Koni Sport (Yellow) shocks proper settings

[inquirer]

I have installed Koni Yellow shocks on my 1.5L Lancer, with the OE springs and I'm wondering what would the "ideal" settings be.

Unfortunately, the rears are not adjustable on the vehicle. They are set to 1/2 a turn (180°) from soft out of 2 turns max.

I have currently set the fronts to 1 turn (360°) from soft out of the 2 turns.

What I have noticed is that increasing the stiffness of the rebound of the front shocks (from 0° to 180° to 360°) understeering decreased. I thought that it would be the opposite way, that stiffening the fronts would make understeering worse.

Meanwhile, is their a point to adjust the rears at more degrees than the fronts? I have read many people using more degrees in the rears in the different forums. On the contrary the Koni shop from which I bought the shocks advised me to use 0° to 90° for the rears and 180° to 270° for the fronts if I push the car, otherwise for normal driving they suggested leaving all of them to full soft as they come from the factory.

What would be the best settings for the shocks in order to achieve maximum Gs when turning and at the same time keep a neutral balance between understeering and oversteering?

 

[MrHorspwer]

There isn't a shock absorber on Earth that will change the foundational handling characteristics of a vehicle. Treating an adjustable shock like an understeer/oversteer dial isn't how it works.

As far as handling characteristics go, shock tuning primarily comes into play during transitional elements, when weight is shifting left to right. That would be like during initial turn in, when the vehicle is transitioning, before the suspension has taken is set. Stiffening the rebound would slow the weight transfer from side-to-side by slowing the velocity of the side being unloaded. Once the suspension has taken a set in the turn, the shocks are no longer in play. We're not talking radical changes here either. Koni yellows have a pretty good range from full-soft to full-stiff, but there's a practical limit.

Adjusting the rebound is a tuning aid, but it still has to function within the foundational characteristics of the suspension, which is a much larger system. If the vehicle roll center and roll stiffness is such that the vehicle naturally understeers (as most do), a rebound adjustment may slightly change that tendency at initial turn-in or in transitions. It will not change the overall behavior of the car. If the suspension system is designed to understeer, a rebound tweak won't change that. It may be a bit sharper at turn-in, but once the vehicle takes a set, it'll still push. Spring rate, sway bar, and geometry changes are needed to affect that.

Also and frankly, the street is the absolute worst place to test suspension handling changes. Bumps and loose surfaces will affect handling behavior far more than shock adjustments. To accurately judge what a suspension is doing, you need consistency in testing. A road is anything but consistent.

I've used Koni yellows on three vehicles: A Corvette, a Camaro, and a Miata. The Corvette had a larger front sway bar and I would auto-x at 25% stiff front (4 of 16 sweeps) and 12.5% stiff rear (2/16). I'd turn them all back to full soft if I were driving for any time on the street, as my auto-x settings caused the car to pogo (over-dampened) more than I'd like. The Camaro was 50% stiff front (8/16) and full-soft rear. I left it like this all the time, auto-x and street. The car was totally comfortable on the street with these settings. The Camaro had significant suspension changes (springs, sway bars, rear suspension geometry tweaks). I honestly forget where I ended on the Miata, as that was nearly 20 years ago, but it had coilovers and sway bars. I guess the moral is, across three cars with various levels of modification, there is no "best setting" that can be recommended.

Some reading:

How shocks work–and how to make them work for you

A quick explanation of what a shock absorber is, and how it impacts the performance of a car.

grassrootsmotorsports.com

 

[zeky]

I found non adjustable Bilstein shocks worked better than anything. Different car.

 

[kr_bitog]

I have installed Koni Yellow shocks on my 1.5L Lancer, with the OE springs and I'm wondering what would the "ideal" settings be.

Unfortunately, the rears are not adjustable on the vehicle. They are set to 1/2 a turn (180°) from soft out of 2 turns max.

I have currently set the fronts to 1 turn (360°) from soft out of the 2 turns.

What I have noticed is that increasing the stiffness of the rebound of the front shocks (from 0° to 180° to 360°) understeering decreased. I thought that it would be the opposite way, that stiffening the fronts would make understeering worse.

Meanwhile, is their a point to adjust the rears at more degrees than the fronts? I have read many people using more degrees in the rears in the different forums. On the contrary the Koni shop from which I bought the shocks advised me to use 0° to 90° for the rears and 180° to 270° for the fronts if I push the car, otherwise for normal driving they suggested leaving all of them to full soft as they come from the factory.

What would be the best settings for the shocks in order to achieve maximum Gs when turning and at the same time keep a neutral balance between understeering and oversteering?

If you use OE spring, the Koni yellow typically works best on full soft because that what they are designed to. The moment you make it stiffer, most likely it will overdampen and you loose suspension travel, that may not only make it uncomfortable but may also reduce overall handling performance due to the outside wheel has less traction.

 

[inquirer]

I found non adjustable Bilstein shocks worked better than anything. Different car.

Only Bilstein B4 is available for the 1.5L Lancer, so there are no good options by Bilstein for Lancer.

If you use OE spring, the Koni yellow typically works best on full soft because that what they are designed to. The moment you make it stiffer, most likely it will overdampen and you loose suspension travel, that may not only make it uncomfortable but may also reduce overall handling performance due to the outside wheel has less traction.

Even at 1 full turn front, half turn rear they are not uncomfortable at all. Actually, they are way more comfortable than the KYB Excel-Gs I had replaced, which had failed after just 30.000 miles.

As for the performance, understeering is way less at 360° front than 180° and definitely the car turns noticeably faster with the stiffer setup.

 

[kr_bitog]

Only Bilstein B4 is available for the 1.5L Lancer, so there are no good options by Bilstein for Lancer.



Even at 1 full turn front, half turn rear they are not uncomfortable at all. Actually, they are way more comfortable than the KYB Excel-Gs I had replaced, which had failed after just 30.000 miles.

As for the performance, understeering is way less at 360° front than 180° and definitely the car turns noticeably faster with the stiffer setup.

Well, if the damper is not originally designed for the car model, then it will throw a lot of variables, so it may need to do many trials. Because different car may have different distribution weight, suspension angle, spring rate, etc.

 

[inquirer]

Well, if the damper is not originally designed for the car model, then it will throw a lot of variables, so it may need to do many trials. Because different car may have different distribution weight, suspension angle, spring rate, etc.

What do you mean "if they are not designed for the car"? The Koni offers the part codes I bought for the Lancer.

 

[kr_bitog]

What do you mean "if they are not designed for the car"? The Koni offers the part codes I bought for the Lancer.

Ok, if the part codes is for Lancer then it should be more or less the default setting is ok. To adjust understeer/oversteer it should not start with damping, but you should start with camber and toe. You may want to add negative camber and toe out to make the car more agile on turning.

 

[inquirer]

Ok, if the part codes is for Lancer then it should be more or less the default setting is ok. To adjust understeer/oversteer it should not start with damping, but you should start with camber and toe. You may want to add negative camber and toe out to make the car more agile on turning.

Definitely, all these things like alignment and other parts of the suspension affect how the car turns, but I'm asking about the shock absorbers specifically, because they also have their part in the car's behavior.

 

[kr_bitog]

Definitely, all these things like alignment and other parts of the suspension affect how the car turns, but I'm asking about the shock absorbers specifically, because they also have their part in the car's behavior.

there is no ideal setting for suspension because it depends on how hard you drive and what kind of road you are driving on. I find default in general full soft is best for OE spring or slightly stiffer works well with Koni yellow, but otherwise when there are many undulation on the road, the suspension may not cope well and handling performance suffered. The easiest to check if it is over-dampened is by lifting your car and see how fast the tire drop down to hanging position. Typically Koni yellow is best matched with harder spring, and Koni street match with OE spring, even though Koni yellow on full soft default also works great with OE spring. The rear non adjustable on your car make the front adjustment use is limited, except you change the spring or play with wheel alignment.

 

[inquirer]

there is no ideal setting for suspension because it depends on how hard you drive and what kind of road you are driving on. I find default in general full soft is best for OE spring or slightly stiffer works well with Koni yellow, but otherwise when there are many undulation on the road, the suspension may not cope well and handling performance suffered. The easiest to check if it is over-dampened is by lifting your car and see how fast the tire drop down to hanging position. Typically Koni yellow is best matched with harder spring, and Koni street match with OE spring, even though Koni yellow on full soft default also works great with OE spring. The rear non adjustable on your car make the front adjustment use is limited, except you change the spring or play with wheel alignment.

I didn't want to buy lowering springs, because I now and then drive the car on dirt roads, so I need the extra height...

Definitely stiffening the rebound makes the car able to turn faster, so personally I don't think full soft is the best setting for someone who wants to maximize the cornering speed. You are right though, driving fast on long turns with bumpy surface unsettles the car a little bit, so maybe I will back off the fronts 1/4 of a turn in order to see how handling improves.

Of course you are again right, there is no setup that is ideal for every road and depending on the journey a different setup would perform better, but I seriously doubt that there are many people who constantly adjust their shock absorbers. I guess most people would compromise for a setup that makes them generally happy.

 

[Surestick]

As others have said, there's no perfect setting for everything.
Your best bet is to set out a course in an empty parking lot or something and test to find what works best. Otherwise look on vehicle-specific forums and see what others have settled on.

 

[930.engineering]

I almost fully agree with MrHorspwer, not so much with the rest of the crowd. Hard to refer
to every single point. Short:
If you want less understeer increase front camber. If you want to decrease roll fit stiffer ARBs.
Where I differ: You could tune your dampers on public roads. Chose empty and bumpy roads.
No fast corners required at all. Set your dampers in smaller steps so that the suspension feels
balanced and both axles feel similar. If you try to fight against you cars natural and camber-set
caused understeer by 'adjusting' your damper you'll inevitably make your suspension worse.
So it's basically fairly simple, don't let half-whisdom forum people mislead you. Take your time -
some hours at least, probably some days ideally. The hardest part is perhaps to decide to whom
you should listen. Better spend your time in the car. I'm a suspension development engineer for
more than 25 years if that underlines what I said.

 

[inquirer]

As others have said, there's no perfect setting for everything.
Your best bet is to set out a course in an empty parking lot or something and test to find what works best. Otherwise look on vehicle-specific forums and see what others have settled on.

Obviously there isn't a perfect setup that would fit every journey. I am looking for more general tips.

For example on a BMW forum I have seen many people (not everyone though) running their rear Konis stiffer than the fronts. I have a different experience. With the rear set at 180°, by stiffening the fronts from 180° to 360° I definitely can carry more speed in tight corners.

So I would like to read some general guidelines at least , not a specific setup.

I almost fully agree with MrHorspwer, not so much with the rest of the crowd. Hard to refer
to every single point. Short:
If you want less understeer increase front camber. If you want to decrease roll fit stiffer ARBs.
Where I differ: You could tune your dampers on public roads. Chose empty and bumpy roads.
No fast corners required at all. Set your dampers in smaller steps so that the suspension feels
balanced and both axles feel similar. If you try to fight against you cars natural and camber-set
caused understeer by 'adjusting' your damper you'll inevitably make your suspension worse.
So it's basically fairly simple, don't let half-whisdom forum people mislead you. Take your time -
some hours at least, probably some days ideally. The hardest part is perhaps to decide to whom
you should listen. Better spend your time in the car. I'm a suspension development engineer for
more than 25 years if that underlines what I said.

So far by testing I have reached to these conclusions:

1. As I said in my answer above with the rear set at 180°, by stiffening the fronts from 180° to 360° I definitely can carry more speed in tight corners before the car starts to understeer.
2. With the aforementioned setup the car feels just a little bit unsettled when driving on fast bumpy curves. I have to figure out which part of the car is the cause.

That said of course anti-roll bars play a major role in controlling a car's roll, but also shock absorbers have their own part regarding roll behavior, so they should also get properly adjusted.

 

[edyvw]

I found non adjustable Bilstein shocks worked better than anything. Different car.

Obviously there isn't a perfect setup that would fit every journey. I am looking for more general tips.

For example on a BMW forum I have seen many people (not everyone though) running their rear Konis stiffer than the fronts. I have a different experience. With the rear set at 180°, by stiffening the fronts from 180° to 360° I definitely can carry more speed in tight corners.

So I would like to read some general guidelines at least , not a specific setup.



So far by testing I have reached to these conclusions:

1. As I said in my answer above with the rear set at 180°, by stiffening the fronts from 180° to 360° I definitely can carry more speed in tight corners before the car starts to understeer.
2. With the aforementioned setup the car feels just a little bit unsettled when driving on fast bumpy curves. I have to figure out which part of the car is the cause.

That said of course anti-roll bars play a major role in controlling a car's roll, but also shock absorbers have their own part regarding roll behavior, so they should also get properly adjusted.

Don’t compare set up on BMW with your Lancer. You are talking RWD vehicle with perfect weight distribution or near perfect weigh distribution in AWD models.
Also, shocks alone are important, but not as important as other parts in decreasing understeer. I changed on my BMW complete front and rear suspension and installed Bilstein B6 dampers.
On the rear I actually upgraded suspension. New polyurethane subframe bushings, M3 lower and upper wishbones, stiffer shock mounts, and new control arms. Front bcs. it is AWD i could not use M3 parts. It dramatically decreased understeer that is consequence of AWD bcs. rear is much tighter. But, we are talking RWD platform and bias vehicle.
You should go polyurethane bushings in front, stiffer mounts, etc. in addition to struts.

 

[930.engineering]

Obviously there isn't a perfect setup that would fit every journey. I am looking for more general tips.

For example on a BMW forum I have seen many people (not everyone though) running their rear Konis stiffer than the fronts. I have a different experience. With the rear set at 180°, by stiffening the fronts from 180° to 360° I definitely can carry more speed in tight corners.

So I would like to read some general guidelines at least , not a specific setup.



So far by testing I have reached to these conclusions:

1. As I said in my answer above with the rear set at 180°, by stiffening the fronts from 180° to 360° I definitely can carry more speed in tight corners before the car starts to understeer.
2. With the aforementioned setup the car feels just a little bit unsettled when driving on fast bumpy curves. I have to figure out which part of the car is the cause.

That said of course anti-roll bars play a major role in controlling a car's roll, but also shock absorbers have their own part regarding roll behavior, so they should also get properly adjusted.

I feel very much you already have your opinion, so there's not much point to debate.

 

[inquirer]

I feel very much you already have your opinion, so there's not much point to debate.

I don't disagree. The suspension is a very complicated system and the shock absorbers are just one component out of many. An upgrade of the shock absorbers obviously can't substitute the upgrade of other parts of the suspension. That's crystal clear. Although going from the KYB Excel-Gs which are just OE replacement shocks to Koni Sports the difference the later make is very noticeable without changing any other parts of the suspension.

As I said I don't disagree, but I just upgraded the shock absorbers and I just try to tune them right.

 

[inquirer]

Don’t compare set up on BMW with your Lancer. You are talking RWD vehicle with perfect weight distribution or near perfect weigh distribution in AWD models.
Also, shocks alone are important, but not as important as other parts in decreasing understeer. I changed on my BMW complete front and rear suspension and installed Bilstein B6 dampers.
On the rear I actually upgraded suspension. New polyurethane subframe bushings, M3 lower and upper wishbones, stiffer shock mounts, and new control arms. Front bcs. it is AWD i could not use M3 parts. It dramatically decreased understeer that is consequence of AWD bcs. rear is much tighter. But, we are talking RWD platform and bias vehicle.
You should go polyurethane bushings in front, stiffer mounts, etc. in addition to struts.

I can assure you that going from the KYB Excel-Gs to the Koni Sports the vehicle can carry noticeable more speed in corners before it starts to understeer. Before upgrading the shocks I was struggling to keep the vehicle on the desired line, now it takes some effort to make it deviate from its course.
I don't disagree that all these parts you mention play a major role in the car's handling, but for now I just upgraded the shock absorbers and I try to make the most out of them by tuning them in the best way I can.

 

[edyvw]

I can assure you that going from the KYB Excel-Gs to the Koni Sports the vehicle can carry noticeable more speed in corners before it starts to understeer. Before upgrading the shocks I was struggling to keep the vehicle on the desired line, now it takes some effort to make it deviate from its course.
I don't disagree that all these parts you mention play a major role in the car's handling, but for now I just upgraded the shock absorbers and I try to make the most out of them by tuning them in the best way I can.

I have no doubt.
However, you went to some of the best shocks (IMO Bilstein is a bit better and more stout) without investing in the rest of the vehicle. You are actually never going to use the full potential of those shocks bcs. other parts cannot deliver on par performance. Also, bcs. now you have such shocks, other parts will wear out faster. You are carrying more speed, you are now putting more strain on parts that cannot support that. Shocks alone are never the solution. They will deliver a bit better performance, but that is it. Then few months later you will ask yourself why your mounts are gone, some other suspension part.
Is it going to be better than KYB? Absolutely, but you might be chasing desirable performance forever adjusting shocks when the culprit is in other suspension parts.

 

[inquirer]

I have no doubt.
However, you went to some of the best shocks (IMO Bilstein is a bit better and more stout) without investing in the rest of the vehicle. You are actually never going to use the full potential of those shocks bcs. other parts cannot deliver on par performance. Also, bcs. now you have such shocks, other parts will wear out faster. You are carrying more speed, you are now putting more strain on parts that cannot support that. Shocks alone are never the solution. They will deliver a bit better performance, but that is it. Then few months later you will ask yourself why your mounts are gone, some other suspension part.
Is it going to be better than KYB? Absolutely, but you might be chasing desirable performance forever adjusting shocks when the culprit is in other suspension parts.

The problem is that the range of aftermarket parts is limited for the 1.5L and 1.8L Lancers that are available in Europe. For example Bilstein offers only B4s for the car which are just OE replacement shock absorbers. The same goes for Monroe and KYB. They also only offer OE replacement shocks for the Lancer. The only logical option for an upgrade are the Konis and then a much more expensive option is the coilover KW Variant 2 shock absorbers, but they come at the triple price in comparison with Koni Sports.

Another upgrade I could make was a set of lowering springs, but as I occasionally drive my car on dirt roads I decided to maintain the original height and clearance.

I also don't think you can find polyurethane bushings for the EU versions of the Lancer, as for aftermarket anti-roll bars I'm not sure...