Japanese vs American cars

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: DrRoughneck
Let's be honest for a second and look at the problem:

The main difference is:

- When a US car company turns a profit, stockholders are happy and the board votes to pay out multi-million bonuses to top management. It doesn't matter if the cars are produced offshore or not as long as management gets its million dollar bonus. These millions could be used to engineer better car but they end up paid out to top managers instead. They often skimp on parts and use cheaper foreign parts to maximize profits.

- By contrast Japanese executives do not receive nearly as big of bonuses. Instead Japanese car companies re-invest profits in engineering and testing. They end up with safer, better cars that cost about the same price as US cars but last longer and use better (American-made) parts.


US car companies could make cars of equal quality to Japanese companies if they adopted the same priorities. However their current priorities, to mazimize management bonuses, goes against that objective.


Well said. There are times where there is skill to harness, which deserves a fat profit; then there's treacherous moves pulling the rug out from others.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: DrRoughneck
Let's be honest for a second and look at the problem:

The main difference is:

- When a US car company turns a profit, stockholders are happy and the board votes to pay out multi-million bonuses to top management. It doesn't matter if the cars are produced offshore or not as long as management gets its million dollar bonus. These millions could be used to engineer better car but they end up paid out to top managers instead. They often skimp on parts and use cheaper foreign parts to maximize profits.

- By contrast Japanese executives do not receive nearly as big of bonuses. Instead Japanese car companies re-invest profits in engineering and testing. They end up with safer, better cars that cost about the same price as US cars but last longer and use better (American-made) parts.


US car companies could make cars of equal quality to Japanese companies if they adopted the same priorities. However their current priorities, to mazimize management bonuses, goes against that objective.



Bingo. It's the American way and happens with pretty much every corporation.

 

[maintenanceMan]

I think the quality differences are cultural in nature, having to do with the particular set of occurences in Japan. The quality differences go a long way back also. If you look way back to the first ford transmissions produced in Japan for Ford, they were found to last much much longer than american parts. When they were pulled apart it was found that the parts within it were more accurately produced. So CEO pay has nothing to do the inherent tendency of the japanese to make superior items.

 

[KitaCam]

Comparing "identical" models made in US and Japan is worth considering. Many claim that Japan-built Camrys are "tighter" (fit and finish) than their US-made counterparts....I can say that at 145k miles, my 13-year old Camry still feels tight. The clutch had been replaced @ 100k and I can only hope that US repair will last.

My Toyo tech commented once that every Japan i4 engine he's heard sounded different from the US engine. Don't know the significance of that but he did notice that.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: KitaCam
Comparing "identical" models made in US and Japan is worth considering. Many claim that Japan-built Camrys are "tighter" (fit and finish) than their US-made counterparts....I can say that at 145k miles, my 13-year old Camry still feels tight. The clutch had been replaced @ 100k and I can only hope that US repair will last.

My Toyo tech commented once that every Japan i4 engine he's heard sounded different from the US engine. Don't know the significance of that but he did notice that.



I will kinda second this. The final fit and finish maybe.

Don't know about the engines... that seems odd and I would doubt certainty. Engines are shifted and shipped around a lot so always knowing where the engine happens to be produced might be a challenge... you could have several potential locations supplying engines to several assembly plants. I guess you could have compared the 1ZZ-FE (global/US) engine vs the 1ZZ-FED (Japanese). However the problem with that is a lot of the Japanese-source engines would default to be California emissions compliant compared to a non-California Car. This tripped up the 1ZZ-FED with pre-cat longevity in 1ZZ-FED engines vs 1ZZ-FE engines.


In my narrow experience, J-Vins = Japanese made in Japan compared to 4-Vins = US made Japanese cars do differ

My J-Vins Japanese cars seem to be slightly (and mean slightly) "tighter" on the fit-and-finish and 4-vin models. My MR2's trim has held up better than the similar-era Kentucky Solara that a family member owns. Not to say there is all that much difference but, some. On the inverse, I find that US made Japanese models the trim holds up a bit longer, especially if glued. Don't know why or if the American-factories used better or more glue but the downside to the J-Vins.


I still like a family member who supports GM and liked to brag about the fit and finish of their "K" vin number Buick. I just say "yeah", and walk away.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: leemajors
Originally Posted By: maintenanceMan
I still think many certain items made in Japan have the highest tolerances and build quality. Their engineering isn't always as insightful or creative as other brands but they do a good job of
manufacturing. I've seen this in lots of products, from cars to razor blades(feather is best in the world). To help you compare apples to apples, it might be more insightful to only include items from the actual country of origin. For example, many Japanese name branded vehicles are currently produced in the US. Also, try to compare items in similar price brackets. It should also be mentioned that there is of course lots of variation between different companies, makes, models etc.. so any generalization is just that, a generalization.


I've owned many Toyotas (85 MR2--97 Camry--08 Tacoma--11 Tacoma--07 Prius--00 4Runner). My wife drives an 07 4Runner.

All of these cars have been dead reliable. The MR2 and Camry I drove until their unfortunate neglected deaths.

I will say the build quality of the Japanese manufactured vehicles was definitely superior to the US models.

My 00 4Runner has less interior rattles at 195k than the 08 (NUMMI) or 11 Tacoma (Texas) did at 50k when I sold it. My wifes 07 4Runner with 130k is dead silent and drives like a new car. The Prius was dead silent on the interior with 80k or so miles.

I have no squeaks or rattles in my 140K Vic, and that is a stiff-riding car.

 

[leemajors]

Yeah, I don't mean to suggest my highly anecdotal experience is canon. But I think small things like interior parts, blower fans, etc. seem to be assembled better or sourced from better third-parties than their US equivalents.

I'm not even suggesting that my US-built Tacomas were rattle-traps, but compared to much higher mileage used Toyotas I have owned, they seem to have more flaws (recalled radios, blower motors, more rattles).

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: leemajors
Originally Posted By: maintenanceMan
I still think many certain items made in Japan have the highest tolerances and build quality. Their engineering isn't always as insightful or creative as other brands but they do a good job of
manufacturing. I've seen this in lots of products, from cars to razor blades(feather is best in the world). To help you compare apples to apples, it might be more insightful to only include items from the actual country of origin. For example, many Japanese name branded vehicles are currently produced in the US. Also, try to compare items in similar price brackets. It should also be mentioned that there is of course lots of variation between different companies, makes, models etc.. so any generalization is just that, a generalization.


I've owned many Toyotas (85 MR2--97 Camry--08 Tacoma--11 Tacoma--07 Prius--00 4Runner). My wife drives an 07 4Runner.

All of these cars have been dead reliable. The MR2 and Camry I drove until their unfortunate neglected deaths.

I will say the build quality of the Japanese manufactured vehicles was definitely superior to the US models.

My 00 4Runner has less interior rattles at 195k than the 08 (NUMMI) or 11 Tacoma (Texas) did at 50k when I sold it. My wifes 07 4Runner with 130k is dead silent and drives like a new car. The Prius was dead silent on the interior with 80k or so miles.

I have no squeaks or rattles in my 140K Vic, and that is a stiff-riding car.

 

[4WD]

Can one import a made in Japan Toyota ?

 

[leemajors]

If they're 25+ years old for JDM models.

But Land Cruisers, 4Runners and (maybe) Priuses are still made there. I know Gen II priuses were.

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Can one import a made in Japan Toyota ?

 

[PimTac]

As I watch videos of US and Japan auto assembly lines, I notice the Japanese lines are much more automated. The US seems to use more people. Of course that might open up another topic but has anyone else noticed this or has better knowledge in this area? This could contribute to tighter and consistent builds.

I watched a Mazda video recently. Their lines have just a few workers and they assemble multiple models of vehicles and different engines on the same lines. I found this interesting.

BMWs So Carolina plant is very automated. Humans are used in very few duties. I guess that's the future.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: leemajors
If they're 25+ years old for JDM models.

But Land Cruisers, 4Runners and (maybe) Priuses are still made there. I know Gen II priuses were.

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Can one import a made in Japan Toyota ?


The Prius was a couple years back...my mother's 2014 had a "J" VIN.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: PimTac
As I watch videos of US and Japan auto assembly lines, I notice the Japanese lines are much more automated. The US seems to use more people. Of course that might open up another topic but has anyone else noticed this or has better knowledge in this area? This could contribute to tighter and consistent builds.

I watched a Mazda video recently. Their lines have just a few workers and they assemble multiple models of vehicles and different engines on the same lines. I found this interesting.

BMWs So Carolina plant is very automated. Humans are used in very few duties. I guess that's the future.


Newer factories. Plenty of big 3 plants are older than any of the employees. (I recall the old Toledo North Jeep plant dated to 1910.)

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: maintenanceMan
I still think many certain items made in Japan have the highest tolerances and build quality. Their engineering isn't always as insightful or creative as other brands but they do a good job of
manufacturing. I've seen this in lots of products, from cars to razor blades(feather is best in the world). To help you compare apples to apples, it might be more insightful to only include items from the actual country of origin. For example, many Japanese name branded vehicles are currently produced in the US. Also, try to compare items in similar price brackets. It should also be mentioned that there is of course lots of variation between different companies, makes, models etc.. so any generalization is just that, a generalization.


Based on the Nissan Juke (made in Japan) that I've seen in the dealership, I'd say country of origin is not really a guaranteed indicator of quality.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: leemajors
Yeah, I don't mean to suggest my highly anecdotal experience is canon. But I think small things like interior parts, blower fans, etc. seem to be assembled better or sourced from better third-parties than their US equivalents.

I'm not even suggesting that my US-built Tacomas were rattle-traps, but compared to much higher mileage used Toyotas I have owned, they seem to have more flaws (recalled radios, blower motors, more rattles).


On my generation of Corolla (build in NUMMI in California in mid 90s, where Tesla is now), some of the US made one uses AC Delco Alternator that has a lot of reliability issues, at the earlier years. They eventually switch to the same Denso units that Japanese made one uses (but made in US by Denso).

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: maintenanceMan
I still think many certain items made in Japan have the highest tolerances and build quality. Their engineering isn't always as insightful or creative as other brands but they do a good job of
manufacturing. I've seen this in lots of products, from cars to razor blades(feather is best in the world). To help you compare apples to apples, it might be more insightful to only include items from the actual country of origin. For example, many Japanese name branded vehicles are currently produced in the US. Also, try to compare items in similar price brackets. It should also be mentioned that there is of course lots of variation between different companies, makes, models etc.. so any generalization is just that, a generalization.


Based on the Nissan Juke (made in Japan) that I've seen in the dealership, I'd say country of origin is not really a guaranteed indicator of quality.


Was thinking the same thing about the Yaris my buddy had as a rental.