Lightest current SM oil on the market?

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CATERHAM

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Some might suggest something like RP 0W-10 (which isn't SM rated)but it's not due to it's low VI of only 140.

When I say lightest I'm referring to "cold" start temps at room temperatures (22C) or less which is what matters.

The answer is Toyota and Honda's house brand 0W-20 oils.
The reason is two fold; they have very low 40C vis spec's (39.3 cSt and 40.4 cSt respectively) and very high viscosity indexes (214 and 203). So extrapolating down to temps well below freezing no oils are lighter.These are likely GP III based products and I haven't been able to get their ultra cold temp stats like MRV but those are academic figures for even most of us Canadians.
The
BTW the companies behind these oils are rumored to be ENEOS and Idemitsu but I don't know conclusively.
 
Has anybody looked into getting VOA's done on these two oils? Or pressed for more information on these oils from Toyota and Honda?
I bought the Petro Can 0W-20 because I get down to the -50C range at times in the winter. So far PC has the best cold temp stats that I can find available in Canada OTC. (I don't wanna hear "but RL has a PP of -65", they still have near identical MRV #'s for less money)
So until we get some cold start #'s on them they are out of the running for me. It sucks because I paid just over $8/L for the PC stuff and I know the Toyota stuff is cheaper. Some more in depth info would be awesome. Or a list of email addresses of people at Toyota and Honda, so I can help press for more info.
 
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Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Some might suggest something like RP 0W-10 (which isn't SM rated)but it's not due to it's low VI of only 140.

When I say lightest I'm referring to "cold" start temps at room temperatures (22C) or less which is what matters.

The answer is Toyota and Honda's house brand 0W-20 oils.
The reason is two fold; they have very low 40C vis spec's (39.3 cSt and 40.4 cSt respectively) and very high viscosity indexes (214 and 203). So extrapolating down to temps well below freezing no oils are lighter.These are likely GP III based products and I haven't been able to get their ultra cold temp stats like MRV but those are academic figures for even most of us Canadians.
The
BTW the companies behind these oils are rumored to be ENEOS and Idemitsu but I don't know conclusively.




CATER, do you know the CCS and MRV specs for the Toyota oils? Those viscosity indexes are insane!

The only oil I know of that might compete is the very heavily polymer laden Quakerstate winter oils.
 
while its true RL might have a similar MRV at -35.. what is their mrv at -45? its not linear.

so I'd have to say something with a PP of -65 is going to have a better mrv at -45 than something that has a PP of -50
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
while its true RL might have a similar MRV at -35.. what is their mrv at -45? its not linear.

so I'd have to say something with a PP of -65 is going to have a better mrv at -45 than something that has a PP of -50


Do we have these -45 (degC or degF ?) MRV #'s?
As it has been stated here by many, that PP is a rough estimate and is +or- 3degC. That is why I do not like to use PP as a deciding factor in the choice of my oils.
I understand your point that they (MRV) are not linear but without proper documentation I cannot base my decision on a hopeful guess or suspect stat such as PP.
 
Speaking of PP why not use PP 5w20
20.gif
 
Originally Posted By: tuckman
Has anybody looked into getting VOA's done on these two oils? Or pressed for more information on these oils from Toyota and Honda?
I bought the Petro Can 0W-20 because I get down to the -50C range at times in the winter. So far PC has the best cold temp stats that I can find available in Canada OTC. (I don't wanna hear "but RL has a PP of -65", they still have near identical MRV #'s for less money)
So until we get some cold start #'s on them they are out of the running for me. It sucks because I paid just over $8/L for the PC stuff and I know the Toyota stuff is cheaper. Some more in depth info would be awesome. Or a list of email addresses of people at Toyota and Honda, so I can help press for more info.


I think Caterham and I will be splitting a case of 12. I'll get a UOA done. I normally use Blackstone - that all right for all of you, or someone else? Wearcheck Canada is just down the street from me in Burlington. What will a VOA show anyway?
 
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I am not sure we can extrapolate the thickness linearly.
It is what is is at the listed specs, but I don't think we can guess accurately beyond that.
 
Originally Posted By: rcy

What will a VOA show anyway?


Just to see what it's got in it (add pack). then put it up against the other 0w-20's that we know. I am thinking of doing one on PC 0W-20 I have.
 
QS Winter oils (5W-20 and 5w30) are only syn blends and aren't particularly light. Their VI's are 161 and 170 respectively.

I've tried to get the CCS and MRV stat's from Toyota (not Honda) as have fellow members, byez and 21Rouge but with no success yet.

There is a VOA of the Honda oil. I believe the Cdn version is the same (on the litre bottle it says imported from the US).
 
Originally Posted By: rcy
Originally Posted By: tuckman
Has anybody looked into getting VOA's done on these two oils? Or pressed for more information on these oils from Toyota and Honda?
I bought the Petro Can 0W-20 because I get down to the -50C range at times in the winter. So far PC has the best cold temp stats that I can find available in Canada OTC. (I don't wanna hear "but RL has a PP of -65", they still have near identical MRV #'s for less money)
So until we get some cold start #'s on them they are out of the running for me. It sucks because I paid just over $8/L for the PC stuff and I know the Toyota stuff is cheaper. Some more in depth info would be awesome. Or a list of email addresses of people at Toyota and Honda, so I can help press for more info.


I think Caterham and I will be splitting a case of 12. I'll get a UOA done. I normally use Blackstone - that all right for all of you, or someone else? Wearcheck Canada is just down the street from me in Burlington. What will a VOA show anyway?


I find our own WearCheck and Toromont to be more reliable than Blackstone. 21Rouge's poor experience in the PC 0w30 VOA comes to mind.
Either way I like to see both 40C and 100C vis spec's to confirm the VI.
 
Originally Posted By: PT1
Speaking of PP why not use PP 5w20
20.gif



PP 0W-20 is of course lighter but with a 40C vis of 42.6 cSt and 175 VI it pales in comparison to Toyota's 39.3 cSt and 214 VI.
 
Originally Posted By: gogozy
Honda does have 2 in house 0w-20, one label synthetic and another one does not specific anything. is Toyota same as Honda that having 2 0w-20 oil?


The situation is the same with Toyota in so much that the US product is labeled synthetic but the Cdn product is not.
But we have it confirmed in writing from Toyota Canada that the Cdn product is indeed synthetic as well.
BTW, it is something of an academic question because ALL 0W-XX are at least GP III syn's.
 
Amsoil's 0W-20 has pour point of -54C (-65F) and viscosity index of 165 and 49.1 cSt @ 40C and 9.0 cSt @ 100C.

Amsoil's 0w30 has pour point of -51C (-60F) and viscosity index of 173 and 56.6 cSt @ 40C and 10.3 cSt @ 100C.

Amsoil's 5w30 has pour point of -50C (-58F) and viscosity index of 170 and 60.7 cSt @ 40C and 10.8 cSt @ 100C.

The Oil Change Interval for Severe Service is for 15,000 miles or one year for the 0W-20 and 5w30, and 17,500 for the 0W-30. That is pretty impressive considering it is for Severe service.

Retail prices are $9 and $10 a quart, less if bought by the gallon or by the case.
 
Those do sound like interesting formulations. To get 40°C vis so low AND have a high VI.....can't just be PPA. But just maybe it's a special PPA and VII blend that gets it there with Group III.

Those numbers should be checked for repeatability, and to see how long they hold up in usage.
 
Wolf's head 5w-20 is not a 10 weight. Anything from 5.6-9.29 cst at 100C is considered a 20 weight.
 
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