Just a Rant on Drum Brakes

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Rear drum brakes on my mopars self adjust when you backup. Braking in reverse causes the mechanism to rotate a tiny amount. This causes the little cable to pull on the lever, the lever engages the star wheel, If there is enough clearance the star wheel will rotate one click. The whole mechanism is dirt simple. If your adjusters are correctly installed, then for some reason the adjusters are not working. The problem seems somehow to be related to the oversize tires, but I don't understand how. With all new parts, it should be fairly easy to figure out why.

Hope that helps some.

Wayne
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
I hate to ask but did you possibly get the adjusters mixed up left on right. They are different, that may would explain it.
I am afraid but your symptoms of brake backing off are classic case of the above. If I were you, I would swap the adjusters from left to right and then stop updating this topic and let it die natural death rather than digging your own grave any further. It is also possible that the adjusters were stamped incorrectly and thus it might not be your fault.

It does pain me because I am the one who does agree with your rant. When you add all the zillion parts needed to manufacture a drum brake, disc brakes have to be cheaper!
 
The adjusters are installed right. Appears to be a defective rocker arm that is allowing the adjuster arm to completely miss the star wheel.

Adjusters are installed correct front-to-back and on the correct side.
 
Unless there is a way to get the rocker arm (NOT adjuster arm) to stay securely in the show, I see no other way.

It makes sense, though. I helped replace a wheel cylinder and had to take the whole thing apart on another Jeep. The rocker was rusted to the shoe and it didn't have any problems.
 
You really need to show us some pictures of what you're seeing as a defective rocker arm so we can better help.

I third the suggestion of setting the adjusters by doing a few hard stops in reverse in an empty parking lot. That is how the whole system is self adjusted. The faster you can get going and the harder you stop the more it will adjust. Maybe this is just something you'll need to periodically do to keep them adjusted correctly.

And a HUGE +1 to not welding anything in the braking system! That's just too dangerous.

Found this DIY write up that appears to be the passenger side rear brake.

http://www.cherokeeforum.com/f51/how-change-drum-brakes-d35-45100/

Probably a good idea to double check the placement of the primary and secondary shoes and springs.
 
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I am not sure if that is the guide or not - but whatever guide I used from that site back in October has the shoes backwards.

The piece circled in black is the one that keeps rotating around.

3t9O8w4.jpg
 
Drums are a little heavy. Not an issue on some vehicles ... a ½ ton truck wheel alone can weigh 50 lbs. The brake pressure they can ultimately apply to the wheel is less, but they are smoother in application of pressure.

Disks, on the other hand, are grabby. That can be OK if low unsprung weight is designed into the vehicle.

Drums work better than disks at *slowing* a vehicle, disks work better at *stopping* a vehicle. If you are towing or hauling a lot of weight, drums make sense.

Rear drums on heavier vehicles or those with live axles are often the better solution. On light vehicles, or those with IRS, disks typically work best.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88

I am not sure if that is the guide or not - but whatever guide I used from that site back in October has the shoes backwards.

The piece circled in black is the one that keeps rotating around.

3t9O8w4.jpg



Is that from your vehicle, or someone else?

Been decades since I touched a drum (and I had no clue) but the wear on those shoes seems off, thin at top, thick at bottom.

*

I have no love for drums, the rear disc on my Jetta were easy to service. I have yet to pull the rear disc on my yodas but I expect those to be worse, as they have mini drums (which do not work very well as parking brakes, so I suspect it is time to pull and inspect).

I missed the start of your rant, but I feel your pain. I can pull the pads on my vehicles, apply brake grease, drive six months, and the pads are stuck in place, or nearly so. So much for low maintance. Have to redo the brakes twice a year. I guess that ia life though, miht as well gripe about having to change oil.
 
Found some things that apply to Jeep rear drum brakes.

"The adjuster needs to be installed with the end of the spring out, and the plate flush against the outside of the adjuster like this"

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/tj-rea...165/index3.html


Another thread advises rotate the adjuster cable guide in the direction to make the adjuster cable shorter to allow the adjuster lever to contact the star wheel. The adjuster guide is not a circle so it does make a difference how you position it. Spring friction on the adjuster cable guide should keep it in position.

If you do not position the adjuster cable guide correctly, the adjuster cable will appear to be too long and the adjuster lever will not contact the star wheel and will not allow drum brake to adjust.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/rear-drum-brake-adjuster-lever-help-1068910/index3.html
 
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It's sort of nice having drum brakes on both our cars. It takes 5 minutes a side to adjust when rotating tires. And they still have a lot of shoe left on both cars after a lot of driving.

Agreed that drum brakes work well when they're adjusted correctly, and poorly when they aren't.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: Miller88

I am not sure if that is the guide or not - but whatever guide I used from that site back in October has the shoes backwards.

The piece circled in black is the one that keeps rotating around.

3t9O8w4.jpg



Is that from your vehicle, or someone else?

Been decades since I touched a drum (and I had no clue) but the wear on those shoes seems off, thin at top, thick at bottom.

*

I have no love for drums, the rear disc on my Jetta were easy to service. I have yet to pull the rear disc on my yodas but I expect those to be worse, as they have mini drums (which do not work very well as parking brakes, so I suspect it is time to pull and inspect).

I missed the start of your rant, but I feel your pain. I can pull the pads on my vehicles, apply brake grease, drive six months, and the pads are stuck in place, or nearly so. So much for low maintance. Have to redo the brakes twice a year. I guess that ia life though, miht as well gripe about having to change oil.


That picture was pulled from a link that was posted above. However, most Jeep of the XJ/YJ/TJ/ZJ era had the same rear brakes - I have the same rear brakes as the wrangler in the picture


Originally Posted By: thrace
Found some things that apply to Jeep rear drum brakes.

"The adjuster needs to be installed with the end of the spring out, and the plate flush against the outside of the adjuster like this"

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/tj-rea...165/index3.html


Another thread advises rotate the adjuster cable guide in the direction to make the adjuster cable shorter to allow the adjuster lever to contact the star wheel. The adjuster guide is not a circle so it does make a difference how you position it. Spring friction on the adjuster cable guide should keep it in position.

If you do not position the adjuster cable guide correctly, the adjuster cable will appear to be too long and the adjuster lever will not contact the star wheel and will not allow drum brake to adjust.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/rear-drum-brake-adjuster-lever-help-1068910/index3.html


I'll have to read through them. I looked at the springs on another Jeep. It had a different spring setup.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
It's sort of nice having drum brakes on both our cars. It takes 5 minutes a side to adjust when rotating tires. And they still have a lot of shoe left on both cars after a lot of driving.

Agreed that drum brakes work well when they're adjusted correctly, and poorly when they aren't.


It's a mixed blessing of sorts. Up here in the rust belt, rear discs (especially on cars that aren't used hard) will rust up.The original drum setup is on my car at 53000 miles - would not be the case with discs.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: sciphi
It's sort of nice having drum brakes on both our cars. It takes 5 minutes a side to adjust when rotating tires. And they still have a lot of shoe left on both cars after a lot of driving.

Agreed that drum brakes work well when they're adjusted correctly, and poorly when they aren't.


It's a mixed blessing of sorts. Up here in the rust belt, rear discs (especially on cars that aren't used hard) will rust up.The original drum setup is on my car at 53000 miles - would not be the case with discs.


Man, I just don't know how I'd learn to put up with those salted roads. We have 10 year old trucks without a speck of rust anywhere.

It's been fun to listen to the tales of woe about drum brakes. They are a great design that is super easy to service and lasts a long time in most applications. My 05 Silverado recently sold had only had the rear linings replaced one time in its entire life here...
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
All three of my Fords have rear drum brakes. I can easily lock up the rear tires (until the ABS kicks in), they last a really long time, and the parking brake works WAAYY better than any rear disc setup I've ever used. Drums on the rear are just fine in my book.
21.gif



I would prefer disc on the rear, but the drum brakes on the rear of the Focus were just replaced 2 months ago for the first time. The OPs problem is with the Jeep, not drum brakes as a whole.
 
Never touched the drum brakes on any of my cars. My '93 Mazda went 345k miles, Civic is at 181k and Vue 132k currently. Never touched them. Done pads and rotors up front and will likely never need to touch those again either.

Happy drum brake user.

Now if I had to replace them, I'd rather have discs to work on. But hasn't been the case so far.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Other than lower cost, drum brake has no advantage in any category(performance, easy to check/replace ...) over disc brake.


Mercedes uses them inside the rear rotor hat for the parking brake, they seem to work OK in that application.
 
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