Let’s change the “thick vs. thin” up a little: Mercon LV vs ULV!

[PiperOne]

If the three of you don't want to learn anything new, then why do you participate in this discussion?

I simply offered knowledge of some 10L1000 failures due to the wrong viscosity fluid being used.....and this was the warranty denial reason from GM, not the wrong fluid...the wrong viscosity.....causing slow shifts because the TCM is programmed to know at a given temp what the proper spec fluid's viscosity will be and how it should adjust shift timing for it. It was a caution to anyone thinking "thick" would be "better".......a thought I had some belief in when I first started working on these transmissions because the Dex ULV is like water. Spending some time with these transmissions/trucks and seeing some results of "thick" vs proper spec, I learned what could happen, and how these units were programmed to operate and deal with the thin fluid.

But, then I was called an idiot basically and add pack discussions got thrown in and like a lot of threads it just got silly and if you didn't ascribe to the accepted group think or brand fanboy cult you were accused of being ignorant.

I'm out.......it's why after coming back here after a few months to share things I've learned or experienced from a fleet perspective I quit contributing again....each time for a longer period it seems.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

But, then I was called an idiot basically and add pack discussions got thrown in and like a lot of threads it just got silly and if you didn't ascribe to the accepted group think or brand fanboy cult you were accused of being ignorant.

I hold nothing but deep regard for your viewpoints and I've maintained an attitude of respect, refraining from derogatory comments or name-calling towards you or anyone else.

I'm out.......it's why after coming back here after a few months to share things I've learned or experienced from a fleet perspective I quit contributing again....each time for a longer period it seems.

I completely understand your feelings. It can seem disheartening when the aim seems more about seeking validation through widespread agreement and praise, rather than collaboratively learning from each other. For what it's worth, my intentions weren't about gaining popularity. I simply wished to share some insights I've gained from my experiences with different ATFs and conversations with industry professionals. However, it seems that many prefer to stick to their preconceived notions rather than opening themselves up to new knowledge. It's regrettable that many are more inclined to seek reinforcement of their own beliefs.

Ultimately, I wish you the best of luck.

 

[MolaKule]

Deviating from the specified base oil blends may also affect the FM properties. Follow up testing may be required to validate the impact of those changes, if any.

That is especially true in formulating ATFs; now boosting Type F ATF is another matter since little FM modification will occur.

@Rod Knock Even adding esters should require another round of validating the frictional characteristics.

 

[MolaKule]

Who's "we"?

I think the previous question was: How do you know for certain that any of Infinuem's DI add packs are used in HPL's ATFs?

 

[Deleted member 89374]

I think the previous question was: How do you know for certain that any of Infinuem's DI add packs are used in HPL's ATFs?

It's a fact I've directly confirmed from HPL - they utilize only the highest quality components in their lubricant formulations.

That is especially true in formulating ATFs; now boosting Type F ATF is another matter since little FM modification will occur.

@Rod Knock Even adding esters should require another round of validating the frictional characteristics.

My remark regarding the addition of esters was simply intended as a light-hearted jest.

Here:

All you need to do is add certain esters to ATF and you're done.

I'm primarily referring to Lubegard Platinum here. As is well known, it can cause certain complications. A transmission that starts slipping is a transmission on a downward trajectory, and it's only a matter of time before it fails completely. Once the clutches burn out, the transmission is essentially finished.

The role of esters can't be emphasized enough. Not only do they necessitate verification, but they also significantly influence the frictional properties of the ATF.

While I'm not at liberty to delve into particulars, it's important to mention that HPL consciously chooses not to include esters in their ATF. This decision stems from their commitment to preserving the innate frictional characteristics present in the additive package. This strategy greatly contributes to the impressive performance of their ATF.

 

[Brons2]

I'm not sure time reading this was well spent, but whatever. At the end of the day, the concensus seems to be to use the ATF fluid viscosity that is specified for your vehicle, one poster aside.

Was interested about the comment that one user put that they put a single quart of higher viscosity fluid in their 8 qt change. I won't be trying it, but it was interesting. I personally would rather choose a spec fluid that was a LITTLE higher in viscosity (talking 6.1 vs 6.3 here) on a VOA than mix a quart in of something else entirely.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

I'm not sure time reading this was well spent

Kudos to you, as you may have plenty of time available.

At the end of the day, the concensus seems to be to use the ATF fluid viscosity that is specified for your vehicle

Who's consensus.

Let me show you this:

Do you understand?
Tiny hint: what will happen to all those poor transmissions in the list bellow that call for higher viscosity ATFs? Like Dexron III type stuff, SP-III, TES-295, etc.? Will they blow themselves to pieces, or not shift right? Valvoline doesn't seem to think so.

 

[Brons2]

The concensus of BITOG posters who don't have rod knock.

I am using Maxlife MV in my vehicle currently at about a 65/55 mix to OEM licensed fluid, along with some Lubeguard Platinum. Maxlife LV is in range for an LV fluid, as my vehicle specs. Mainly because it's easily accessible at Walmart and priced well. I would have more pause if my vehicle specified a Dex III or similar Mercon V in the low 7s.

I suppose you could have brought up Dex 6 being back-spec'd for Dex 3 applications, but in that case an OEM did the validation, and I haven't driven a GM vehicle since the 80s.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

I am using Maxlife MV in my vehicle currently at about a 65/55 mix to OEM licensed fluid, along with some Lubeguard Platinum.

To me, it's really troubling how the above makes sense... doing.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

The concensus of BITOG posters who don't have rod knock.

I am using Maxlife MV in my vehicle currently at about a 65/55 mix to OEM licensed fluid, along with some Lubeguard Platinum. Maxlife LV is in range for an LV fluid, as my vehicle specs. Mainly because it's easily accessible at Walmart and priced well. I would have more pause if my vehicle specified a Dex III or similar Mercon V in the low 7s.

I suppose you could have brought up Dex 6 being back-spec'd for Dex 3 applications, but in that case an OEM did the validation, and I haven't driven a GM vehicle since the 80s.

Wait, I’m trying to understand this… LMK if this is correct: you’re saying that you think a fluid with a slightly thicker viscosity but the correct additives will cause a problem.

But your point of reference is the OEM fluid, mixed nearly 50/50 with the Jack of all trades fluid, and then topped off with a friction modifier that’s unlicensed by anybody and most certainly results in an overall cocktail fluid that meets none of the OEM’s fluid recommendations?

It also seems like your trans is probably overfilled if you’re running a 65/55 mix

 

[Deleted member 89374]

certainly results in an overall cocktail fluid

This is a bit like making a soup with different ingredients called ATF Soup, but the results can be a bit surprising. It's similar to when some folks on RamForum say that Red Line D6 ATF makes their ZF 8-speed transmission slip. But what they don't tell you is that they mixed it with Lifeguard 8 ATF that's been in their transmission for 50K miles, or maybe even more. They also don't really know how to change the fluid in the ZF 8HP transmission.

Personally, I've never had any problems with my transmissions slipping, no matter what ATF fluid I used. I just didn't like how firm two specific types of ATF, AMSOIL ATL and Red Line D6, made a cheaper and undersized Hyundai transmission shift. But I think that's more about the transmission not being great rather than an issue with the ATF fluid itself.

At the end of the day, it matters if the vehicle owner replaced over 90% of the old ATF with a single brand/type of fluid, rather than if they replaced about 40% of the OEM fluid with the correct viscosity fluid.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

This is a bit like making a soup with different ingredients called ATF Soup, but the results can be a bit surprising. It's similar to when some folks on RamForum say that Red Line D6 ATF makes their ZF 8-speed transmission slip. But what they don't tell you is that they mixed it with Lifeguard 8 ATF that's been in their transmission for 50K miles, or maybe even more. They also don't really know how to change the fluid in the ZF 8HP transmission.

Personally, I've never had any problems with my transmissions slipping, no matter what ATF fluid I used. I just didn't like how firm two specific types of ATF, AMSOIL ATL and Red Line D6, made a cheaper and undersized Hyundai transmission shift. But I think that's more about the transmission not being great rather than an issue with the ATF fluid itself.

At the end of the day, it matters if the vehicle owner replaced over 90% of the old ATF with a single brand/type of fluid, rather than if they replaced about 40% of the OEM fluid with the correct viscosity fluid.

Would this make the stuff that goes into a ZF trans be named “Zoup”?

 

[Brons2]

Wait, I’m trying to understand this… LMK if this is correct: you’re saying that you think a fluid with a slightly thicker viscosity but the correct additives will cause a problem.

But your point of reference is the OEM fluid, mixed nearly 50/50 with the Jack of all trades fluid, and then topped off with a friction modifier that’s unlicensed by anybody and most certainly results in an overall cocktail fluid that meets none of the OEM’s fluid recommendations?

It also seems like your trans is probably overfilled if you’re running a 65/55 mix

I never said that. I said I would not be comfortable running something 1cst or more thicker or thinner in a transmission. Something in the 5.7-6.3ish range, for me it's fine so long as it is "recommended" for Mercon LV application, or whatever LV fluid my vehicle happened to take. If you or others want to use LV fluid in your ULV transmission, knock yourself out.

If I had a 10R80, I'd run the ULV fluid, or equivalent like the HPL Teal or whatever fluid in the 4.x range that is out there. I haven't really looked as I don't own or service a trasmission that takes one of these fluids, but nothing popped out at me as being "ULV" when browsing the transmission fluid offerings at wally world.

Yes, you're correct, it's 55/45. 7.5 of 13.5 quarts, is Maxlife MV (5.9 CST)

To me, it's really troubling how the above makes sense... doing.

It's just the result of doing 1 drain and fill rather than 2 or 3 drain and fills. You're dropping out 7.5 of 13.5 quarts on a 2009-2010 6R80 every time you do one, the 2011+ is slightly revised, but maybe the same. Maybe BITOG would be happier if I had done 2 or 3 drain and fills so that it would be "mostly Maxlife MV" plus Lubeguard Platinum.

When I do another drain and fill in 10-15K, assuming I use Maxlife MV, I will drain out 7.5 quarts. Of the 6 quarts left in the transmission, 55%, or 3.3 quarts, will be Maxlife MV. If I add 7.5 quarts of fresh MV, then I will have 10.8 out of 13.5 quarts MV, or 80%.

If anyone from BITOG wants to Paypal or Venmo me whateve exhoribant cost is involved with going to a Valvoline Quick change for a full transmission flush with Maxlife MV, I'll be glad to find time to do it. But I really don't think it's necessary.

If I asked Valvoline customer service "Is there any risk on doing a drain and fill and mixing Maxilife MV with OEM fluid" I'd bet money they'd say no.

If I asked Lubeguard customer service if adding Platinum to a drain and fill that was only 55% full synthetic rather than 100% as per their charts, I doubt they'd have an issue with it, although in this case I'm not sure I'd bet money on it.

Overall, I'm not sure how this thread became about me. I'm using LV fluid in an LV application.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Dunning Kruger and Cognitive Dissonance shacked up, got married, and made a home for themselves right here, on BITOG...

 

[Brons2]

Dunning Kruger and Cognitive Dissonance shacked up, got married, and made a home for themselves right here, on BITOG...

Which particular topic are you speaking of?

What would you have done differently? A full flush if you were changing fluid brands? No Lubeguard, or a different Lubeguard (Red)?

What actions do you recommend taking to remedy the current situation? Not that any will be taken, but just curious.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Not that any will be taken, but just curious.

See post #91.

 

[4329]

Would it be possible for someone to explain how a multivehicle atf can satisfy the requirements of the nine specifications of atf called up by Hyundai. Example: is Dexron SP-II the same as SP-IV-RR.

Perhaps all the specifications are backward compatible and if that is the case why does Hyundai state in their service bulletin that SP-IV-RR is not compatible with other atf specifications, refer to SB 20-AT-010H.

Either Hyundai is incorrect or the aftermarket atf manufactures are incorrect, which is it.

Is it possible that the rip off oem atf has less fairy dust sprinkled in it than the aftermarket atf and the aftermarket atf has more fairy dust thus giving it magical powers to be deemed suitable to satisfy all atf specifications.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Would it be possible for someone to explain how a multivehicle atf can satisfy the requirements of the nine specifications of atf called up by Hyundai. Example: is Dexron SP-II the same as SP-IV-RR.

Perhaps all the specifications are backward compatible and if that is the case why does Hyundai state in their service bulletin that SP-IV-RR is not compatible with other atf specifications, refer to SB 20-AT-010H.

Either Hyundai is incorrect or the aftermarket atf manufactures are incorrect, which is it.

Is it possible that the rip off oem atf has less fairy dust sprinkled in it than the aftermarket atf and the aftermarket atf has more fairy dust thus giving it magical powers to be deemed suitable to satisfy all atf specifications.

Think of SP-IV as low-budget Dexron VI, and SP-IV RR as Dexron HP. The SP-IV fluid is garbage, it breaks down to black goo under continuous heat and stress. SP IV-RR renedies that. So, you can run SP-IV RR in a transmission that calls for SP-IV, but not the other way around.

It's late now and I got a long day of work tomorrow ahead of me. We'll pick this up sometime tomorrow.

There is big money in lubricants. The more ATF "specifictions" there are, the more money everyone who has a hand in their manufacuring and sale makes.

 

[Brons2]

See post #91.

The bit about having over 90% of one type of fluid, you mean?

 

[Deleted member 89374]

The bit about having over 90% of one type of fluid, you mean?

Yes, it's a good idea to change the fluid entirely. The most I was ever able to change doing 3 drains and fills was 98%. If you go beyond that, you will probably need to do another 3 drains and fills to get up to 100%, which is simply wasteful.

Check this out: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/castrol-transynd-668-voa.369720/#post-6514729

Probably, @The Critic needs to see this as well. He is an unbeliever and mistakenly thinks that I have something against him or I don't know my ATFs. I don't have anything against him, and I do know my ATFs.