M1-102 - Anti Drain Valve failure?

[Sayjac]

The operative words specifically being, "if I'm interpreting you correctly,". As I read "prevent the sudden backflow of oil over the media after shut down", with no mention of bypass valve involvement upon restart.

With the added explanation of, 'filter in bypass on restart', and then the dislodged contaminates return to the engine, that explanation makes differentiation possible. And certainly didn't mean it to impune your explanation.

Not sure if geography lesson was intended for me, having lived there for decade, fairly well aware of the location's significance in this case.

 

[Pete C.]

Nah, the geography lesson was for those who wondered where I got my info from. You already knew where I work.

 

[Pete C.]

Nah, the geography lesson was for those who wondered where I got my info from. You already knew where I work.

 

[maersk]

Does this one seem any good?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Here are the words in a recent Purolator oil filter patent that talks about the function and purpose of an ADBV.

"When the pump or the engine are off, the conical round flap of the anti-drain back valve seats back on the circumferential seat on the metal threaded base plate to prevent the flow back from the inlet holes and thus retaining the oil in the filter housing. This arrangement helps prevent the filter from becoming dry, and prevents air from being trapped in the oil system. Thus, as the engine is started, the oil flow occurs immediately without any air pockets forming in the lubrication system."

 

[Sayjac]

 

[Cause4Alarm]

if you're tacoma is a 4.09 i have a very useful oil filter removal tip for you

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Cause4Alarm
if you're tacoma is a 4.09 i have a very useful oil filter removal tip for you


Let me guess ... punch a hole in the top and let it drain for awhile to prevent any oil mess. I've been doing that trick for many years.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Pete C.
You people do understand what the primary function of an anti-drainback valve is don't you?

It is to prevent the sudden backflow of oil over the media after shut down. This is to prevent washing trapped junk from returing to the oil stream. A secondary, and bonus, is it MIGHT hold the column of oil up, preventing lifters etc. from draining back. Oil will still backwash through the media if conditions are right.

Wix seems to disagree:

“Silicone Anti-Drainback Valve
Stays flexible in extreme temperatures, improves oil flow
and keeps oil in filter to prevent engine destroying dry starts.
Tests show that our silicone anti-drainback valve stays flexible
while competitive nitrile valves can harden and begin to leak.”

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
If I'm interpreting you correctly, you are basically saying what the minimopar filter study has advanced as the major reason for an adbv, and why silicone is advantageous to nitrile, especially over the long term.


Why would you come to that conclusion?? k'zine was a perseverating fool redundantly citing the perils of oil returning to the sump in the condition that it arrived in. He created a mythos of self glorifying canal swill that he hands out ..and others drink ..as holy water.

Quote:
He also says, (paraphrasing) that oil draining back from the inlet/dirty side of the filter would/could be harmful to the engine, thus the need for an adbv.


Yes. In most instances.

Quote:
If you were to ever run the oil through this filter backwards, these particles would be released into the engine almost all at once.


Yes, and when someone figures how to "run" oil backwards through a filter, this might be a concern, but until oil gets to magically jump up and crawl back through the passages that puke it out, I really don't see it happening.

Now if he means "rapid back flow" ..he might be on to something.


Here the k'zine clown shows that he thinks that one pass through a filter looks much different than another.

Quote:
This could allow oil from the clean side of the filter to seep back into the oil pan, but it wouldn't allow the dirty oil in the filter to seep back.



Does anyone think that there would be any statistical difference, as viewed in a continuum, between the oil on one side of a filter element or the other? That oil is significantly cleaner post filter vs. prefilter??

Anyone?? Anyone who's not going to count down to nano-particles??

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Wix seems to disagree:


Correction, Wix marketing disagrees. No OEM agrees with their specifications.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Here are the words in a recent Purolator oil filter patent that talks about the function and purpose of an ADBV.

"When the pump or the engine are off, the conical round flap of the anti-drain back valve seats back on the circumferential seat on the metal threaded base plate to prevent the flow back from the inlet holes and thus retaining the oil in the filter housing. This arrangement helps prevent the filter from becoming dry, and prevents air from being trapped in the oil system. Thus, as the engine is started, the oil flow occurs immediately without any air pockets forming in the lubrication system."



Incorrect. It may describe how THEY designed THAT ADBV. Not the function and purpose of ANY/ALL ADBV's as spec'd by the OEM.

Sorry, SoopahBoosah

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

Incorrect. It may describe how THEY designed THAT ADBV. Not the function and purpose of ANY/ALL ADBV's as spec'd by the OEM.


I'm sure Purolator doesn't know what the design purpose of an ADBV is ... same with WIX since they say basically the same thing as Purolator.

Guess I'll stick with Purolator or WIX then since they seem to have come up with an ADBV that works like it should.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
Wix seems to disagree:


Correction, Wix marketing disagrees. No OEM agrees with their specifications.

All makers that have anything to say about it advertise the purpose of the ADBV as a no dry-start device. That is surely it's primary purpose...and I (and the OP) prefer them to work.

 

[tigrpal]

Originally Posted By: Pete C.
You people do understand what the primary function of an anti-drainback valve is don't you?

It is to prevent the sudden backflow of oil over the media after shut down. This is to prevent washing trapped junk from returning to the oil stream. A secondary, and bonus, is it MIGHT hold the column of oil up, preventing lifters etc. from draining back. Oil will still backwash through the media if conditions are right.


So does this mean that most ADV's are not necessary since the filter media on most cars is hanging down and the inlet/outlet is up? or is there vacuum on shut down that could cause a sudden reverse flow?

I want to be 9,999,957!

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: tigrpal
So does this mean that most ADV's are not necessary since the filter media on most cars is hanging down and the inlet/outlet is up? or is there vacuum on shut down that could cause a sudden reverse flow?

I want to be 9,999,957!

No vacuum. Can siphon to some degree, but the ADBV is most effective on filters that are not base-end up.

Maybe Pete C. and Gary are privy to some current auto manufacturer engineering requirement papers the rest of us have never seen, but I can't see a problem with "rapid drainback" washing a load of dirt back into the oil pan, because it still has to leak down through the oil pump. I will go with what the filter manufacturers say about recommending an ADBV and why. I do not like cold start-up rattle like the OP had from an empty filter after only a short time.
I want a good seal. My 2 cents.

 

[Sayjac]

One would think that reputable filter manufacturers like Purolator and Wix would tell their marketing departments to stop advertising/stating prevention of dry-start as the primary function of an adbv, if it wasn't as such.

 

[BearZDefect]

I want a good seal from the ADBV too.

But I have noticed that in some applications, if the engine has been off overnight, the horizontal (or worse angle) oil filter mounted significantly above oil sump level comes off without a drip. And this is with several different filter brands, having both nitrile and silicone ADBVs. Example engines: Honda D15B7, Toyota 5SFE.

On other engines where the filter is closer to the sump level, upon removal after resting overnight some oil dribbles out, even with a nitrile ADBV. Example engine: Nissan VQ30DE with horizontal filter mount.

Example oil filters where I have used more than one of each: Purolator P1, Classic, and Total Grip. SuperTech. Fram.

I have used other brands (both cheap and premium) once each, sample too small.


My take from those experiences: 1. It depends more on the engine than the filter. 2. The oil does gradually drain down to the sump. 3. Of course, the slower it goes, the better!

 

[ltslimjim]

Interesting BearZ. I have a D15Z1 with the higher mounted oil filter relative to the sump. I've noticed a split second 'dry' like starting sound after the car sits for a while(overnight etc) from time to time. I don't know if that's a dry start, but I have been thinking that to be the case.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
1. It depends more on the engine than the filter.

In more cases than not.