I have an 07 Civic SI and an 05 Toy Highlander V6 both w +/- 30,000 miles. I bought 2 of each oils b/c of the 4 $10 rebates. Now which should I use in which car? My current plan is to have 7500 OCI for both but I'm a real NB to longer OCI's so I'll take any input....Thank you
M1 5-30 or M1 AFE 0-30??
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0w30 in winter makes more sense.. no? (haven't checked the specs.. but I'm assuming 0w30 is better for winter cranking)
This is an interesting question that I have grappled with myself. I found some information in the Korean MSDS's for Mobil 1. Korea is the only country that I know of (based on looking at various MSDS's) that requires disclosure of PAO in the MSDS. However they do not require disclosure of Group Esters from what I can tell.
Mobil 1 0w30 AFE (called "Fuel Economy" in Korea) revised 04-JUN-2008
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/AlternateFormat.aspx?DocumentID=641815&DocumentFormat=RTF
1-DECENE, TETRAMER AND TRIMER HYDROGENATED 68649-12-7 50-60% (This is PAO 4)
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 147880-09-9 1-5%
Trade Secret 01 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 02 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 03 Trade Secret 10-20%
Trade Secret 04 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 05 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 06 Trade Secret 0.1-1%
Trade Secret 07 Trade Secret 0.1-1%
Mobil 1 5w30 revised 05-JAN-2009
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/AlternateFormat.aspx?DocumentID=635950&DocumentFormat=RTF
1-DECENE, TETRAMER AND TRIMER HYDROGENATED 68649-12-7 30-40% (PAO 4)
CALCIUM HYDROXIDE 1305-62-0 0.1-1%
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 147880-09-9 1-5%
Base Oil 1 72623-87-1 30-40% (hydro-treated/cracked mineral oil)
Trade Secret 01 Trade Secret 5-10%
Trade Secret 02 Trade Secret 5-10%
Trade Secret 03 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 04 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 05 Trade Secret 1-5%
Even though we don't know the complete list of ingredients, including any Group V Esters if applicable, I am inclined to go with the 0W-30.
Mobil 1 0w30 AFE (called "Fuel Economy" in Korea) revised 04-JUN-2008
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/AlternateFormat.aspx?DocumentID=641815&DocumentFormat=RTF
1-DECENE, TETRAMER AND TRIMER HYDROGENATED 68649-12-7 50-60% (This is PAO 4)
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 147880-09-9 1-5%
Trade Secret 01 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 02 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 03 Trade Secret 10-20%
Trade Secret 04 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 05 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 06 Trade Secret 0.1-1%
Trade Secret 07 Trade Secret 0.1-1%
Mobil 1 5w30 revised 05-JAN-2009
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/AlternateFormat.aspx?DocumentID=635950&DocumentFormat=RTF
1-DECENE, TETRAMER AND TRIMER HYDROGENATED 68649-12-7 30-40% (PAO 4)
CALCIUM HYDROXIDE 1305-62-0 0.1-1%
POLYOLEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE 147880-09-9 1-5%
Base Oil 1 72623-87-1 30-40% (hydro-treated/cracked mineral oil)
Trade Secret 01 Trade Secret 5-10%
Trade Secret 02 Trade Secret 5-10%
Trade Secret 03 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 04 Trade Secret 1-5%
Trade Secret 05 Trade Secret 1-5%
Even though we don't know the complete list of ingredients, including any Group V Esters if applicable, I am inclined to go with the 0W-30.
BTW, if the Mobil 1 0w30 MSDS does not "seal the deal" then take a look at this $10 off mail-in-rebate for up to two 5-gallon jugs of Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy oils. Many of the larger Walmart's have 0w30 in 5-quart jugs for about $22.00 before rebate.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Promotions/Promotions.aspx
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Promotions/Promotions.aspx
I like the 0W-xx oils too if I'm using a synthetic oil. From what I've gathered speaking with oil company reps the only time a 0W-xx oil might be a problem is if the car has leaks. No leaks go with the 0W-xx. JMO
Yes, I forgot to say that the price for each is the same, $22, at Walmart. So, I read your messages to say - IF the AFE 0-30 doesn't leak, it's somewhat "better" for a normal use veh in Connecticut.
Thank you!
Thank you!
If the engine is in good order and not leaking I would use the AFE 0W-30. I have a choice between 5W20 and 0W20 and I am using the 0W20 on Long Island, we're just about neighbors!
Welcome to BITOG!
Welcome to BITOG!
Just looking at the pour points and cold crank in the datasheet, I guessed the AFE had a bit more PAO and a dash of moly in the mix; looks like the oil of choice is AFE for any climate. I had the same decision to make for my next OC in the Yaris ( current fill is Ashland synpower (replacing Motul 8100) which is not working too well "on the road" for me, though I must say I'm having no tensioner sticking now, which is a plus in this engine.
I was surprised to see that Mobil 1's 5w30 and its AFE 0w30 don't meet the European ACEA's A5/B5 rating; they just meet A1/B1. You gotta go with Mobil 1's more expensive EP (Extended Performance) oil to get A5/B5 ratings. If I'm remembering right, Mobil 1 5w30 EP runs between $26 and $29 at Walmart for a 5-quart jug. Or for $18 to $20, you can get a 5-quart jug of Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 at Walmart, which meets ACEA A5/B5.
Either way, you won't go wrong with Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum. They're both fine oils.
Either way, you won't go wrong with Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum. They're both fine oils.
Yes, I had been using PP but the $10 rebates off $22 Mobil got me.
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...And with that great $10 coupon, the choice is simple: go with Mobil 1. Great oil and a great deal.
Originally Posted By: Built_Well
I was surprised to see that Mobil 1's 5w30 and its AFE 0w30 don't meet the European ACEA's A5/B5 rating; they just meet A1/B1. You gotta go with Mobil 1's more expensive EP (Extended Performance) oil to get A5/B5 ratings. If I'm remembering right, Mobil 1 5w30 EP runs between $26 and $29 at Walmart for a 5-quart jug. Or for $18 to $20, you can get a 5-quart jug of Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 at Walmart, which meets ACEA A5/B5.
Either way, you won't go wrong with Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum. They're both fine oils.
I don't know where you are getting your information, but on the Mobil 1 website (and on the bottles) it clearly states that regular Mobil 1 5w30 meets ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5w30.asp
It is true that 0w30 AFE is rated for ACEA A1,B1 only, and is clearly not designed for use in most European cars that specify ACEA A3, B3 (the only deference A5/B5 and A3/B3 is the viscosity rating). For A3/B3 (and B4) Mobil 1 0W-40 should be used. Mobil 1 does have a European Formula 0w30 that is different than the AFE version, and does meet A3/B3 specs, but it is not distributed in the USA.
Regular Mobil 1 is $22.00 for 5-quart jug at most Walmarts. M1 EP is $26.00.
I was surprised to see that Mobil 1's 5w30 and its AFE 0w30 don't meet the European ACEA's A5/B5 rating; they just meet A1/B1. You gotta go with Mobil 1's more expensive EP (Extended Performance) oil to get A5/B5 ratings. If I'm remembering right, Mobil 1 5w30 EP runs between $26 and $29 at Walmart for a 5-quart jug. Or for $18 to $20, you can get a 5-quart jug of Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 at Walmart, which meets ACEA A5/B5.
Either way, you won't go wrong with Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum. They're both fine oils.
I don't know where you are getting your information, but on the Mobil 1 website (and on the bottles) it clearly states that regular Mobil 1 5w30 meets ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5w30.asp
It is true that 0w30 AFE is rated for ACEA A1,B1 only, and is clearly not designed for use in most European cars that specify ACEA A3, B3 (the only deference A5/B5 and A3/B3 is the viscosity rating). For A3/B3 (and B4) Mobil 1 0W-40 should be used. Mobil 1 does have a European Formula 0w30 that is different than the AFE version, and does meet A3/B3 specs, but it is not distributed in the USA.
Regular Mobil 1 is $22.00 for 5-quart jug at most Walmarts. M1 EP is $26.00.
Mark888, you're right. I stand corrected. Mobil 1 5w30 is an even better oil than I thought. It meets both ACEA's A1/B1 and A5/B5 standard.
It's the AFE 0w30 that is A1/B1 and doesn't meet A5/B5.
It's the AFE 0w30 that is A1/B1 and doesn't meet A5/B5.
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Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Mark888, you're right. I stand corrected. Mobil 1 5w30 is an even better oil than I thought. It meets both ACEA's A1/B1 and A5/B5 standard.
It's the AFE 0w30 that is A1/B1 and doesn't meet A5/B5.
As I have mentioned in other threads, its hard to say one oil is better than another because they often involve trade-offs. M1 5w30 offers better high temperature engine protection, but M1 0w30 AFE provides better fuel economy and reduced friction of internal engine parts.
It's not as simple as M1 0w30 does meet A5/B5 specifications, because it was designed specifically to not meet those specs in order to provide better fuel economy and reduced friction.
Mark888, you're right. I stand corrected. Mobil 1 5w30 is an even better oil than I thought. It meets both ACEA's A1/B1 and A5/B5 standard.
It's the AFE 0w30 that is A1/B1 and doesn't meet A5/B5.
As I have mentioned in other threads, its hard to say one oil is better than another because they often involve trade-offs. M1 5w30 offers better high temperature engine protection, but M1 0w30 AFE provides better fuel economy and reduced friction of internal engine parts.
It's not as simple as M1 0w30 does meet A5/B5 specifications, because it was designed specifically to not meet those specs in order to provide better fuel economy and reduced friction.
Thanks for the additional info!!!
I now plan to use the M1 5-30 in the Civic SI because I do run it harder. The AFE will go into the Highlander.
I now plan to use the M1 5-30 in the Civic SI because I do run it harder. The AFE will go into the Highlander.
Originally Posted By: Mark888
It's not as simple as M1 0w30 does [not] meet A5/B5 specifications, because it was designed specifically to not meet those specs in order to provide better fuel economy and reduced friction.
That makes sense, Mark. Thanks. Earlier, though, you wrote, "Mobil 1 does have a European Formula 0w30 that is different than the AFE version, and does meet A3/B3 specs, but it is not distributed in the USA."
So if Mobil 1's European version of 0w30 is able to meet an oil spec higher than A1/B1, why doesn't the American version?
Mobil 1 is clearly a good oil, better than I thought. I guess my suspicion with its oils stems from their gasoline stations not providing Top Tier gas (with the extra detergents found in each grade of gasoline). Chevron-Texaco, MFA, and Shell gasoline stations (and many others) provide Top Tier gasoline, but not Mobil.
I hope I'm not going to get into trouble because Mobil 1 is a valued sponsor here, but I honestly have these questions.
After I finish experimenting with the more expensive oils like RLI BioSyn, Amsoil, and Red Line, I'll probably use Mobil 1 5w30 again for a while since it's less expensive and meets A5/B5 specs, which as you say is similar to A3/B3 specs (which is what that Porsche guy with the web site recommends: to get at least A3/B3 oil), but why doesn't Mobil 1's U.S. version of 0w30 meet a spec higher than A1/B1 when its European version of 0w30 does? Thanks.
It's not as simple as M1 0w30 does [not] meet A5/B5 specifications, because it was designed specifically to not meet those specs in order to provide better fuel economy and reduced friction.
That makes sense, Mark. Thanks. Earlier, though, you wrote, "Mobil 1 does have a European Formula 0w30 that is different than the AFE version, and does meet A3/B3 specs, but it is not distributed in the USA."
So if Mobil 1's European version of 0w30 is able to meet an oil spec higher than A1/B1, why doesn't the American version?
Mobil 1 is clearly a good oil, better than I thought. I guess my suspicion with its oils stems from their gasoline stations not providing Top Tier gas (with the extra detergents found in each grade of gasoline). Chevron-Texaco, MFA, and Shell gasoline stations (and many others) provide Top Tier gasoline, but not Mobil.
I hope I'm not going to get into trouble because Mobil 1 is a valued sponsor here, but I honestly have these questions.
After I finish experimenting with the more expensive oils like RLI BioSyn, Amsoil, and Red Line, I'll probably use Mobil 1 5w30 again for a while since it's less expensive and meets A5/B5 specs, which as you say is similar to A3/B3 specs (which is what that Porsche guy with the web site recommends: to get at least A3/B3 oil), but why doesn't Mobil 1's U.S. version of 0w30 meet a spec higher than A1/B1 when its European version of 0w30 does? Thanks.
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Originally Posted By: Built_Well
So if Mobil 1's European version of 0w30 is able to meet an oil spec higher than A1/B1, why doesn't the American version?
Because in order to obtain the fuel economy objectives they are seeking in the Advanced Fuel Economy line, it is not possible for them to meet A3/B3 specs (or A5/B5 specs which are the same specs but different viscosity). A3/B3 is designed for extended OCI, and A1/B1 is designed for fuel economy.
Most new engines sold in the US these days specify 5W-20 oil for better fuel economy, and I don't think any of them that meet A3/B3 (or A5/B5) either.
As I have said before, I don't think it is a coincidence that Amsoil 100% Synthetic oils (which are advertised to provide OCI of up to 25,000 miles and to provide superior engine protection) are not API Starburst (Energy Conserving) certified.
Regarding the Mobil 1 European Formula 0W-30, I am not sure if it is made anymore since it appears to have been replaced by M1 0W-40, but there is an MSDS for the M1 0w30 (non-AFE version) on the EM MSDS website for Korea that has substantially different ingredients than the 0w30 AFE version.
BTW, there are also two versions of Mobil 1 5w30. The regular version sold in the US and the ESP Formula 5w30 that has been designed for many European cars and is engineered to help prolong the life and maintain the efficiency of Car Emission Reduction Systems in both diesel and gasoline powered vehicles.
So if Mobil 1's European version of 0w30 is able to meet an oil spec higher than A1/B1, why doesn't the American version?
Because in order to obtain the fuel economy objectives they are seeking in the Advanced Fuel Economy line, it is not possible for them to meet A3/B3 specs (or A5/B5 specs which are the same specs but different viscosity). A3/B3 is designed for extended OCI, and A1/B1 is designed for fuel economy.
Most new engines sold in the US these days specify 5W-20 oil for better fuel economy, and I don't think any of them that meet A3/B3 (or A5/B5) either.
As I have said before, I don't think it is a coincidence that Amsoil 100% Synthetic oils (which are advertised to provide OCI of up to 25,000 miles and to provide superior engine protection) are not API Starburst (Energy Conserving) certified.
Regarding the Mobil 1 European Formula 0W-30, I am not sure if it is made anymore since it appears to have been replaced by M1 0W-40, but there is an MSDS for the M1 0w30 (non-AFE version) on the EM MSDS website for Korea that has substantially different ingredients than the 0w30 AFE version.
BTW, there are also two versions of Mobil 1 5w30. The regular version sold in the US and the ESP Formula 5w30 that has been designed for many European cars and is engineered to help prolong the life and maintain the efficiency of Car Emission Reduction Systems in both diesel and gasoline powered vehicles.
Originally Posted By: buster
Right, in order to make an oil more fuel efficient, they keep the HT/HS low, which is why it only meets A1/B1 and not A3/B3.
Maybe in heaven we can have our cake and eat it too. In this life there are usually trade-offs.
Right, in order to make an oil more fuel efficient, they keep the HT/HS low, which is why it only meets A1/B1 and not A3/B3.
Maybe in heaven we can have our cake and eat it too. In this life there are usually trade-offs.
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