be able to find enough quantities of the old PP 5W30 carrying the A5/B5 spec, for all these reasons plus the fact that you are not afflicted with "polar vortex", even though you drive in Canada, I strongly believe that you are good to go with QSUD/PP 10W30, the tried and proven stuff. My opinion, in part based on personal experience.
Now if we are talking about a 2013/2014 Honda Civic, for example, which is speced in the USA market for 0W20, and I suppose in Canada too, then absolutely you are safe to run the Old PP 5W30 bearing the Dexos1 message, only rated at A1/B1.
Originally Posted By: Verminator
You are not the first person to mention this MoS2 stuff. I'm not clear really on what it is and what its purpose is? I don't have any leaks with regular M1 and it uses mayby half a litre/quart per OCI. I'm also not really intersted in extended OCI, I'm happy sticking with the manufacturers OCI of 5,00km, and I'm getting excellent gas milega right now so my ONLY issue is the noise.
I seem to have read on BITOG many times that the ONLY thing that should go in the crank-case is oil. But I'm interested to learn more about what exactly this MoS2 is supposed to do and why it is used.
My research has yielded a finding that MoS2 molybdenum disulfide has been known, its benefits as lubricant, for a long time, I mean several decades on both sides of the Atlantic, used in greases, but for the more fluid motor oil, it seems there was much difficulty in keeping the MoS2 molecules suspended in the base oil, but Liqui Moly (also known as Lubro Moly) sells a civilian product that has solved that problem. It is believed that, I am paraphrasing what I have read, the MoS2 protects surfaces subject to extreme pressures by bonding to the metal on top of the phosphorus layers that come from ZDDP family of compounds. Btw there are other moly additives more soluble in oil, such as what is contained in PP/QSUD. I know from personal experience that LM MoS2 allows an engine to run more smoothly, as long as the engine oil is NOT formulated with the titanium additive, such Mobil Super 5000, Toyota 5W30 conventional, Kendall with Ti, Castrol with Ti. The original Mobil Super Synthetic also carried Ti, but the newer version of the same product line does not.
Not sure if any version of Mobil Super HM was formulated with the Ti additive. Probably, and probably there was only one version, the same way there's only one version of MS5K. MS5K has a different name in Canada, I think it's called Mobil Super 1000? 2000?
Clevy is the leading advocate of LM MoS2 in BITOG, he's had great success with it, and so have many others including myself, except I empirically discovered to my grief that there is indeed as taught in BITOG that there is such a thing as additive clash, for example, MoS2 additive clashing with Ti additive: I know for a fact that this clash causes drivability problems, no engine knocking/detonation, but you can immediately feel something is faulty with engine lubrication, therefore the transmission transmits power yes, but not in a smooth, normal way.
It sounds like you need MoS2 for your somewhat aged motor, if using your regular M1 5W30 SN GF-5.
You may or may not need MoS2, if using the THINNER versions of QSUD/Old PP 5W30 SN GF-5.
If using the New PP 5W30 PurePlus SN GF-5, I don't know what to anticipate, you should at least Internet verify that it is speced at A5/B5; if so, you probably don't need MoS2.
You do not need MoS2 for all practical purposes (but doesn't hurt to use it either), if using PP/QSUD 10W30 SN GF-5, as I know for a fact PP 10W30 is speced at A5.
The probability of that dreaded valve train acoustics not returning, is highest if you run any 10W30 oil. And in your situation, with cold (but not extremely cold) weather and the car being on the older side, to be friendly to the engine seals, at the same time to retard the rate of oil oxidation, a Group III synthetic that is easy to find and cost effective, the most exemplary type of this in North America is the SOPUS line of Group III synthetic oils as many in BITOG claim. They also produce the Shell synthetic, but harder to find. Therefore, either PP or QSUD.
Hope this helps. Gather information, then make an informed decision,
that your afflictions may cease.
Wow! THANK YOU! One of the best replies I've got yet!
I admit much of what you've said is way above my knowledge, but 2 things I'm interested in:
1. With me using M1 5W30 do you think that MoS2 stuff would assist in the noise issue? I have no idea if regular M1 5W30 has this clashing Ti stuff you refer to?
2. My engine is actually speced for 10W30 in the owners manual. I have only been using 5W30 due to the 101 information on this site with regards to start-ups. Should I be using M1 10W-30 instead of 5W-30? What I can't wrap my head around is the worst engine noise I had with M1 was during our coldest days of winter which was only 16F (minus 9C). Horrible hard startup, almost scraping noise. So if the synthetic oil at a lower "weight" (5W vs 10W) is suppose make those cold starts better and smoother, why all the noise? Now that it has started to warm up it's much better, but the lower weight and synthetic should have made those colder start-ups smoother, not rougher if all that info is true right? Obviously I'm missing something here. And it makes me even more nervous to consider ever using a 0W oil, even though the science seems to say that is the best yet for cold startups....
