Looking to get a first dirtbike.

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Southern,

It was not all that long ago that real dirt bikes hovered just over 200 pounds. 125cc two strokes (I'm not suggesting this) were 190 pounds! There is a reason for the incredible capability of these light weight bikes, and it has nothing to do with picking them up after a tip-over (we won't call it a crash.....
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The 4 stroke "revolution" resulted in some very heavy bikes. The engines are heavy, the batteries and starter motors are heavy, and they are less powerful when compared by displacement.

I initially thought you were talking about a true dirt bike, for off road use only. If that's still a possibility, then get something that will perform well in your riding area. You would not take a Ninja 300 street bike and ride it in the woods and expect good results. Yet, that's exactly the direction some people go when they pick a heavy bike with low quality "street" level components, not intended for real off road use. The pogo-stick ride is much the same.

If you want a dual sport bike, know that all of them (with the exception of the KTM's and a few other exotics) are a serious compromise towards street performance. Many are 90% street, 10% dirt by design. They are very overweight off road, and therefore, can be difficult to control. Especially in sand or mud.

One interesting indicator of off road prowess is fork tube diameter. Thin fork tubes are flexible, leading to poor handling. Another indicator is suspension travel in inches. Anything less than 10 inches of travel will not do a great job in the dirt.


Here is a 190 pound dirt bike and a good indication of how they look on rough terrain. You can't see the massive fork tubes, but they are there. Notice that the bike "looks like" it's on top of the dirt, not digging in and fighting the rider? While it's just a picture, that's the "feel" of a light weight bike.

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Here is a picture of a modified Suzuki DRZ400 in the sand. It's a typical 4 stroke dual sport. Notice it's not on top? That's how the weight feels in sand.

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Again, these are just pictures in my attempt to show the affect of dirt bike weight and how it "feels" to the rider. Obviously, the heavy bike is a real handful in the sand.

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The cheaper 50/50 dirt/road compromise is something like this,
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/yamaha/yamaha_xt200 82.htm
Yamaha%20XT200%2082.jpg

220lbs and low and slow. The trick is to find one in good shape, but they are out there. If you keep it in good shape, you can sell it for what you paid if you need to upgrade, or keep it if it does the job.
The forks will be a bit noodley for going fast offroad, but if you are out riding alone in the woods, they will give you a little reminder that you shouldn't be pushing too much anyways.
 
Just a thought:

http://www.ktm.com/us/freeride/freeride-250-r/

The KTM "Freeride" is a smaller, much lower, lighter, but still immensely capable "play bike". 204 pounds.

Interstingly, some KTM dealerships will register KTM's for the street. Mine is, and many new ones can be registered. Just don't expect to ride down the interstate on something like this and not get pulled over.... It's not capable of that.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/12/04/201...specifications/

My local KTM dealer offers excellent discounts too. Those guys are great.



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I read one review on it saying its really better as a starter bike. Its not really a good trials bike due to not enough flywheel and the clutch was not suitable for some reason. The riders good enough to do power moves like that, could also do them with a normal XCW bike. It was good for picking your way through rocky goat paths though.
I think I want a 200 or 250 xcw, or maybe even the 300. My YZ250 is fun to blast around on, but its gearing and motor is not good for low speed maneuvering.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I read one review on it saying its really better as a starter bike. Its not really a good trials bike due to not enough flywheel and the clutch was not suitable for some reason. The riders good enough to do power moves like that, could also do them with a normal XCW bike. It was good for picking your way through rocky goat paths though.
I think I want a 200 or 250 xcw, or maybe even the 300. My YZ250 is fun to blast around on, but its gearing and motor is not good for low speed maneuvering.


I think I read the same review, and that's why it popped into my mind. I don't know that I can recommend it, but I'm 100% sure it's more capable than an XT250.

As I mentioned, I ride a 380EXC, which is my main dirt bike. From time to time, I have others too. I prefer big bore 2 strokes. An ideal bike for me would be a CR500AFX, with a street legal tag. However, I think that would be a bit much for Southern's first dirt bike!

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Originally Posted By: southernjeeper


Again should I start s new thread about dual sports? Honda yamaha or Kawasaki ?


Nah, we feel ya bro. You want a dual sport you say? As noted, if not for the KTM or Husqvarna or other Euro bikes the dual sport are all mostly abysmal performance wise on either surface. While a dual sport gives you the capability to ride street the more time you spend on street the more you'll learn it's dangerous! Inattentive drivers texting and facebooking while "driving". If you don't ride in traffic it can be fun but anytime the volumes build so do the qty of driving facebookers.

That said, the Japanese dual sports other than The Yamaha WR250R or the upcoming Honda CRF1000L Africa Twin are old in their design, accelerate slowly on pavement, stop very very very poorly on pavement, wobble and vibrate excessively on pavement (mainly the 650 singles), refuse to change direction in the dirt from the rider's body "english", etc. The Suzuki V-Strom 650 or the Yamaha SuperTenere are very capable street rides (and considered ADV bikes) but would barely ply more than a gravel road. That said, for all their downfalls - they are great to learn on and downright abuse because they are very durable machines other than the Honda XR650L oil cooker.

Saw a picture of the XT200 from 1981 or so up there. Suzuki still sells their DR200SE. May be light-ish compared to the 300! pound CRF250L. I understand you want new because of the warranty. Regardless, I'd still get the XT225!!
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Can't bust 'em. I understand you want new so my rankings from 1-8 are:

1. Yam WR250R
2. Suz DRZ400 (weighs abt same as WR250R with more torque everywhere)
3. Kaw KLX250
4. Hon CRF250L (OMG the weight!)
5. Suz DR200SE (bike is small!)
6. Suz DR650SE (yes heavy but only a few more lbs than the Hon, awesome torque, low vibs for a 650).
7. Yam XT250 (I want my lighter 225 back!)
8. Yam TW200 (bike is small!)

This assumes no Euro bike$$$ of course. My dirt bike is a 16 year old Kaw KX250 two stroke MX bike modified for woods riding.
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I saw the grom in person Tuesday when I saw the TW200 and then the XT.

The GROM looks like a mini cruiser crotch rocket.

As for city driving. I'll pick my best routes but I do agree that this day and age it is not worth driving a dirtbike or any bike on the road even it being a mountain bike on the road due to too many phone busy fingers.

For the farm the dual sport will be the best place.

If I move. I'll just have to be in top awareness and pick what route and what times I would drive it.


I don't want to be deterred from not getting a bike because I have always had the itch to get one one day.


I believe that day is soon...very soon.


How hard is the driving test for a license? And the other is how long is the written test as in number of questions? I found a couple of practice tests online for free and they were very helpful.

I'm just curious on how hard the driving test is as the DMV watches very closely.



What's the biggest difference between the WR and XT? Since you put as number one? I do see it's got the four valves!
 
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Ah.. WR is liquid cooled and 4 valves and 6speed.


Darn... I might after to reconsider the WR over the XT. I won't outgrow it ever... It looks like a lot of fun. Especially on YouTube.
 
Originally Posted By: southernjeeper
Ah.. WR is liquid cooled and 4 valves and 6speed.


Darn... I might after to reconsider the WR over the XT. I won't outgrow it ever... It looks like a lot of fun. Especially on YouTube.


Read the shootout that motorcycle USA did on the KLX WRR and CRFL 250s. The WRR is more coin but pretty much worth it given the performance differences observed. They're for sale here on CL for $5K all day long with less than 4,000 miles. The motor is put together with tighter tolerances than the rest which gives is 27,000 mile valve adjustment intervals. Nice! It gives KTM like capability and performance for thousands less.
 
The street legal WR250R is an impressive machine. It's not light, but it has very high quality components, and therefore performs very well. Very revvy and very, very fun to ride. And quite capable for a street legal bike in the dirt.

The WR250F (not street legal) is even more impressive.

WR250R

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I rode a WR250 for 9 years. The only thing I recall having to fix was a fork seal. Never had to re-shim the valves, in spite of checking them every year. Traded it in on a WR450 in 2011.
 
So with that said jetstar... Should I just get the XT first. Run it a year and then trade it in or sell it and get the WR?

The WR does look like a fun bike and the components are well made. A great comparison in RideApart.com and motorcyclegeeks.com...



Any other people ridden a WR250R
 
Okay. I just went and talked to a better salesman that wasn't pushy or a d_ -_...


I am positively getting a XT instead of the WR and TW.


Seat was more comfy and I can flat foot easily with the XT.

As for a cool tid bit.. This salesman said he had a guy that has TWO Hondas. A 250L and a crf125f if not 150. For the magical price of $3,000. They are '09-10s.... They are low hours and also not ran hard. That is a very good possibility though thinking about it on the drive back that I would turn around and sell the 250L because the seat just isn't comfortable as the Yamaha.

So depending on budget I'll see what I find. The XT250 is probably FTW.

Unless I decide to get a used smaller dirt bike for farm to get better use to and then get the XT.



Maybe soon I will take the plunge and get new and get the XT.

I think I'm good for now for awhile.
 
Originally Posted By: southernjeeper
Okay. I just went and talked to a better salesman that wasn't pushy or a d_ -_...


I am positively getting a XT instead of the WR and TW.


Seat was more comfy and I can flat foot easily with the XT.

As for a cool tid bit.. This salesman said he had a guy that has TWO Hondas. A 250L and a crf125f if not 150. For the magical price of $3,000. They are '09-10s.... They are low hours and also not ran hard. That is a very good possibility though thinking about it on the drive back that I would turn around and sell the 250L because the seat just isn't comfortable as the Yamaha.

So depending on budget I'll see what I find. The XT250 is probably FTW.

Unless I decide to get a used smaller dirt bike for farm to get better use to and then get the XT.



Maybe soon I will take the plunge and get new and get the XT.

I think I'm good for now for awhile.






$3000 is a low price for both 'dem bikes. Go to seat concepts website and buy a more comfortable seat for the 250L. That 125F will be a fun blast around bike on your farm.
 
Originally Posted By: southernjeeper


I am positively getting a XT instead of the WR and TW.




You mentioned selling it and upgrading. The XT is very "old school" and I do not believe it will retain much value. Or, be easy to sell/trade in. The dealership will give you about 1/2 or less after one year, regardless of what they tell you now.

Edit: I just looked up an 2013 XT250 trade in value on KBB motorcycle. In my zipcode, the max trade in was $2500. The local dealer would likely offer $2000, or possibly even less.

There is one on Craigslist locally. $3900 used, with 400 miles. Been advertised for months. Nobody is going to pay that around here.

The seat comfort will be just fine on the WR250R. And, don't forget you can lower them.
 
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Yep.. The 125 at this dealer when I sat on a new one I told him this would be awesome to have at the farm.

The salesman said its been about 2months that this farmer has been trying to sell these two bikes. If I can I'm going to possibly try to get a loan and pay them off in less than a year or 6 months. Alone the 125f is close if not 3k right there. The 230L closer to $4,000?

I would want my mechanic good friend to look them over and drive both to check them out as well as what he would check out on them if he was buying them.

Maybe just maybe I get a small Honda and a dual sport that way. But I still would try to sell the 230 if possible soon after.

I mean $3k for 2 good bikes. That's just fate for my case.




Last note...


They had a GROM. If you don't know what a GROM is that Honda started to make a few years back. I sat on it, too..yesterday. The salesman said he has one and told me that it has to be the most fun bike in the showroom.

Street legal 125cc bike. A Mini bike capable of 60mph if not more. Go watch some YouTube videos and you will be impressed.


Now I was told about the GROM 2 months ago and now seeing it in a dealer again and actually looked at it this time it's impressive. Looks really cool. New, they are around $3k. That will be a bike I get used in a year or so just because.
 
Ya, them two bikes for $3K is a great buy. Don't buy new on your first bike. The 230L is also versatile. It will need some jetting so it's not so cold blooded (lean) but a good learner bike. If the farmer placed the bikes on CL long ago and they still haven't sold yet it does seem odd. Could be absolutely beat on? Any pics? Does farmer have title to both bikes or is there a lien placed on them by finance company?
 
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But used bikes can have problems the seller isn't honest about up front.

As for the two bikes. I'm guessing the farmer doesn't use Craigslist.

I think it's more like who he finds and the connection at the dealer.


If I were to get new and keep for a few years if not more it would be the XT250. Just because warranty on everything sounds great to me.



Side note----- wasn't the bike Sylvester Stallone gets on and runs through town in Rambo2 I think it was....an XT225 or 250.
 
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